WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else
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@remi said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It feels like every version of Windows is first hated
Every other version, perhaps.
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@remi the thing is, Win10 bucked that trend in a nasty way. Yes, it wasn’t loved at first and got grudgingly accepted. 1809 and 1903 were decent enough builds.
But it’s the newer stuff, the Win11 stuff, the Copilot stuff, the random things consuming 100% CPU stuff, the telemetry stuff getting worse, that has eroded that feeling.
I’m not particularly wanting to cling onto Win10 at this point, not like I did with Win7 or XP the ways we did before. I’m positive that unless 12 comes out and undoes a significant amount of the fucktacular bullshit, Win10 will be the last version of Windows for me.
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the Win11 stuff
Windows 11 is just Windows 10 without the ability to put the taskbar in weird places
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the Copilot stuff
Can be turned off.
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the telemetry stuff getting worse
Can be turned off on Pro at least.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the Copilot stuff
Can be turned off.
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the telemetry stuff getting worse
Can be turned off on Pro at least.
I've got a bunch of things blocked in my router that at least once upon a time blocked strange calls windows was making. I'd expect windows to have started calling new strange endpoints in the years since then.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the Copilot stuff
Can be turned off.
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the telemetry stuff getting worse
Can be turned off on Pro at least.
Is that why on my Pro setup, the fucking telemetry task re-enabled itself despite being disabled in the services list?
I’m sure it’s possible with a registry hack but disabling a service should leave it disabled.
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@Arantor turn it off using Group Policy, the way it's intended to be done on Pro.
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Win10 will be the last version of Windows for me.
Like they promised!
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the Win11 stuff
Windows 11 is just Windows 10 without the ability to put the taskbar in weird places
Which is exactly the part of Windows 11 that will significantly hamper my ability to do remote work.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the telemetry stuff getting worse
Can be turned off on Pro at least.
That reminds me a lot of . Always insisted that you can just turn that off, then when the next update re-eanabled that shit said that you didn't use the "official" registry hack to disable it, but some other "inofficial" registry hack instead.
I haven't personally looked into this much, but I'm quite convinced that if any of this were true, they'd just have a fucking official button in the UI that turns it off and keeps it turned off, without resetting or adding new exceptions or only applying to a small part of that garbage. Turn telemetry off, all of it, forever. No excuses.
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the thing is, Win10 bucked that trend in a nasty way.
Au contraire, I think it's pretty much following the trend, as you illustrate since you're now clinging to it. That you do that because of the shittiness of Win11 rather than any love of Win10 doesn't change that.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the Win11 stuff
Windows 11 is just Windows 10 without the ability to put the taskbar in weird places
Windows 11 is just a brand name, like "XP" and "Vista".
Windows 11 is still just Windows 10.
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the telemetry stuff getting worse
Can be turned off on Pro at least.
That reminds me a lot of . Always insisted that you can just turn that off, then when the next update re-eanabled that shit said that you didn't use the "official" registry hack to disable it, but some other "inofficial" registry hack instead.
He's not entirely wrong about if you do it a way that Microsoft don't support then it's not guaranteed to stay that way.
I haven't personally looked into this much, but I'm quite convinced that if any of this were true, they'd just have a fucking official button in the UI that turns it off and keeps it turned off, without resetting or adding new exceptions or only applying to a small part of that garbage. Turn telemetry off, all of it, forever. No excuses.
There is a button that turns some of it off. Microsoft obviously don't want it off, but they know that business customers want it off so the way to turn it off completely is via Group Policy which isn't available on Home.
If you do it via Group Policy it does stay off. It not only stays off through updates but it stays off through upgrading from one version to another.
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@remi said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the thing is, Win10 bucked that trend in a nasty way.
Au contraire, I think it's pretty much following the trend, as you illustrate since you're now clinging to it. That you do that because of the shittiness of Win11 rather than any love of Win10 doesn't change that.
No, I’m looking at my options a full year before EOL.
What I have right now is usable. Moving to anything, regardless of what it is, even Win11, is more effort than doing nothing.
Therefore I am using the window before EOL to assess if new options that are more desirable are coming (Win12 not being a shitshow) or alternatives (moving to Linux).
I would hardly describe planning a move a year before the deadline as “clinging to it”.
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@Arantor Right.
So next you're going to get angry at being forced to stick to Win10, before telling yourself that maybe you can live with it if only you can fix a few things, before falling in a deep sadness about your lost productivity, and finally saying that after all Win10 isn't that bad.
Filed under: the five stages of Windows
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@remi nope, because I know that Win10 stopped being good a couple of years ago with its incremental changes that no one needed, and it’s mostly that I’ve put up with it thus far.
I’m not angry about the “forced to stick” because I chose to adopt Win10 at the time rather than be too sad about the loss of Win7, because actually I didn’t have that much dislike or frustration. The only big drama I had until more recently was that 1803 (or 1809?) figure out how to install itself correctly because my machine had a slightly weird drive setup, and this was a problem other folks experienced with the same model of laptop that I had, but a manual reinstall solved it.
But Win10 2019 feels a lot less shitty to me than Win10 2024 does and that’s the train I’m now looking how to get off in the least worst fashion. If Win10 had remained how it was, I would be angry and sad about moving on but MS made that decision quite easy that I need to get off the Win10 train.
The only question is where, and it’s entirely possible the next iteration will be something Linuxy.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If you do it via Group Policy it does stay off. It not only stays off through updates but it stays off through upgrading from one version to another.
Just looked, unless the comment is lying...
Diagnostic data off (not recommended). Using this value, no diagnostic data is sent from the device. This value is only supported on Enterprise, Education, and Server editions.
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
unless 12 comes out and undoes a significant amount of the fucktacular bullshit
What are the chances of Microsoft doing that?
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
if you do it a way that Microsoft don't support then it's not guaranteed to stay that way.
If you do it in a way that Microsoft does support, it's still not guaranteed to stay that way. At least I don't trust any such guarantees from Microsoft.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
unless 12 comes out and undoes a significant amount of the fucktacular bullshit
What are the chances of Microsoft doing that?
Slim to fuck all but I was surprised by the (quiet) announcement of “we’re going back to a 3 year cadence” instead of this rolling shitshow they initially promised, so I figure if that’s the case it’s theoretically possible 12 won’t be a disaster.
All signs and portents suggest the announcement in the summer, release in the autumn. Plenty of time for me to learn if it’s a shitshow and to continue preparation for migrating to Linux if so.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
unless 12 comes out and undoes a significant amount of the fucktacular bullshit
What are the chances of Microsoft doing that?
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
if you do it a way that Microsoft don't support then it's not guaranteed to stay that way.
If you do it in a way that Microsoft does support, it's still not guaranteed to stay that way. At least I don't trust any such guarantees from Microsoft.
One way is guaranteed until it isn't, the other just isn't guaranteed.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If you do it in a way that Microsoft does support, it's still not guaranteed to stay that way. At least I don't trust any such guarantees from Microsoft.
You know how they say not to attribute to malice what can be more easily explained by incompetence?
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
guaranteed until it isn't
You forgot these:
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@dcon said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
If you do it via Group Policy it does stay off. It not only stays off through updates but it stays off through upgrading from one version to another.
Just looked, unless the comment is lying...
Diagnostic data off (not recommended). Using this value, no diagnostic data is sent from the device. This value is only supported on Enterprise, Education, and Server editions.
Fuckers. It did used to be supported on Pro, although the process still doesn't run.
It does also seem to result in the Settings page both saying it's prevented from sending the data and that it's sending it.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
the Settings page both saying it's preventing from sending the data and that it's sending it.
Microsoft is a tiny company; they're trying the best they can.
Filed under: Very trying
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
... I'm quite convinced that if any of this were true, they'd just have a fucking official button in the UI that turns it off and keeps it turned off, without resetting or adding new exceptions or only applying to a small part of that garbage. Turn telemetry off, all of it, forever. No excuses.
You don't seem to fully comprehend the insanity that is rampant in Windows.
What you have described is what SHOULD exist. Everyone using Windows wants it and agrees that it should exist.
But it doesn't exist, and probably never will because almost everything that Microsoft has done, post-Windows 7, has been ridiculous, absurd, contradictory, pointless and/or just outright stupid.
For some unknown Microsoft is completely and absolutely dedicated to making Windows as terrible as possible. And doing a damn fine job of it.
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@Zecc, @Gern_Blaanston
It’s quite clearly malice, not incompetence.
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@Gern_Blaanston said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
For some unknown Microsoft is completely and absolutely dedicated to making Windows as terrible as possible. And doing a damn fine job of it.
They have been doing it since November 1985, so they have a lot of experience doing it
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@topspin said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zecc, @Gern_Blaanston
It’s quite clearly malice, not incompetence.Are you telling us Microsoft is competent? In 2024??
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@Zecc Hanlon’s Razor doesn’t cover competent, merely differentiates malice and incompetence.
Edge cases: competently malicious, maliciously competent, incompetently malicious, maliciously incompetent.
A non-zero number of these descriptors applies to Microsoft at this time. Which one(s) are an exercise in the reader’s certain point of view.
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@Arantor said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
exercise
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@DogsB said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
It's getting so bad that Linux desktop usage is seeing a consistent uptick
There's even a Linux for you!
UwUntu – The Best WeaboOS
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And so it starts. A mysterious "Campaign Manager" program started — but at least it didn't steal focus, I'll give them that — and when I focused it it shows this full screen.
I'm glad they think this computer isn't supported. At least I won't get any surprise upgrades.
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Status: Thanks to Group Policy, this is a thing.
Apparently, Crowdstrike is not (allowed?) to be installed on Windows Servers, and by policy Defender is not allowed to run.
What !
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@Zecc said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I'm glad they think this computer isn't supported. At least I won't get any surprise upgrades.
Surprise! Surprise! It is supported! And we've just provided you with the Greatest Version of Windows. Enjoy!
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@BernieTheBernie said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@Zecc said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I'm glad they think this computer isn't supported. At least I won't get any surprise upgrades.
Surprise! Surprise! It is supported! And we've just provided you with the Greatest Version of Windows. Enjoy!
Releasing in 2025… Windows_Final_Updated_v2!
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@DogsB said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Later this month, Microsoft will showcase new AI features for Windows 11, which could become the first solid reason to leave Windows 10 behind.
Nope Even more reason to avoid Windows 11.
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Why are Alt and Cmd the same key?
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@loopback0 In particular, why is it Alt | Cmd instead of Alt | Ctrl?
Are they adding the Copilot key to MacOS keyboards?
Except those have Option instead of Alt.
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@Zecc then what would you then map the MacOS “control” key to?
Really it should be control/ctrl, alt/option, Windows/Cmd as the mappings based on typical key placement.
I couldn’t quickly find (I tried 1 Google search then had to go to a meeting) a screenshot of the keyboard layout but it definitely looks like it wants to be a hybrid keyboard for both Mac and PC which is a bad idea on levels.
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@loopback0 said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
Why are Alt and Cmd the same key?
Presumably because the Mac folks would want the Command key to be next to the Space Bar, like on a Mac-specific keyboard. Those keyboards have Windows and Option on the same keycap as well. I don't know whether that's a feature of the keyboard or just cosmetic and you have to change the MacOS Keyboard Modifier Preferences to switch them around. (The typical assignment is Windows = Command, Alt = Option.)
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@HardwareGeek said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
I initially misread the text as "by simply clicking the deprecated Copilot AI shortcut key" and thought
Yeah .... that sounds like something Microsoft would do.
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@Gern_Blaanston said in WTF is happening with Windows 10? And nothing else:
deprecated Copilot
Yeah .... that sounds like something Microsoft
wshould do.