Empty Stadium
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As a straight white western male, I'm playing life on easy. It's worth remembering that occasionally and trying to think critically about things I take for granted
Right, but when you ask someone who isn't playing life on the easy about their experiences, it doesn't reflect poorly on you when they tell you that you're the enemy and couldn't possibly understand.
Not that they're obligated to answer your questions, but that's a separate issue.
I remember when Eric Holder (now thankfully former Attorney General of the US) said that we were a nation of cowards who needed to have a conversation on race, I thought he was full of shit on the coward bit, but now it's obvious that he was correct in a different way than what he meant.
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People with power need to earn respect.
That's true, but there's a huge difference between having genuine respect and actively displaying contempt for them.
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it doesn't reflect poorly on you when they tell you that you're the enemy and couldn't possibly understand.
Depends how you asked the question. I've had depression in the past. If someone had "asked me about my experiences" by asking why I didn't just get over myself and stop moping around, I may well have assumed they weren't open to actually learning about how it felt and told them to fuck off, or that not having experienced depression they didn't understand the difference between a genuine mental illness and feeling a bit sad.
There may be something similar in some of the "you wouldn't understand, you're not black" responses
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Depends how you asked the question.
Always a factor, of course.
told them to fuck off
"Acceptable." But I think not quite the same thing.
...or that not having experienced depression they didn't understand the difference between a genuine mental illness and feeling a bit sad.
I'm going to quibble and say that it's still different. You're saying they don't understand, not that they couldn't possibly.
There may be something similar in some of the "you wouldn't understand, you're not black" responses
It's certainly possible. I didn't witness the conversations that @mott555 did. Still, I've seen that type of thing, and IME, it was usually the sort of person who claims that someone simply can't be racist because they're not white. So I've probably already written them off as stupid and am probably just hanging around to troll or blow off steam.
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the sort of person who claims that someone simply can't be racist because they're not white. So I've probably already written them off as stupid and am probably just hanging around to troll or blow off steam.
In that case, you're perfectly justified. I have tried to understand the "only white people can be racist" argument, but I disagree with it
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There's also probably the scary thought that the streets are littered with people at any particular time who's ONLY motivation for not just smashing windows and taking what they want is the presence of police.
And when they know, 100% certain, that the police are tied-up elsewhere and unlikely to catch them, that's when the looting happens.
In this case, the police were tied-up with the protest. If the police had all come down with a nasty flu on the same day, likely the exact same smash-and-grabs would be happening.
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I still confused about how empathy matters here. Actions and consequences are what matter.
I say "rioting and looting are counter-productive" and I'm told "You're not black so you wouldn't understand".
These destructive behaviors are only making the dis-privileged more dis-privileged. And since we feel like we can't have valid opinions about it, nothing gets done to improve the situation.
I have the privilege of living in a non-rioting part of town because my neighbors and I don't riot. If we were poor and frustrated, we might really want to, but it would only hurt our community more.
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Basically, the apparent response from everybody was
Yeah, that was the sense I got when reading the quotes from the police officials -- and that was almost enough to make me smile. Somebody finally gets it regarding badge abuse!
I once saw a kid riding his bike in the median left turn lane, waiving cars around him, then turning through the center of the intersection.
Dumb as shit.
I yell at him, "You need to be on the side of the road"
"I can ride my bike where ever I want."
"I'm saying this because I don't want you to get hurt."
"Man, fuck you."
It then crossed my mind that this type of person could pose a threat to me at this point, because I disrespected him.
And I would not at all be surprised by him responding in the same way to "Sir, please ride your bicycle on the shoulder so that you don't wind up with a face-full of oncoming car..."
Also -- which way did he turn? If he made a right turn from the center left turn lane, then he's a total idiot regarding traffic...and the same kind of person that makes me pay more attention to traffic than pedestrians these days.
Non-cops need to find the good cops and say, "We will support you."
Cops need to find the good non-cops and say, "We will support you."
And both these groups need to work together to route out the bad weeds on both sides.
QFT -- no freakin kidding! What's going on right now makes life harder for everyone.Being dismissive is a goal unto itself. Which is identity politics, which is, we will censor you because we want to control the verbage, narrative, and boundaries of discussion. And we don't want to be held accountable for it.
It means. I want to be able to say whatever the fuck I want, and not be criticized on it. I only want to have responses from people who are going to circle-jerk with me.
My problem is people who refuse to point their criticisms...they just rely on labels and censorship, instead of this thing we were all given called "grey matter". sighs heavilyYou missed one. Good cops need to find non-good cops and say "GTFO". Until people feel like somebody is protecting them from the bad cops, they will continue to be pissed off and scared.
That too, if nothing because they're making the jobs of the good cops harder.And where do we get the idea that he's a racist? No one mentioned race, they were talking about looting and rioting being counter productive to protesting police brutality. It doesn't matter who's doing the rioting.
Agreed -- looting and rioting has no causative connections with skin color!The person who makes such claim is the racist.
It's also a disturbing claim on another level: If not being a member of a group prevents one from understanding that's group's concerns, how are we ever going to have a society that is both harmonious and diverse?
"You aren't black so you can't understand it!"
"You aren't female so you can't understand it!"
"You aren't muslim so you can't understand it!"
"You aren't disabled so you can't understand it!"
QFT! It's worse when you are trying to understand another group's concerns, but can't find a common language to use for that task!In absolute terms like that, these are obviously wrong, but they come from the idea that being privileged blinds you to what it's like to be a member of a disadvantaged group. I'm not disabled, so there's only so much empathy and understanding I can have as to what it's like to be in a wheelchair, and if I don't specifically think about what difficulties disabled people face (e.g. when designing something), I'm likely to miss something easy I could do to make their lives easier.
Agreed in some regards -- disability is where it's probably a) the toughest (especially for those whose disabilities aren't visible) and b) needed the absolute most. Thankfully, it's not too hard to see what Universal Access brings for the rest of us...Right, but when you ask someone who isn't playing life on the easy about their experiences, it doesn't reflect poorly on you when they tell you that you're the enemy and couldn't possibly understand.
Yeah -- for all the problems I have talking with people who aren't of my 1-in-every-so-often kith and kin, I at least try to explain to them what's up when issues start to crop up, instead of going "you are ze enemy! KILL CRUSH DESTROY!" or the SJWified versions of the same.I remember when Eric Holder (now thankfully former Attorney General of the US) said that we were a nation of cowards who needed to have a conversation on race, I thought he was full of shit on the coward bit, but now it's obvious that he was correct in a different way than what he meant.
Sadly, he's right...we are cowering in fear of both sides on the race discussion; the far-right uses xenophobia as a weapon, while the far-left uses political correctness in much the same way. What are us folks caught in No Man's Land supposed to do?
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the far-right uses xenophobia as a weapon, while the far-left uses political correctness in much the same way
I don't think that's exactly true. The xenophobes would love to yell and argue and whatnot with you, but the political correctness people will try to shame you into shutting up or your employer, etc, to shun you.
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I don't think that's exactly true. The xenophobes would love to yell and argue and whatnot with you, but the political correctness people will try to shame you into shutting up or your employer, etc, to shun you.
You're probably right in the details -- the two weapons have different operating principles; nonetheless, they are just as much weapons...
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You're probably right in the details -- the two weapons have different operating principles; nonetheless, they are just as much weapons...
Right...but in the context of "having a conversation," trying to express your opinion and trying to suppress others are very different things.
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Right...but in the context of "having a conversation," trying to express your opinion and trying to suppress others are very different things.
Hmmm... seems like it's more like one side is refusing to genuinely listen and the other is refusing to genuinely speak. Both are necessary from both sides to have a "conversation".
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Possibly.
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Assholes who use it as an excuse to loot Doritos are just assholes.
Can we, as a species, make an agreement to not be an asshole for non-humor-related purposes?
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Can we, as a species, make an agreement to not be an asshole for non-humor-related purposes?
We as a forum can't even manage that. So I'm guessing not.
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On a lighter note...
The O's defeated the ChiSox 8-2, sweeping the 1-game series.
They rescheduled the two missed games into a double-header in May on a previously open date - which leads me to believe that they played this game because they can't schedule triple-headers.
The O's travel to Tampa/St.Pete to play as the home team against the Rays - apparently the O's, as the home team get the gate receipts. They'll take in 3x5000 tickets folks vs. 3x45,000 tickets. I know, FWP, but a curious detail.
and I'm all about curious little details
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More seriously...
Apparently the city was calm again last night.
And they sprung 100 folk after 48 hours without charges, which is another perennial problem nagging at the residents.
IMO - the root cause of this is more one of lack of competence¹ in basic management... see comments about Central Booking above. (Yes, I'm sure it does get abused too...)¹As distinct from incompetence - this includes all causes: lack of funds, somebody took the funds, policies chosen for external reasons, etc.
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Can we, as a species, form a consensus about what exactly an "asshole" is?
Some people actually believe that looting junk food is a reasonable behavior.
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Some people actually believe that
looting junk foodwriting Free Software is a reasonable behavior.
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On a lighter note...
The O's defeated the ChiSox 8-2, sweeping the 1-game series.
They rescheduled the two missed games into a double-header in May on a previously open date - which leads me to believe that they played this game because they can't schedule triple-headers.
The O's travel to Tampa/St.Pete to play as the home team against the Rays - apparently the O's, as the home team get the gate receipts. They'll take in 3x5000 tickets folks vs. 3x45,000 tickets. I know, FWP, but a curious detail.
<small> and I'm all about curious little details </small>
It's the beginning of the season; if both teams already can't reschedule 3 games at this point, baseball has bigger problems.
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Passport control?
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Can we, as a species, form a consensus about what exactly an "asshole" is?
Google image search ought to clear that up for you pretty quickly. If you're still confused, I recommend sitting in on a high school anatomy class.
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It's also a disturbing claim on another level: If not being a member of a group prevents one from understanding that's group's concerns, how are we ever going to have a society that is both harmonious and diverse?
If you're not a white man, you can't understand it. It being why I think your idea is wrong based on factual evidence.
Of course, that statement would be racist, because you can understand it, because I'm talking with this other black guy who's a cop who understands it. And he's wondering why you're throwing rocks at him.
Now do you see how identity politics is racist?
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The police have to make a bold first move before they can expect anything in return
You do understand that the majority of cops have already
People with power need to earn respect.
gotten past this point.
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Which is why the people are standing in front of them now. See, I was right.
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OMG so much yes.
Can I like more than once?
This will do more than even the peaceful protestors will do.
When the good cops feel support from the good people, we will be able to route out the bad ones on both sides.
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no causative connections with skin color!
It's not even poverty. Statistically, It's whether or not they had support from more than one surrogate/real parent.
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the two weapons have different operating principles
Not really.
Take a few quotes from neo-nazis and feminazis.
Blank out any mention of what specific group they don't like.
Compare the quotes.
It's like a fucking mirror.
Which is what I've always said, when looking at the political diamond the political extremes on left and right become closer together and touch somewhere behind the diamond in the fourth dimension.
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see comments about Central Booking above
Maybe because local facilities can't manage to support the influx of arrests. Or that they can't staff the distributed facilities with officers capable of defending them.
I mean could you imagine if some far right anti-looters managed to break into one of the distributed facilities and harm the jailed? And that's only the most ridiculous possibility.
I'm sure that reasonable solutions are rather limited.
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Take a few quotes from neo-nazis and feminazis....It's like a fucking mirror.
You didn't provide any examples, but from my memory, it's not a mirror at all. The former are very up front about how they hate something. The latter (in public statements) are more likely to frame the object of their hate as somehow being evil or hating something they hold dear.
One is just spouting their irrationality, the other is spouting their rationalizations. I think it's an important difference in how they're both wrong.
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Now do you see how identity politics is racist?
I can't possibly be racist - I'm calling someone else racist.
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You didn't provide any examples
http://www.reddit.com/r/StormfrontorSJW/
There's a few that have some indicators that you can reasonably determine a guess.
But the amount of, proposed aggravated assaults, defamations, proposed property destruction are pretty equally represented on both sides.
With a growing list of bomb and death threats from the SJW, the difference between the behavior of the two groups is shrinking.
It's clear that hate has one tactic, no matter why or who you hate.
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I can't possibly be racist - I'm applying the racist attribute to everyone of a certain race, because I hate them.
FTFY
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http://www.reddit.com/r/StormfrontorSJW/
It's possible (popular opinion notwithstanding) I'm not up on current trends in neo-nazism. Not that you can tell what anything is there, since a bot seems to wipe out all the "solution" information. Or my reddit ignorance is showing.
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Statistically, It's whether or not they had support from more than one surrogate/real parent.
Yeah -- there just isn't enough time in the day for a single parent to support their family financially and raise their children!
(Entrepreneurial idea: modern-day nannies?)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-ZX5V4Qft4
Notice the scores are fairly close to the 60-70% range.
Which, when you account for 50% chance due to luck, makes it clear that the groups are not discernible.
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there just isn't enough time in the day for a single parent to support their family financially and raise their children!
Oh, I agree that it's a BIG obstacle in reversing the negative trend. And I agree that, for many, it is something they can't help.
But that's why we have to help the ones that are responsible, and take the children away from the ones who aren't.
For many kids, living in a single parent household with a parent who doesn't love them, certainly isn't any better than an orphanage.
But for the parents who love their children and genuinely want to provide for their children, they desperately need help.
How do you determine this with a set of rules, and why putting people in charge instead leads to so much corruption. Are the reasons we cannot employ that strategy.
So like Jesus says, "We will always have the poor."
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But for the parents who love their children and genuinely want to provide for their children, they desperately need help.
Yeah -- I'm surprised that I haven't heard of some overworked single parent hiring some enterprising fellow to provide that extra help, even.
Filed under: capitalism is not a
to problem solving
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I haven't heard of some overworked single parent hiring some enterprising fellow
Well, if a single parent is working two jobs, then they probably don't have the disposable income to hire anyone to help.
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I'm surprised that I haven't heard of some overworked single parent hiring some enterprising fellow to provide that extra help, even.
People hire other people to help them raise kids all the time.
The problem is that you hate single moms if you dare mention that stuff is easier if there are two parents around. And saying the people should be aware of consequences of things before they do them is just hating on victims for just about anything except crossing SJWs.
Because the feelings of people who had bad things happen to them are now infinitely more important than understanding our world and trying to help people avoid similar things.
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Oh, unfair things happen to me too.
A company wants to hire me as a programmer, but only part-time.
I can choose not to do that, or I can choose to participate and prove them wrong.
What I refuse to do, is choose or not choose to participate, and then develop some protected status for myself so I can whine them into submission.
Just in case, I did a few searches, and I couldn't find a woman CEO whining about not winning a contract due to sexism.
I did however find a lot of gender studies women complaining about women drop out rates in the workforce.
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Oh, unfair things happen to me too.
Yeah, but you're a white cis-straight male (AFAIK), so you don't count.
I did however find a lot of gender studies women complaining about women drop out rates in the workforce.
Of course, because a lot of those women were just brainwashed into being heterosexual and had sex with men and now think a good life involves raising more kids to feed into the maw of the heteropatriarchy.
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Of course, because a lot of those women were just brainwashed into being heterosexual and had sex with men and now think a good life involves raising more kids to feed into the maw of the heteropatriarchy.
It's okay, they can retroactively remove their consent, so all those times are now rape.
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Of course, because a lot of those women were just brainwashed
This actually offends me because it calls my mom a loser for staying home.
Which triggers, "You're saying what about my mom" from all the way back in elementary.
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This actually offends me because it calls my mom a loser for staying home.
Yes, it's pretty stupid, but that's one of the ideas that academic feminists are peddling. Seriously, they think that there's no reason for a woman to be heterosexual except because men (and the women they've already coerced) have coerced them to be that way.
But I'm a science denier because I won't pretend that obviously unskillful predictions are correct.
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Look, I can go on about it all day.
And the thing that threatens me is when couch warriors get to control policies for actual working women, and working men.
But I have to say that...
There was an ad in London subway that was defaced, and the company responsible for that ad won a 5x multiplier on their investment.
There are enough reasonable people that are frustrated with this now, that the tide could be turning, and we can get back to solve real inequality problems.
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I assume several of us watch his videos, but I suppose this helps the people who haven't.
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have coerced them to be that way
It gets worse.
Check out white knight Zennistrad, who says that gender roles are bad and they should stop even if that means coercing women into changing what they choose.
His argument.
The external factors are too strong for women to make choices from free-will.
Conclusion.
That gives us the right to be another external factor to coerce them in a new direction.
Which makes the source of this quote indiscernible.
"My oppression is better than their oppression. I'm doing it for your own good".
They are becoming their own enemy.But a house divided cannot stand.
And it's so much fun to watch when it crumbles.
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