:baby_symbol: Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit
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@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:
"How do you do that sort of math in your head and so quickly?
“Although I pretend to like retard units, I just use decimal feet because only a lobotomy patient would think feet and inches are a good combination.”
“Why not work exclusively with metres, then?”
“If we saved that much time and expense, people would think we’re doing a substandard job.”
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@Zerosquare said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:All this talk about new math, and none of you have mentioned Tom Lehrer?
https://youtu.be/UIKGV2cTgqAGuys, you disappoint me.
(
: yes, the new math he's mentioning is probably not the same as today's new math.)It's actually somewhat similar, in the "pig returns to its vomit" sense. Education is full of fads; they come and go. This is one that's come and gone before at least once. And was moronic when it happened the first time; now it's just painful.
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@kazitor said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit: "How do you do that sort of math in your head and so quickly? “Although I pretend to like retard units, I just use decimal feet because only a lobotomy patient would think feet and inches are a good combination.”
“Why not work exclusively with metres, then?”
“If we saved that much time and expense, people would think we’re doing a substandard job.”Engineers in the US use decimal feet. I've opined on this before. It works for us for now.
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Just to resurrect that thing one last time (hey, you guys all got to pile up while I was sleeping!).
I'm still not really convinced by much of the arguments (even though I acknowledge that some of you are (were) education professionals and thus know more on the topic than I do). Because, as I already said, these are the same arguments that come out every time anything changes in education, good or bad. It's almost like teachers, like everyone else, don't like their cheese moved, and don't like being told that what they did until now wasn't the Right Way, especially when the Right Way comes from higher-ups more or less detached from every day work and loaded with all sorts of
things. I'm waiting for a statement from Pikachu to insert here.What makes me double-plus unconvinced is that all I can see from these "new maths" is basically stuff that we've been doing in France for 30+ years and while here as well everybody
about school reforms, on the whole I don't think we've come back in all that time to "no word problems" and "rote memorisation is everything" (yes, yes, I'm mis-characterising the "new maths" stuff, I know, keep your high horses in their stables). And we did have quite a few major education reforms in between (with their own shares of 
, and some of them unanimously decried as bad), so it's not like nothing has changed. So while I have no issue accepting your views that the implementation of that reform may be wrong, I still am very much doubtful about the overall (lack of) value of the reform itself. Basically, at this point, I'm going 
and "let them deal with it."The "word problem" thing strikes a particular chord in that register, because as I said word problems have been the basis of French primary school for centuries so really it's hard for me to see them as a new thing, nor as something that can't be working. Again, ideal vs. implementation, I get it, but again, we've been implementing that for more than a century so there's only so far my sympathy can go.
Tl;dr: I've learnt what "new maths" is, I think it's mostly not a big deal, you think otherwise, neither of us will convince the other. Funny kids stuff?
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@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@kazitor said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit: "How do you do that sort of math in your head and so quickly? “Although I pretend to like retard units, I just use decimal feet because only a lobotomy patient would think feet and inches are a good combination.”
“Why not work exclusively with metres, then?”
“If we saved that much time and expense, people would think we’re doing a substandard job.”Engineers in the US use decimal feet. I've opined on this before. It works for us for now.
Makes sense. There are five toes on every foot, so ten total for the usual number of feet and toes.
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@remi Dude, maybe keep your overly broad generalizations in check, will you? Because that's shitty arguing, going "every time" and "always" because now I'll demand from you that you show evidence that it is indeed every time and always and everyone.
Also, I severely doubt that you did word problems in maths without having had to learn the multiplication tables.
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@Rhywden said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@remi Dude, maybe keep your overly broad generalizations in check, will you?
Yeah, 'cause of course my generalisations are bad, but other people's generalisations like "every skill you want to learn requires repetition and training" are OK.
:sarkmark:Also, I severely doubt that you did word problems in maths without having had to learn the multiplication tables.
The über-
answer is that you're wrong because we did word problems with additions before learning multiplication.As for multiplication word problems, well, I also severely doubt we did them before learning the tables. Then again, I also severely doubt that this is what "new maths" is saying teachers should do, so I'm not sure that has anything to do with reality.
Let's stick to that, OK?
Tl;dr: I've learnt what "new maths" is, I think it's mostly not a big deal, you think otherwise, neither of us will convince the other. Funny kids stuff?
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@remi I'm not even sure what you're arguing about here. Let's quote Gordon Ramsey:
You've lost the plot.
I'd also like to remind you that both me and @Benjamin-Hall do have a background in education so maybe, just maybe, don't so blithely scoff at our experience, yes?
There's nothing worse than someone going: "Oh, I went to school for x years so I know exactly what teachers have to do!" Indeed. Next up: Patients with pacemakers will from now on help out with heart surgery.
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@Rhywden said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:I'm not even sure what you're arguing about here.
I do not have any idea what you are arguing about. Probably not "new maths" since you neither mentioned nor practiced it.
Kidzz stuff guyzz!!eleven!
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@remi said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@izzion said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:The main problem I've seen getting memed on is when a parent who isn't very good with word problems has to try to help the kid with the homework
Re-reading your post (after having posted my answer, of course, what else did you expect?
), there's one thing that comes to mind: aren't most US exams (even for lower levels?) mostly made of multiple-choice questions? If so, switching to word problems would probably be a significant change.Standardized exams are, but not regular in class stuff for math. And many multiple choice questions are still word problems. Some of the wrong choices are typically based on common mistakes.
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@remi said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:So frankly, a math course that teaches that and not just x*y... I don't even see how that's contentious.
It isn't. I'm not aware of anyone who has said it is.
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@remi said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:for multiplication word problems, well, I also severely doubt we did them before learning the tables. Then again, I also severely doubt that this is what "new maths" is saying teachers should do, so I'm not sure that has anything to do with reality.
The "new math" says that no one should ever learn the multiplication tables. At all. Period. Because that's drilling and drilling is bad. In fact, any kind of memory work is bad. Kids are supposed to discover them for themselves, and eventually learn it (or not) via the algorithms. But never memorize anything.
So yes, the new math explicitly says to do multiplication word problems before learning the tables. It introduces multiplication via word problems.
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@remi said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:The "word problem" thing strikes a particular chord in that register, because as I said word problems have been the basis of French primary school for centuries so really it's hard for me to see them as a new thing, nor as something that can't be working.
Ditto for America. Did someone here say that word problems were new or something? I don't recall that but didn't closely read all walls that were posted so maybe I missed it.
The new retardery is retarded for regular math problems that are just numbers and symbols.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:The "new math" says that no one should ever learn the multiplication tables. At all. Period.
That is not what Google says ("common core multiplication tables"). You may still be right and all of Google's result that mention tables wrong and/or biased (and it's obvious from any search with "common core" that this is a highly politicised issue, so even I can see that most results are visibly biased one way or the other!), and I'm not saying that just to placate you. But the more this goes, the less I'm trusting what I'm reading here.
(for comparisons, in France we've always learnt multiplication tables in, uh, the equivalent of 2nd grade up to x5 and 3rd grade for x10)
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@remi said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@Benjamin-Hall said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:The "new math" says that no one should ever learn the multiplication tables. At all. Period.
That is not what Google says ("common core multiplication tables"). You may still be right and all of Google's result that mention tables wrong and/or biased (and it's obvious from any search with "common core" that this is a highly politicised issue, so even I can see that most results are visibly biased one way or the other!), and I'm not saying that just to placate you. But the more this goes, the less I'm trusting what I'm reading here.
(for comparisons, in France we've always learnt multiplication tables in, uh, the equivalent of 2nd grade up to x5 and 3rd grade for x10)
Common core and the "new new math" aren't identical. Common core was slightly less retarded. The strong push now is that any kind of memory work is BAD.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:Common core and the "new new math" aren't identical.
Hey, stop
OK, this is the first time anyone mentions "new new math." I assumed until now that there were The Good'Ol Math Of Our Forefathers (
not included, but there's plenty in here already) and "new math" and that new math == common core. Now if you're talking about something that isn't what I see when I search for "common core" then this is different.(ETA: while you answered I found an official source for common core which clearly states (3.OA.C.7) that "By the end of Grade 3, know from memory all products of two one-digit numbers" i.e. multiplication tables up to 9 (10 is trivial at this point), which is what we've always had in France as well, so again, I don't see any big difference here)
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@remi said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@Benjamin-Hall said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:Common core and the "new new math" aren't identical.
Hey, stop
OK, this is the first time anyone mentions "new new math." I assumed until now that there were The Good'Ol Math Of Our Forefathers (
not included, but there's plenty in here already) and "new math" and that new math == common core. Now if you're talking about something that isn't what I see when I search for "common core" then this is different.Someone already linked the Tom Lehrer song from when stuff changed in the 60s(?). But yeah, common core didn't last terribly long (my state never adopted it) but there have been other new math fads, some of which my kids got exposed to over the last 15 years or so.
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I showed metrics at the start showing the US is performing worse on average than it was before we started common core (common core wasn't just math, it is just the most complained about, it was a switch across the board in how things were taught). So please continue on how this is all in our head and we just don't like change. It is really convincing me.
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@remi right. "New math" was officially what they called the 70s version. Then we did something else, then common core, now there's a new standard that people in this thread were calling "new math". When really it has some other official name.
And be careful of looking at the standards for these things--it says they're supposed to know those, but the actual curriculum promises to do so without actually learning them explicitly. Education standards are even more loosely complied with than the HTML standards when ie6 was the big thing. Lotsa lip service, but actual practice and training is diametrically opposite.
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@Benjamin-Hall Thankfully, here in Germany a school's teachers can decide for themselves how to best implement the mandated curriculum. It also gives you freedom on how to approach a specific topic. So if you think that topic A is very well suited for an experimental discovery whereas subject B is better served with a lecture-style lesson, then you're free to do so.
You're also allowed to go beyond the curriculum if there's time for it. There are a few nonsensical things in there - can't be bothered to look them up but it was something with the keywords you're supposed to cover. As we have basic and advanced courses for several subjects (advanced courses get more lesson time - 5 hours per week versus 3 hours per week), the curriculum states that, for example, a basic math course doesn't need to cover multiplication of rectangual matrices just square ones (whereas the advanced course has to). Made up example.
So, the basic course gets the keyword square matrix and the advanced course gets rectangular matrix on top.
And, as I said, sometimes they miss out. Like (making up an example once again), giving the basic course the keyword double slit but only the advanced course gets constructive interference.
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@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:set a pipe laser to in my head
seems dangerous
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@sockpuppet7 just don't stare directly at it.
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YouTube Vlogger Ruby Franke Charged With Six Counts of Felony Child Abuse
Ruby Franke was charged with child abuse alongside her business partner Jodi Hildebrandt after her children were found with lacerations on their extremities.
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My kid's schools use an app to facilitate communication between parents and teachers. There is one major flaw with it though. You cannot opt out of the bullshit communications that they are constantly sending out. The schools treat it like those annoying people at offices do, sending out emails about shit that most people don't care about to the
office@initrode.comdistribution list.To make matters even worse, this year my kids are in separate schools, so I get bullshit messages from two different schools. They are in elementary and middle school, yet I got two different messages about homecoming festivities that I could not give less of a shit about. At very least 95% of it is nonsense. It is a minimum of 20:1 on the wrong side of signal to noise ratio.
Let me reiterate, there is no way to opt out of the noise. It is almost like they wanted to do so. There are options in the user menu, but I can either opt in to all of it or get nothing. I would even be fine with them sending me the bullshit but at least let me opt out of the notifications for the bullshit messages and only get notified for messages from my kid's teachers. Nope, either get notified for everything or get nothing.
To make matters worse I have had this happen several times:
"I never got notified for that."
"You didn't? We sent out a message about it."
"I didn't get it."
"It was in the message about (unrelated bullshit that no one reads)."
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@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:My kid's schools use an app to facilitate communication between parents and teachers. There is one major flaw with it though. You cannot opt out of the bullshit communications that they are constantly sending out. The schools treat it like those annoying people at offices do, sending out emails about shit that most people don't care about to the
office@initrode.comdistribution list.To make matters even worse, this year my kids are in separate schools, so I get bullshit messages from two different schools. They are in elementary and middle school, yet I got two different messages about homecoming festivities that I could not give less of a shit about. At very least 95% of it is nonsense. It is a minimum of 20:1 on the wrong side of signal to noise ratio.
Let me reiterate, there is no way to opt out of the noise. It is almost like they wanted to do so. There are options in the user menu, but I can either opt in to all of it or get nothing. I would even be fine with them sending me the bullshit but at least let me opt out of the notifications for the bullshit messages and only get notified for messages from my kid's teachers. Nope, either get notified for everything or get nothing.
To make matters worse I have had this happen several times:
"I never got notified for that."
"You didn't? We sent out a message about it."
"I didn't get it."
"It was in the message about (unrelated bullshit that no one reads)."At least they don't also do phishing tests on that app
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@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:that I could not give less of a shit about
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@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:To make matters worse I have had this happen several times:
"I never got notified for that."
"You didn't? We sent out a message about it."
"I didn't get it."
"It was in the message about (unrelated bullshit that no one reads)."I've had this happen to me several times at work by some asshole that doesn't understand the difference between the To: line and the CC: line.
I thought about crossposting this into the
Status Thread, but then I remembered that the guy who does this acts like a giant baby all the time and figured this was close enough.
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@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:To make matters worse I have had this happen several times:
"I never got notified for that."
"You didn't? We sent out a message about it."
"I didn't get it."
"It was in the message about (unrelated bullshit that no one reads)."
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Our youngest is going to be in his school's second grade play of "Charlotte's Web". One of the parts that he is to play is to be one of the baby spiders at the end. We go looking for costume ideas.
I find the perfect costume
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@boomzilla said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@Polygeekery said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:To make matters worse I have had this happen several times:
"I never got notified for that."
"You didn't? We sent out a message about it."
"I didn't get it."
"It was in the message about (unrelated bullshit that no one reads)."
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@error said in The Cat Status Thread:
Crudely translated joke:
Teacher complains to Vova's father:
- Your son painted a fly on my desk and I beat my whole arm numb trying to swat it.
- Oh, but that's nothing! Just a couple days ago he painted a crocodile in the bathroom and I jumped right out through the painted door.
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@boomzilla From what I understand (since I've never had kids), that should have been the perfect marketing!
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@dcon said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:@boomzilla From what I understand (since I've never had kids), that should have been the perfect marketing!
Accurate marketing is not always good marketing.
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@HardwareGeek Not always here having the meaning of pretty much never
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@boomzilla said in
Parenting advice - you're gonna get hit:A few years back, I had my sister and her kids over for dinner, and I'd made pea soup.
One of the kids was opposed to soup on general principles and wouldn't touch it.
Now, proper Dutch pea soup barely qualifies as a liquid.
So we told her we'd been mistaken and it was actually pea puree.
She ate it all without complaints. Didn't ask for seconds, but getting that one to finish her plate in the first place for anything but fries was an accomplishment.
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