Throw Edgar from the train!
-
Some states (OR is the only one I know of, but there may be others) allow triple-trailer configurations. I don't know what the restrictions are, other than all the ones I saw last time I drove through there had signs on the back warning that they were longer than standard.
Most states allow doubles and triples, although you have to be specially licensed for them and their huge turning circles limit their utility for lots of loads. They are also only mostly useful for loads of really low density. Mail, etc. Here in the US we have a GVW limit of 80K lbs with a guideline that if you can break the load down to get it under that weight limit then you must1. So, loads that you could fill two or three trailers of and still remain under 80K lbs are pretty rare, and so are doubles and triples. You can also run in to what is referred to as "Bridge laws" which get even more arcane.
The exception being oversize and overweight loads. Think heavy machinery and large components. Then, you can exceed these weight limits but you still have to fall under axle weight loading guidelines which is limited to a maximum of 20K lbs per axle or less. This is axle loading, not per axle loading. DOT officers actually carry scales that the truck has to be pulled on to and they place them in such a way that each axle has its own scale. You can be under limit on GCVW, but over on axle weights if the weight is not distributed properly.
- Try hauling machinery in bastard states like Ohio with Nazis for DOT officers. We once had to break down a 385 Cat excavator so far that we had the stick, bucket, tracks, track frames, counterweight and bucket on two other loads even though we could have been way under the axle loading. Basically if it could be removed, it had to be removed. I hated hauling into and out of that damned state.
-
Most states allow doubles and triples
Doubles are pretty common (though it seems like not as common as they used to be; it seems like maybe longer singles have replaced a lot of them), but OR is the only state in which I can ever remember seeing triples.
-
Here in the US we have a GVW limit of 80K lbs with a guideline that if you can break the load down to get it under that weight limit then you must
Also, the lack of this requirement in countries like Australia is why you see large "road trains" like @another_sam posted pictures of in the other thread. Traveling across the outback, with little traffic, and roads that are not much more than dirt paths across rocky terrain, you do not have to worry about weight or length very much. I would be willing to wager though, that at the edge of major metropolitan areas there are areas where these loads are broken down and hauled via single truck and trailer pairings to their final destination.
-
I would be willing to wager though, that at the edge of major metropolitan areas there are areas where these loads are broken down and hauled via single truck and trailer pairings to their final destination.
That's what I would assume, too.
-
Doubles are pretty common
Yeah, around here FedEx, UPS and the USPS have quite a few of them. They carry very low-density loads though.
(though it seems like not as common as they used to be; it seems like maybe longer singles have replaced a lot of them)
Hmmmm, good question. Trailers are limited to 53' in length now. It used to be an overall vehicle length, which is why you used to see "Cab-over" trucks. As the cab was much shorter as the cab was on top of the engine, you could haul a longer trailer and more cargo. Now there are less restrictions on overall vehicle length and a hard limit at 53'1 for trailers so everyone went back to conventional cabs for more comfort and ease of service (you had to tilt the entire cab via hydraulic jack to service the engine on Cab-over designs).
but OR is the only state in which I can ever remember seeing triples.
Perhaps there is something there that is frequently hauled that is of sufficiently low density that it makes sense to pull triples? All of the states that I have been involved hauling things in (almost all of the Midwest, part of the NE, a good part of the SE and as far west as Colorado) have allowed triples if the driver is properly licensed for it. That may be a federal law, I am not sure anymore as I have not had to deal with it for a long time.
I can however tell you, from my experience, that Ohio is the worst state to operate a commercial vehicle in. Particularly so if you are oversize/overweight. Their DOT is a pack of bastards.
- The hard limit is for cargo trailers, or what would be considered "Normal loads". Oversize and overweight trailers can greatly exceed this. Although many of them are able to be broken down when empty to achieve a shorter empty length as anything exceeding 53' trailer length cannot travel outside of "OS/OW hours". These are 1 hour after dawn, to 1 hour before dusk, never to be traveling within a major metropolitan area during weekday hours of 8-10AM and 4:30-6:30PM, no travel on federal holidays, etc. A shorter empty trailer means that you can travel as any conventional load would (overnight, rush hour, holidays, etc). YMMV, some of this may be local laws to our area, etc.
-
All of the states that I have been involved hauling things in (almost all of the Midwest, part of the NE, a good part of the SE and as far west as Colorado) have allowed triples if the driver is properly licensed for it.
The only parts of that area I've driven in are Illinois and Indiana, and that was a brief trip well over 20 years ago. I am certainly not claiming they aren't there; just that I have no recollection of seeing them. There is a world full of things I haven't seen, and almost certainly a lot that I have seen but forgotten.
-
There is a world full of things I haven't seen, and almost certainly a lot that I have seen but forgotten.
Likewise friend.
-
Most states allow doubles and triples, although you have to be specially licensed for them and their huge turning circles limit their utility for lots of loads.
Double and triple axles here are licensed the same, but triples have a higher load capacity because more axles at same axle load.
DOT officers actually carry scales that the truck has to be pulled on to
Nazis for DOT officers.
We get them too. I can't hate on them too badly because they're much like parking officers: They're enforcing rules that are intended to make the world better (safer trucks, more available parking) where without that enforcement sociopaths and negligents would take advantage.
-
Double and triple axles here are licensed the same, but triples have a higher load capacity because more axles at same axle load.
Difference in terminology and colloquialisms. We refer to "doubles and triples" as the number of trailers. Number of axles are tandems, tri-axles and quads. Single axle trucks don't have a term as far as I know?
-
in countries like Australia is why you see large "road trains"
Road trains are highly restricted in where they can be. They're basically not allowed within hundreds of kilometres of civilisation with more than two trailers, and with two they can follow some of the more regional highways sometimes. B-doubles are pretty common even in many places in metropolitan centres and can travel any highway they aren't specifically restricted from.
Traveling across the outback, with little traffic, and roads that are not much more than dirt paths across rocky terrain, you do not have to worry about weight or length very much
They do still have (I think) the same axle loading limits but the length limit and number of articulation points is higher.
I would be willing to wager though, that at the edge of major metropolitan areas there are areas where these loads are broken down and hauled via single truck and trailer pairings to their final destination.
The big road trains don't get anywhere near metro areas. They are strictly middle-of-nowhere vehicles. The two-trailer road trains get closer but are still decoupled a few hundred clicks from capital cities. They are towed in a single-trailer or B-double configuration to metro areas.
It used to be an overall vehicle length, which is why you used to see "Cab-over" trucks
We still restrict overall length, so we still have a lot of cab-over trucks.
-
We still restrict overall length, so we still have a lot of cab-over trucks.
Judging by European truck designs, I would assume they do also.
Oh, wait, you are British. I forgot. ;-)
-
without that enforcement sociopaths and negligents would take advantage.
...whereas now they just take up a career in enforcement instead...
-
-
Difference in terminology and colloquialisms. We refer to "doubles and triples" as the number of trailers. Number of axles are tandems, tri-axles and quads.
Ah, I see. In that case, different licences here for one trailer or more than one trailer. Also what you said about GCM (Gross Combination Mass) doesn't apply here, we allow higher GCM for more trailers.
Single axle trucks don't have a term as far as I know?
I don't know of any term for them either. They're pretty rare because extremely limited load capacity but still large vehicle. Very low density loads.
-
-
Does this qualify for whoosh?
-
Also what you said about GCM (Gross Combination Mass) doesn't apply here, we allow higher GCM for more trailers.
Which honestly makes more sense than our weird ass system. Here in the USA, you can run a triple trailer rig right through the middle of a major city during rush hour if you want to. But not if it is over 80K lbs. Anything over 80K lbs requires a load and route specific permit, even if the axle loading is 5k lbs per.
All a bit silly and antique if you ask me. You Brits have a better system there.
-
-
He turned me into a newt!
-
Here in the USA, you can run a triple trailer rig right through the middle of a major city during rush hour if you want to. But not if it is over 80K lbs
Having now asked Google for the conversion to real units of weight, I have to point out that a prime mover and three trailers probably weigh nearly that much when empty. That's a low limit even for a single trailer.
I think so. Shall we flag him?
I have done so.
-
That's a low limit even for a single trailer.
What are your weight limits for a single truck and trailer? And where did you pick all of this up at? Most nerds have little knowledge of trucking laws.
-
Also - live testing this: 6ab865b7-1b48-403b-b126-25fe3e0a8fa6 ...
Pendantry badges with links: http://what.thedailywtf.com/badges/169/someone-didn-t-get-the-joke-sql-version-
Edit: Yay. It worked.
-
By the time you are done with this DiscoAdventure, you will be able to write a doctoral thesis on SQL statements in Postgres.
-
Pffft. No ta. My DB experience prior to Discourse amounts to:
- The DB lessons in the first 2 years I completed of a 3 year degree course
- A rather simple DB schema at work which was the result of writing the 2nd generation telemetry stuff which (among other things) involved normalising the 1NF database that was being used originally.
- The arguably WTF database schema I have on my hobby website written from scratch in PHP.
Writing the queries for here have been.. a learning experience.
-
Oh - and what's going to be even more challenging - as part of the transition of #2 from 1st gen to 2nd gen, the 2nd gen database now has to have a view which reproduces the 1NF table so that older tools can use it.
:
-
What are your weight limits for a single truck and trailer?
... not as high as I had remembered. 36.5t for standard tandem drive prime mover with triple axle trailer, which is close to your 80k funny units. 39.5t for the same axle configuration if you have "road friendly" suspension. Add 20t more for a second triple axle trailer on a B-double or 40t per dolly and trailer on a road train. If I'm reading my source right.
And where did you pick all of this up at? Most nerds have little knowledge of trucking laws.
I worked in excavations in a previous life, so had a fair bit of exposure to heavy machinery. Riding in trucks and bulldozers and stuff is fun. Memory is getting fuzzy as it was a while ago, hence earlier inaccuracies. My dad also worked for the same company for a long time, from when I was little. He has owned the company for about ten years.
These days most exposure is through my in-laws: They are farmers and truck drivers. My brother-in-law owns three trucks, pays a couple of drivers and drives one himself.
I checked some of my figures here:
Business and Industry
Information and resources for people and organisations who do business with Transport for NSW.
That's for the state I have most of my exposure from, but most heavy vehicle rules are national, not state-based, because state-based rules for vehicles that routinely cross state borders would be pants-on-head retarded, right?
-
Damn, I've been trying really hard to avoid that badge. At least I'm in good company. Nearly all the top posters here have one; some more than one. I suppose it was bound to happen eventually.
Now that you've had your fun, would someone mind explaining why the fuck calling @another_sam British is supposed to be a joke?
-
Now that you've had your fun, would someone mind explaining why the fuck calling @another_sam British is supposed to be a joke?
@Polygeekery is just trying to get a rise out of me. I think it started when he tried to set me up for a joke and I subverted it. I can only guess what the punch line was going to be, but probably something about convicts or criminals. Now he's less subtle about it because it's become a bit of a joke, or really more of a meta-joke.
-
Having now asked Google for the conversion to real units of weight
355857.729 newtons, for anyone wondering.
Pendant Post -b
-
355857.729 newtons
I have been schooled at measuring unit snobbery. I wish I could give more than one like.
-
@Polygeekery is just trying to get a rise out of me. ... Now he's less subtle about it because it's become a bit of a joke,
So basically it's a private joke between the two of you. And I get a "badge of shame" for not knowing this. Thanks.
-
So basically it's a private joke between the two of you. And I get a "badge of shame" for not knowing this. Thanks.
It all happened in public, on these forums. Don't you read every single post that is made here?
[I don't either]
The semi-private nature of the joke is one reason why I first posted "Does this qualify?" As you say, many posters have the badge. I do not (yet) but I don't think you should feel too ashamed about it. I also note PJH awarded it pretty readily with only two flags, but he is genuinely British so maybe it was more obvious to him.
-
Now that you've had your fun, would someone mind explaining why the fuck calling @another_sam British is supposed to be a joke?
What @another_sam said, plus calling an Australian a Brit is almost as bad as calling an Englishman a Frenchman.
-
So basically it's a private joke between the two of you. And I get a "badge of shame" for not knowing this. Thanks.
Well, not really private. I have been calling him a Brit for...a month now? Sound about right to you @another_sam?
-
I worked in excavations in a previous life, so had a fair bit of exposure to heavy machinery.
As did I. I was a superintendent/estimator/GM/supervisor/whatever else for excavation and utility contractors. I grew up in mining as my father always owned or was part of mining operations. After deciding college was not for me, he fast-tracked me to management. I spent a few years doing mass excavation and then moved into utility/infrastructure.
I frequently moonlighted in IT though. For several years I was a field technician for a major Healthcare provider part-time. Everything kind of progressed from there.
-
That's for the state I have most of my exposure from, but most heavy vehicle rules are national, not state-based
Here we have federal laws, and some states have stricter laws in addendum to those. Which gives you the interesting side effect of having a legal load until you cross a state border.
I am looking at you Ohio...
-
because state-based rules for vehicles that routinely cross state borders would be pants-on-head retarded, right?
So...you've been to Ohio?
I also know a lot of this stuff because my best friend (was also my best man at my wedding) is a guy who owns a trucking company that specializes in oversize/overweight loads.
-
I think it started when he tried to set me up for a joke and I subverted it. I can only guess what the punch line was going to be, but probably something about convicts or criminals.
Negative. I think it was going to be something like:
You're British.
No I'm not, I'm Australian.
YOU HAVE THE QUEEN ON YOUR MONEY!! DON'T SPLIT HAIRS WITH ME YOU LIMEY BASTARD!!
Or something like that. Would have been funnier at the time. It is rubbish now. Really, it was rubbish then, but I would have been amused.
(Multiple replies because quoting is shit on mobile)
-
And I get a "badge of shame" for not knowing this. Thanks.
I will be there soon, just give it time. I am too much of a contrarian for not to happen.
-
I would be willing to wager though, that at the edge of major metropolitan areas there are areas where these loads are broken down and hauled via single truck and trailer pairings to their final destination.
Road trains are not allowed east of (the western side of) Toowoomba. I remember seeing a sign to that effect when I lived there.
Edit: where it says "Access to Qld Transport Inspection Centre and Saleyards" at http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/busind/Heavyvehicles/multicomboveh/Maps/southqld/Section 3/Pdf_mcv_toowoomba_updated_18_4_11.pdf
-
It all happened in public, on these forums. Don't you read every single post that is made here?
I used to, now I just scroll through and glance at ones that seem interesting.
-
OR is the only state in which I can ever remember seeing triples.
I've seen them somewhere around the East coast. It always seemed to be a FedEx or UPS truck. And the trailers themselves seemed extra small. It made sense to me for those guys to use them, presuming that they'd loaded those things so they could get to the next station and then go separate ways.
-
I've seen them somewhere around the East coast. It always seemed to be a FedEx or UPS truck. And the trailers themselves seemed extra small.
Ditto.
Also seen during the most recent Christmas rush: UPS delivery trucks pulling U-Haul-sized dual-axle trailers...
(in UPS colors...)
:doubletake:
-
You get a lot of interesting restaurants in strip malls
Is a strip mall like a strip club?
-
Here we have federal laws, and some states have stricter laws in addendum to those. Which gives you the interesting side effect of having a legal load until you cross a state border.
I am looking at you Ohio...
From nearly the dawn of time, an old colleague relayed this story:
The US Navy at the time had some ready-to-deploy crane ships for near-shore logistics. The plan was that they would lease the cranes when needed.
So, one day it hits the fan, and the decision is made to deploy logistics ships from the ready reserve including one of the crane ships. Unfortunately, it's Friday afternoon, and there's one poor guy left "minding the store"...
He digs around, finds the appropriate documentation and calls up the leasing folks, and they're on board they know what to send and to where. When? ASAP. Can do.
Crane-people: Who's paying?
USN-guy: What?
Crane-people: Who's paying?
USN-guy: It's Friday afternoon!! Everybody's gone home! I don't have the authority to pay for things!
Crane-people: Somebody's got to pay...
USN-guy: ...I have my Visa-card...?So six huge boom cranes show up at the gates to Norfolk's naval base, oh-dawn-thirty on Monday, "Sorry we took so long. We weren't allowed to move them on Sunday. Blue laws, you know."
That's service.
-
Is a strip mall like a strip club?
I've seen a few strip clubs in strip malls. I'm guessing that if strip malls were more like strip clubs, the city hipsters wouldn't bitch about them so much.
-
-
Strictly, we'd need to measure Ben's local value of g to be sure of that. I don't know what sort of local gravitational anomalies are present in south-eastern Wisconsin.
-
while true, gravitational anomalies typically do not exceed 0.5% on earth's surface so we can reasonably assume standard gravity.
his excessive use of significant digits on the other hand.... that is unforgiveable
-
while true gravitational anomalies typically do not exceed 0.5% on earth's surface so we can reasonably assume standard gravity.
his excessive use of significant digits on the other hand.... that is unforgiveable
I was going to go pedantic dickweed about that last night, but after looking into it, Wikipedia gives a conversion factor between pounds-force and Newtons that is exact-by-definition to something like 14 significant figures (using a standard gravity that is defined to something like 7 or 8 digits). If you treat the 80k pounds-force legal limit as exact-by-definition, then Ben's answer doesn't have too many digits. It's absurd, but not wrong.
