🚀 The Kerbal Thread - Share Your Kerbal Creations
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More revisions:
- Replaced structural fuselage in front nacelles with T400 fuel tanks.
- Altered balance of "fuel" and "fuel + oxygen" tanks by replacing the first Mk2 fuselage part with a fuel-only part.
- Removed "underslung" engine, replacing it with two engines atop the tail adjacent to the atomic engine. This also adds a couple new air intakes.
- That "cleaned-up" the surface area of the plane's belly, so the docking port is now on the belly. Not only will this make docking easier (less stuff to dodge), but the port's now sitting directly on the center of mass, so moving the ship will be easier as well. Also the Kerbalnaut in the cockpit can see where he's going.
- Fixed sketchy placement of RCS-- should move in straight lines now instead of tilting around when RCS is used
- Added two more solar arrays, to replace the ones removed from the bottom of the plane. Unfortunately, being between the tail, they won't get much light... maybe I should move them to the cockpit? EDIT: just now moved two of them to the center air intake nacelles, so at least the plane will get some light if the tail is blocking the others.
- Enough for now I'm getting lunch.
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It's getting crowded here:
Hey Seancas, did you see that sweet ride I got parked out front? No, I can't land mine, either.
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.... i ay have been playing KSP too much.
i just tried to zoom in and pan the camera to get a better look....
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Yeah it's kind of a mass of confusing girders.
Here's another angle, if it helps:
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So my space station is overheating!
ADD RADIATORS!
/me launches the rocket
frack! it go boom at 10km.
MOAR STRUTS!
Added more struts. lets try that launch again!
nope. not enough separatrons on stage 2. blew my third stage engine up.....
moar spearatrons was not the answer. just shredded the rocket worse....
grrrrrrrrr.
new launcher. more deltaV. maybe it won't explode in the atmosphere.
I PUSH THE BIG RED BUTTON NOW!
snapped in half again.
more struts!
SUCCESSFUL SEPARATION!
the secret was fewer seperatrons.
in spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace!
finally got the thing docked. that sucker steers like a drunk aircraft carrier!
DAN DAN DAAAAN! Space Lab1!
or at least the core, crew habitat, some solar power, and a giant ass radiator system to handle the thermal load of the rreactor i'm going to be slapping on trhe back end of there to power the science lab modules i'm going to be adding.... probably on Sunday.
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My slightly-improved-but-still-awkward lunar lander is now on Minmus! Pretty similar to the lander I took to the Mun, except I spaced out the landing struts away from the body to give it a lower center of gravity and not topple over so easily.
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Running on Minmus is slow. I don't believe I'm far from a biome boundary and want to grab another soil sample while I'm in the vicinity. I'm just waiting for poor Jeb to push too hard and eject himself into orbit!
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WTF? Gotta dump one of my soil samples? Ridiculous.
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you can put one in the capsule. drop the one from near the capsule then run back, but this on ein and recollect from near capsule.
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I had one in the capsule already and it made me dump my new one to board.
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Wow I'm an idiot. I'm trying to add VTOL to my space plane like Groaner, and I can't even figure out how he attached them.
EDIT: Ok, Cubic Struts work. And Jesus these little engines are powerful, 12 of them flipped my plane over in 3 seconds.
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I'm considering a vernor engine VTOL variant of the Thunderbird (my SSTO project) for low-gravity worlds. Because spaceplanes on bodies with no atmosphere are AWESOME.
I've almost passed atmospheric trials with the thing. Had a testing incident switching from jets to nukes because, well, apparently I managed to unbind the right-hand nukes from the hotkeys.....
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She rides!!!
And that's on Kerbin.
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I'm considering a vernor engine VTOL variant
That's an interesting idea. Vernor looks like it has a thrust of 12, compared to 30 for the 48-7S. Also the 48-7s gets an ISP of 300-350, while the Vernor only gets 140-260. Not sure that's gonna work out.
EDIT: I just noticed that it's listed as massless and dragless according to the wiki.
EDIT: I used an assload of vernors, and it ain't getting off the ground
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Inner fuselage is fuel, plus a large cargo bay (presently empty - the intent is to use it for mission payloads - you can even fit one of the humungous science lab modules in if you leave the bay doors open). Mini docking port on top, giant one underneath.
Outer fuselages are micropropellant, small cargo bays (configured as utility bays with permanently installed stuff) crew cabins, and yet more fuel.
Utility bays contain shitloads of battery and SAS, plus radioistope generators (which I may surplus depending on trials with the solar panels). I am vaguely considering making the upper two jets droppable. They aren't necessary for low atmo flight (i.e. reentry and landing), but they make it handle so much better.
5 jets/14 intakes
4 nukesStill don't know if it's going to be landable. This is the design that would go unstable at ignition altitude on reentry in the past (but I have since added the SAS)
Mission concept for this airframe is basically a mobile base. Park it in system orbit as a communications relay/mobile mission control and use lighter airframes (or even normal landers) for the dirty work. It'll come with small, semi-disposable lightweight ion-engined comsats to flesh out the rest of the local communications network.
AWACS in SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!
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Probably not viable on something as big as Kerbin. Think small moons. It'll be... Uh, risky to test....
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Well, Gilly'll work. But you can land on Gilly by spitting downwards.
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I THOUGHT I PUT FUEL DUCTS THERE! WTF!
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Dumb VTOL concepts #1: Poodles
It does work.
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Dumb VTOL concepts #2: Mailsail
Worked (left the ground), but impossible to keep it under control.
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Dumb VTOL concepts #3: Mark 55 Radials
Actually work... pretty damned good, I have to admit. They look ugly as shit though.
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Successfully landed. Used about 3/4 of the runway by coming in WAY high. Of course, I didn't get to do a full reentry because I farked up these fuel ducts somehow. They're there, but they aren't working. WTF?
FUEL DUCTS AREN'T BIDIRECTIONAL?!??!?!
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Dumb VTOL concepts #4: FUCK EVERYTHING
Hmm, the wheels aren't touching the ground for some reason...
Pfft. Only one wing crashed into the ground at 115 m/s.
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FUEL DUCTS AREN'T BIDIRECTIONAL?!??!?!
Nah, they have little arrows. It gives you more control over which engines pull from which tanks that way. I wish there was a bidirectional option though. I also wish there was a "only show ugly yellow fuel hoses in the VAB please" option, because damn they're ugly.
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Cmdr Hallie to Captain Jeb: What's it mean when plasma starts flowing through the slipstream and everything starts handling like a dog?
Jeb: How the fuck is your radio working?
... WTF and my right side nukes STILL aren't igniting when instructed.
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Trying a rocket-style ascent profile. The alarming thing is that it seems to be working.
I literally just pitched up to 90 as soon as I left the runway.
Successful changeover to rockets.
Ascent stalled out at 33775m... Returning to base to try a shallower profile.
Too shallow. Hit the terminal velocity wall around 23km and got started dropping.
I think I have too much jet and not enough rocket. If an intermediate ascent profile doesn't work, I'll try swapping the upper two jets for Rapiers.Ascent failure at 34500m. Not enough trust to get this big girl into space.
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Twelve Rockomax 48-7S mounted via cubic struts. I know from
MechJebmass calculations that the craft is 37 tons, and 30kN * 12 = 360kN, which is close enough to a 1.0 TWR on Kerbin, and more than enough for Laythe's 0.8g. I also spin up my jets before activating VTOL, so not having exactly 1.0 right off the bat isn't a big deal. So yes, I did both test on Kerbin and did some math! ;)You're going to have to do a ton of testing regardless to make sure they're mounted evenly. I tried spreading them across the body and it makes it very hard to recover if you pitch or roll, probably because the SAS units can't compensate for the greater torque (force times lever length and what not). So they sit concentrated under the CoM.
The radial engines, while looking nicer, are all worse in both TWR and Isp. than the 48-7S. It's kind of sad. 360kN of thrust only costs you 1.2 tons, and every bit of weight counts with these planes.
Godzilla (my upcoming 5 jet + 4 LV-N design) will use a Skipper for VTOL mainly because its 3-ton price tag isn't that big of a deal with a larger craft (also that the Skipper has been such an awesome engine since 0.24), and I'm trying to keep part counts down.
Ladder testing... if I do land a Kerbalnaut on Laythe, I wanna make sure he can get back in the damned cockpit.
This one I forget sometimes. Or something other that's critical, like an antenna, lights, or power sources.
Is Nebraska a stock ship or something? I originally thought it was a joke about how certain rockets were powerful enough to literally lift the state, but I see the word Nebraska getting used too often for it to have been a one-off sarcastic snark.
Your initial guess was correct. @blakeyrat inspired me to name my space stations after states. New Jersey is my Skipper version, New York is my Mainsail version, and Nebraska is my KR-2L version.
it is actually.
i always go for it first.
higher science values compared to the Mun
Lower total deltaV budget required (lander needs < 400m/s to make it home)
low gravity means landing is way more forgivingMe too.
Are you doing a single-stage lander, or 2-stage?
My upcoming Tylo lander is 3 stages (4 if I decide to refuel the transfer stage before descent).
i'll have to figure that out soon, because i really don't like the way mechjeb displays that info, and i sure as F*** don't want the temptation to enable any of mechjeb's "just do it for me" features.
It's very easy to avoid using those features, particularly when you find that with a little practice, you can do mid-course correction burns or docking better it can, for example.
My slightly-improved-but-still-awkward lunar lander is now on Minmus! Pretty similar to the lander I took to the Mun, except I spaced out the landing struts away from the body to give it a lower center of gravity and not topple over so easily.
Yeah, top-heavy landers will bite you in the ass. Although, somehow I was able to land this in 0.23.5:
Running on Minmus is slow. I don't believe I'm far from a biome boundary and want to grab another soil sample while I'm in the vicinity. I'm just waiting for poor Jeb to push too hard and eject himself into orbit!
Use physics warp if you can. Makes some of those boring periods over more quickly.
I'm considering a vernor engine VTOL variant of the Thunderbird (my SSTO project) for low-gravity worlds. Because spaceplanes on bodies with no atmosphere are AWESOME.
Hadn't thought of that, don't they respond to RCS controls? That could make things easier and harder since it wouldn't be bound to your throttle.
5 jets/14 intakes
I would say that that's a little low, but those are shock cones, so I dunno.
Cmdr Hallie to Captain Jeb: What's it mean when plasma starts flowing through the slipstream and everything starts handling like a dog?Jeb: How the fuck is your radio working?
I'm only usually going about 400-600 m/s at that altitude. I don't start the heavy acceleration until above 20km.
Trying a rocket-style ascent profile. The alarming thing is that it seems to be working.
You must have good TWR and lift to be able to pull that off. I can keep a 60 degree angle of attack on Megalon up to 20km, but straight up is crazy.
Successful changeover to rockets.
Ascent stalled out at 33775m... Returning to base to try a shallower profile.
At 29km, I would hope to be going 1300m/s or faster. I know it's harder to pull that off on larger craft, though.
My ascent profile is pretty much ~45 degrees to 20km, then go nearly flat to build up horizontal speed, but still vertical enough so that plasma doesn't become a problem around 1000m/s.
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Godzilla (my upcoming 5 jet + 4 LV-N design) will use a Skipper for VTOL mainly because its 3-ton price tag isn't that big of a deal with a larger craft (also that the Skipper has been such an awesome engine since 0.24), and I'm trying to keep part counts down.
Skipper's been awesome since launch. I want to go this route, but the damned bell is too damned long-- I have no way of mounting the thing without starting from scratch on my landing gear.
Also since you have to plop the Skipper directly on the Center of Mass, it raises the whole "where the shit does the docking port go?" issue again.
My upcoming Tylo lander is 3 stages (4 if I decide to refuel the transfer stage before descent).
Yeah well Tylo is Tylo. We were talking about Mun.
At 29km, I would hope to be going 1300m/s or faster. I know it's harder to pull that off on larger craft, though.
To give you an idea, my 6-engine craft pictures above does about 1050m/s at 30k, that's also very close to the ceiling.
I've taken to turning on the rockets when my intake is at about 0.66, then shutting down the engines when it hits 0.25. (I can't flame-out, I have an even number of engines.) Works well on that ship, and leaves plenty of fuel for orbit-- adding the atomic so I don't waste gas doing like space station intercepts helped, too.
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Oh I know how to do the Skipper. You leave a hole in the Mk2 fuselages, and shove the skipper through the middle of the gap. Use a flat plate to cover it up nicely, then mount the docking port directly above. The bell will still pop below the base, but it shouldn't be too awful-looking.
Basically, make a F-35 Turbofan. But it's a Skipper.
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Something like this but with, you know, wings and shit.
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Oh I know how to do the Skipper. You leave a hole in the Mk2 fuselages, and shove the skipper through the middle of the gap. Use a flat plate to cover it up nicely, then mount the docking port directly above. The bell will still pop below the base, but it shouldn't be too awful-looking.
Basically, make a F-35 Turbofan. But it's a Skipper.
That could work. I put an upside-down docking port or attachment point inside the top of the fuselage and then mount the engine on that, but your idea seems a lot less dirty.
Also since you have to plop the Skipper directly on the Center of Mass, it raises the whole "where the shit does the docking port go?" issue again.
Mine's right next to the cockpit. Makes docking a little trickier, but my RCS thrusters are more or less balanced.
Yeah well Tylo is Tylo. We were talking about Mun.
It should be good practice for Moho, since I'm forbidding using LV-Ns on that mission.
I've taken to turning on the rockets when my intake is at about 0.66, then shutting down the engines when it hits 0.25. (I can't flame-out, I have an even number of engines.) Works well on that ship, and leaves plenty of fuel for orbit-- adding the atomic so I don't waste gas doing like space station intercepts helped, too.
Can you throttle down at all? That cuts your thrust but it'll let your jets run a bit longer. In the mid 30's, drag seems to be much less of a concern. I've used that approach with some of my 2-engine attempts and it helps to some degree even though you have to fight uneven thrust.
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That could work. I put an upside-down docking port or attachment point inside the top of the fuselage and then mount the engine on that, but your idea seems a lot less dirty.
Overlapping parts is on my "cheating" list, haha.
I've been fiddling with this and I don't really have anything workable yet. I'm fighting the game editor all the way.
Mine's right next to the cockpit. Makes docking a little trickier, but my RCS thrusters are more or less balanced.
I'd like to keep it centered so I can attach big-ass boosters to it to fly it to Jool. Off-center docking port would really limit how much thrust I could put in it.
It should be good practice for Moho, since I'm forbidding using LV-Ns on that mission.
Moho's only slightly harder than Mun. If you've landed on Duna, you can do Moho easy.
Can you throttle down at all? That cuts your thrust but it'll let your jets run a bit longer. In the mid 30's, drag seems to be much less of a concern. I've used that approach with some of my 2-engine attempts and it helps to some degree even though you have to fight uneven thrust.
Hm. Haven't tried that yet.
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Overlapping parts is on my "cheating" list, haha.
I've been fiddling with this and I don't really have anything workable yet. I'm fighting the game editor all the way.
I'm inclined to agree. It'd be easier with twin engines because then you could use girders to mount them symmetrically above the base of the fuselage.
I'd like to keep it centered so I can attach big-ass boosters to it to fly it to Jool. Off-center docking port would really limit how much thrust I could put in it.
Oh, yeah, if you're using a tug, then that's pretty important. It's rather frightening seeing how much stress a docking port can take with full throttle and 4x time warp to make a 10+ minute LV-N burn bearable.
Moho's only slightly harder than Mun. If you've landed on Duna, you can do Moho easy.
Yeah, the hard part will be getting there. I might make it even more interesting by only allowing three stages: one KR-2L, one Skipper/Mainsail, and one landing stage with no asparagus staging or drop tanks. If I can average around 5km/s in each stage, it ought to be doable.
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I'm inclined to agree. It'd be easier with twin engines because then you could use girders to mount them symmetrically above the base of the fuselage.
Here's what I got right now. I'm breaking my own rule, but just with girders which I'm willing to fudge a bit.
Ugly as sin, but with wings and shit maybe acceptable.
EDIT: except don't build that because it's way too heavy for a single Skipper, haha.
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Here's a kind of a ... thing? I guess?
Ok I'm going to bed.
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Realized I never flagged Duna on this save, I'm killing an hour until I meet up with a friend so I figured I'd get that done.
Nothing too extraordinary here.
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Those Rapiers are CATASTROPHICALLY thirsty when you cut them over to rocket mode. Maybe I should switch back to jets and figure out where to cram two more LV-N's....
Anyway, time for reentry testing! I didn't have enough SAS to keep things entirely together at high altitude on the way up, so I can only imagine this is going to get interesting shortly.
And I forgot the parachutes. Chief Test Pilot Hallie is in for a rough ride.
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Deorbit burn over the terminator.
After the burn:
A powered landing is going to be tough. Mechjeb thinks the touchdown point will be ~50km from the space center - long, so out over the water to the east.
I CAN SEE MY HOUSE FROM HERE!
Chief Test Pilot Hallie is DISGUSTED by leaving RCS on in low atmo (monopropellant weighs something, lets get as much of it out of here as possible).Beginning the final descent turn back to KSC.
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In a totally predictable turn of events, this thing wants to do a friggin' tailstand. Transferred all surviving fuel and oxidizer balance to the forwardmost tank, and it's ALMOST controllable.
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Adding science modules to my space lab!
Launching the stock Science module...
coming in for docking.
Docked!
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FULL THROTTLE AND PREPARE FOR HULL ABLATION.
That is NOT proper landing procedure!
A quarter million spacebucks worth of hardware AND Chief Test Pilot Hallie into the drink.
This is the first fatal accident in Space Program history. Next time, we'll tank up before reentry. Balance is all wrong empty. (Does it still count as an SSTO if it can't do anything on orbit -not even a safe deorbit- without a multistage system bringing it fuel?)
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Science module #2!
this one is from Interstellar mod:
Why do i always launch at night?
A better view. I added landing gear this time cause last time i bounced and pancaked. I'll have to hold a memorial at the end of my play session.
Docked again!
hmm... those landing legs appeared to be totally necessary
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Requiescat in Pace
Johnsel Kerman
Melsby Kerman
Bill, Bob and Jebediah paying respects to their fallen comrades. (i'm shocked that i haven't had to plant more of those flags by now.)
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Realized I never flagged Duna on this save, I'm killing an hour until I meet up with a friend so I figured I'd get that done.
Mission Control occasionally gives me a Duna or Ike flagging mission, which is a nice break from long transfer times to Jool, Dres, etc.
Those Rapiers are CATASTROPHICALLY thirsty when you cut them over to rocket mode. Maybe I should switch back to jets and figure out where to cram two more LV-N's....
360s isn't terrible Isp, but it's going to consume fuel about six and a half times faster than an LV-N for a given throttle setting.
My best RAPIER designs had like 1500-1800 m/s left over at orbit, which isn't terrible, but it rules out single stage to Laythe.
(Does it still count as an SSTO if it can't do anything on orbit without a multistage system bringing it fuel?)
It's Single Stage to Orbit. Anything beyond that is out of scope!
Next time, we'll tank up before reentry. Balance is all wrong empty.
This is a hard problem. Still, I'm impressed that you and @blakeyrat are mastering spaceplanes so quickly.
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Lifting a (nearly) full kerbydyne tank to orbit. Why's there a command pod with a parachute up there? Lets just call it insurance.
PR photo featuring the newly constructed Thunderbird 2 Airframe (now with added safety!), new Thunderbird Program Chief Test Pilot Pathat Kerman and Space Program Chief Pilot Jebediah Kerman before Pathat's first flight.
The mission plan is to verify that the addition of ladders and parachutes to the base Thunderbird design has not compromised its flight characteristics, and then to rendezvous with a fuel tanker already on orbit.
Jeb will transfer to the tanker to... Uh, carry out some important task or another and will remain with the tanker. Pathat will fly the fully fueled Thunderbird 2 on a reentry and land at the KSC.
If controllability issues arise, the secondary mission goal is to test deployment of the parachute system.
On orbit. 180 degrees out of phase with the fuel tug (oops) and 10km below. 34ish phasing orbits. Hope Jeb brought a book. (An hour of maximum warp at this altitude... Jesus. I'm going to go take a shower)
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Tanked up, 7200 delta-V. One of those tankers has enough for 3 of these (though the tanker has to do the intercept burns, so if things are really awful it'll only be 2)
Landing test tomorrow.
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Tanked up, 7200 delta-V. One of those tankers has enough for 3 of these (though the tanker has to do the intercept burns, so if things are really awful it'll only be 2)
That's more than sufficient for most destinations.
Now you've reminded me that I need to build tankers for my remote stations...
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PR photo featuring the newly constructed Thunderbird 2 Airframe (now with added safety!), new Thunderbird Program Chief Test Pilot Pathat Kerman and Space Program Chief Pilot Jebediah Kerman before Pathat's first flight.
Why is Pathat glowing orange like he's re-entering? That's a weird quirk.
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Now, to take care of a couple of boring, high delta-V rocks.
Not bad for a capture burn, I've seen some close to 2km/s.
Yeah, we're gonna attempt the trench.
Not hitting the cliffs would be a good thing.
HMM I WONDER WHERE THIS CANYON COULD BE.
That was easier than expected. On to Moho. For this mission, we are using neither LV-N's nor asparagus staging to make things more interesting:
From orbit, there's still ~12km/s remaining. We're going to need every last drop of it. Here's our escape burn:
Plane change:
Intercept:
Capture:
And just under 3km/s left at orbit.
I probably could have saved a lot of delta-V on this mission (intercept at ascending nodes, intercept at Moho apoapsis, etc.), but we have a safe landing, and objectives are complete. I'm not sure if the fuel reserves will make orbit, but that's a problem for another day. Besides, science and flag-planting duties remain.
Tylo and Eeloo are up next.
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Yeah I'm not entirely sure wtf was up there. It seemed to be a lighting effect, rather than reentry.
Anyway, I regret to report that Thunderbird 2 broke up on reentry. It is believed to not be a design issue, but a case of pilot error. It appears that Pathat, owing to his inexperience with the airframe, disengaged the rapier engines and applied thrust using the turbojets only. This asymmetry caused the craft to enter a nose-over tumble with insufficient altitude to recover. Cmdr. Pathat then activated the abort system - all engines shut down and the parachutes deployed. The aircraft had entered a flat spin condition by the 500m parachute inflation altitude. Forces caused the aircraft to come aerodynamically disassemble - the forward LFO tank separated from the cockpit. Regrettably, no parachute provisions had been made for the cockpit module. Commander Pathat Kerman died screaming as the cockpit made a supersonic, nose-down impact with the ground.
On the positive side,
the outer fuselage assemblies were both completely intact - if the auxiliary crews had been present, they would have survived.
And had been landed using DARK MAGIC.A new airframe, Thunderbird 2B, will be constructed using the recovered Thunderbird 2 components and an all-new central fuselage assembly featuring Even More Safety® (licensed from JetBlue Airways) and an innovative new engine layout.
