Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition
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@Carnage said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads,
As I've always understood it, it's not about wear but about where waste heat goes. If you use the bakes, then the waste heat heats up the brakes, which have relatively limited thermal mass and are air-cooled. If you use engine braking, the waste heat goes into the engine, which has much higher thermal mass and is water cooled via the radiator, which probably gets more airflow than the brake pads do.
The transmission often has it's own oil system and air cooling. Overheating the transmission fluid will increase transmission wear and cause it to fail sooner.
Brakes are specifically designed and manufactured to turn kinetic energy into heat. That is their entire purpose. To instead use the transmission for this seems a bit odd.
Also, you could let off the brakes and let them cool a bit before glassing them or boiling the brake fluid to avoid catastrophic failure of brakes.But keeping the car in a lower gear doesn't, AFAIK, overheat the transmission. It might push the engine to higher rpms, but the transmission would be fine. Compared to the brakes failing while at speed going downhill, it's far safer. And then, if I do end up needing to use the brakes, they're cool and maximally effective, since I haven't been keeping them hot by using them to limit my speed downhill.
Edit: And I mean when the downhill stretch is over a mile long, like driving through mountain passes in the Rockies. If it's just a short hill, then using the brakes to control my speed works fine.
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@boomzilla said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
It's called "Sport" mode on mine, I believe (and labeled "S" on the main shifter). I have never intentionally used it.
Both of mine have Sport and Manual as separate modes.
Sport on mine changes the behaviour of the gearbox (how it shifts, how long the gear is held, etc) but I assume it's not universal.
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Carnage said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads,
As I've always understood it, it's not about wear but about where waste heat goes. If you use the bakes, then the waste heat heats up the brakes, which have relatively limited thermal mass and are air-cooled. If you use engine braking, the waste heat goes into the engine, which has much higher thermal mass and is water cooled via the radiator, which probably gets more airflow than the brake pads do.
The transmission often has it's own oil system and air cooling. Overheating the transmission fluid will increase transmission wear and cause it to fail sooner.
Brakes are specifically designed and manufactured to turn kinetic energy into heat. That is their entire purpose. To instead use the transmission for this seems a bit odd.
Also, you could let off the brakes and let them cool a bit before glassing them or boiling the brake fluid to avoid catastrophic failure of brakes.But keeping the car in a lower gear doesn't, AFAIK, overheat the transmission. It might push the engine to higher rpms, but the transmission would be fine. Compared to the brakes failing while at speed going downhill, it's far safer. And then, if I do end up needing to use the brakes, they're cool and maximally effective, since I haven't been keeping them hot by using them to limit my speed downhill.
It potentially does overheat the lubricant in the transmission. Countering the acceleration from rolling downhill will dump heat somewhere. In a manual, you dump it in the engine where it really doesn't matter, in an automatic you potentially dump it in the transmission, unless I'm mistaken. Which is entirely possible.
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
if I do end up needing to use the brakes, they're cool and maximally effective, since I haven't been keeping them hot by using them to limit my speed downhill.
If you just floor the gaz pedal, your brakes and transmission won't overheat
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@Carnage said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads,
As I've always understood it, it's not about wear but about where waste heat goes. If you use the bakes, then the waste heat heats up the brakes, which have relatively limited thermal mass and are air-cooled. If you use engine braking, the waste heat goes into the engine, which has much higher thermal mass and is water cooled via the radiator, which probably gets more airflow than the brake pads do.
The transmission often has it's own oil system and air cooling. Overheating the transmission fluid will increase transmission wear and cause it to fail sooner.
Brakes are specifically designed and manufactured to turn kinetic energy into heat. That is their entire purpose. To instead use the transmission for this seems a bit odd.
Also, you could let off the brakes and let them cool a bit before glassing them or boiling the brake fluid to avoid catastrophic failure of brakes.If you leave the car in a lower gear then the energy goes straight back into the engine itself, where it bleeds off energy by repeatedly compressing cylinders full of air. The transmission doesn't come in to it any more than when you're doing 160 km/h down the highway. If you feel worried, you probably have an engine RPM gauge and an engine temperature gauge to monitor.
What is a different matter entirely is the clutch, which can get overheated if you let it slip continuously, and doing that's a Bad Thing™. But that's more a high-congestion thing than a downhill thing. Though maybe (traditional) automatic transmission is different in that regard?
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@Carnage said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
in an automatic you potentially dump it in the transmission, unless I'm mistaken. Which is entirely possible.
It'll depend on what type of automatic gearbox it is.
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@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Carnage said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
in an automatic you potentially dump it in the transmission, unless I'm mistaken. Which is entirely possible.
It'll depend on what type of automatic gearbox it is.
Yeah... After reading a bit more about the topic
, turns out I'm both a bit right and a bit wrong.
Manuals can also overheat if you use very low gears. And automatics doesn't have to.
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@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Though maybe (traditional) automatic transmission is different in that regard?
Something with a torque converter which slips at lower speed is probably similar. Something with internals closer to a manual is probably different.
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@loopback0 Looked up a reference I consider reliable:
For automatics they basically indicate they should be kept in a fixed gear - just like a manual.
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@boomzilla said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
There ain't no such thing as manual mode of automatic gearbox Semi-automatic at best
Whether it's pedantically that or not, it's what the mode is called in the car.
It's called "Sport" mode on mine, I believe (and labeled "S" on the main shifter). I have never intentionally used it.
It is called Sport mode in my car as well, I however do it use when the weather is bad. Forcing my car to say in first gear when going down steep hills in the winter is far safer than feathering the brakes on the way down.
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@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
For automatics they basically indicate they should be kept in a fixed gear - just like a manual.
Yeah, I was just referring to the similarity to overheating the clutch.
Fixed gears on automatic isn't always possible. Some don't even stay in gear if you lift off.
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@Dragoon said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@boomzilla said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
There ain't no such thing as manual mode of automatic gearbox Semi-automatic at best
Whether it's pedantically that or not, it's what the mode is called in the car.
It's called "Sport" mode on mine, I believe (and labeled "S" on the main shifter). I have never intentionally used it.
It is called Sport mode in my car as well, I however do it use when the weather is bad. Forcing my car to say in first gear when going down steep hills in the winter is far safer than feathering the brakes on the way down.
When I lived in hilly areas (downright mountainous compared to where I am now) I would often use lower gears (this was before "Sport" was a thing, but you still had L or 2 available on the shifter).
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@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Some don't even stay in gear if you lift off.
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@boomzilla said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Bulb said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
There ain't no such thing as manual mode of automatic gearbox Semi-automatic at best
Whether it's pedantically that or not, it's what the mode is called in the car.
It's called "Sport" mode on mine, I believe (and labeled "S" on the main shifter). I have never intentionally used it.
I've often wondered why it was an "S". I thought it stood for "suggested", since, you know, it doesn't necessarily shift to the gear specified...
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@loopback0 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Fixed gears on automatic isn't always possible. Some don't even stay in gear if you lift off.
Yeah, mine does this annoying thing where if you're obviously deaccelerating it will go out of gear, especially at lower speeds. I just middle-finger it and intentionally shift to neutral. Nya!
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
IIRC, 3rd gear keeps my speed at ~65 mph, and 2nd keeps me down to ~45 mph or 50
That sounds pretty high speed for the gears IMO. Guess it depends on how steep that downhill really is.
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@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Some cars I've had the displeasure to drive re-enable it by themselves.
I didn't know there were cars that ran on Windows 10
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@JBert said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Deadfast said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@frillunflop said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Zerosquare said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I don't understand anything about all this transmission stuff. Can someone explain it using a computer analogy?
Europeans like to drive using C, Americans tend to drive with Java.
I think I found what driving assembly looks like:
https://youtu.be/QxfHMtgg2d8That doesn't sound right.
I was thinking more of this:
LADA: Some assembly required
I get the joke but it's entirely inaccurate. The guy in the photo is not assembling his Lada, he's just performing some maintenance. With a hammer.
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The most effective way to disable traction control is to open the fusebox, look for the one that controls ABS and remove it. The abs light will come up, maybe an error will appear pleading you to go to the shop in order to fix it, but you'll be able to drive it without any interference from the fun police.
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@Zerosquare Not BMW
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@topspin said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
IIRC, 3rd gear keeps my speed at ~65 mph, and 2nd keeps me down to ~45 mph or 50
That sounds pretty high speed for the gears IMO. Guess it depends on how steep that downhill really is.
Google says I-80 through Parley's Canyon has a grade of 3% to 6%.
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@TimeBandit said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@Zerosquare Not BMW
I wonder whether it's actually true. I know for sure VW (and the other concern brands, as they share components) used Windows CE in many controllers, but the only hardware I met that was for BMW and actually production ran on VxWorks, so maybe they really don't have any Windows there.
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@PleegWat said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
The transmission is designed to take more wear than the brake pads,
As I've always understood it, it's not about wear but about where waste heat goes. If you use the bakes, then the waste heat heats up the brakes, which have relatively limited thermal mass and are air-cooled. If you use engine braking, the waste heat goes into the engine, which has much higher thermal mass and is water cooled via the radiator, which probably gets more airflow than the brake pads do.
Yes, this is called brake fade. It is especially a problem for heavy vehicles. In Australia there is even a dedicated sign placed atop steep or long declines:
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@Deadfast said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
In Australia there is even a dedicated sign placed atop steep or long declines
We have those in mountainous areas in the USA, too.
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@Deadfast said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
In Australia there is even a dedicated sign placed atop steep or long declines:
@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
We have those in mountainous areas in the USA, too.
And my axe.
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@TimeBandit said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@acrow said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
I hate few "safety" features as much. It makes winter driving hell.
You usually have a button to disable it. This can also be disabled by reprogramming your car computer.
A few cars ago, I found out I had one where the traction control could not be disabled at all.
Not fun if you're parked on some snow. I had to borrow a shovel somewhere to clear a patch for the wheels to gain traction.Toyota...
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Unlike most people, AFAIK, I do make use of the lower max gearings, especially when I'm driving downhill.
I've had automatics that decide "screw you, I'm shifting anyways because it's more efficient". And suddenly I started accelerating on the downhill. Ever since then, I've had a complete mistrust of autos. A manual can't decide to shift.
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@Luhmann said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
Maybe check first if blinkers are included in the beamer.
$1000USD add-on, amiright?
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@dcon
As long as that translates as an lease price increase of €100 and a tax increase of €1 I'll take it.
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@djls45 said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
We have those in mountainous areas in the USA, too.
And run-away truck ramps for when they fail to heed said signs.
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Here's one for the "driving on the job" category (found on facebook):
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@Benjamin-Hall Ah, I see you found the driving equivalent of JavaScript "programming"
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@ignacio I dunno, the most effective way to disable traction control in my car is to press the button marked DSC OFF to the left of the steering wheel.
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@blek said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
@ignacio I dunno, the most effective way to disable traction control in my car is to press the button marked DSC OFF to the left of the steering wheel.
and as an added bonus, it doesn't compromise the safety features of the car!
(well, no more so than turning traction control off does, but it doesn't also take out ABS)
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@blek Really, at least on my car if you disable the traction control it reengages when you drive at speeds over 30km/h so that button is kinda useless if you want to drive on sand when you don't want the ABS controller to work, specially when gaining momentum to climb a sand dune
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@sloosecannon If you are disabling traction control, you are very aware why you are doing it. So to be worried about disabling other safety features it does not make sense
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@ignacio said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
if you disable the traction control it reengages when you drive at speeds over 30km/h
On my summer car (2007), it does something like that if you just press DSC OFF momentarily, but it completely disengage if you maintain that button pressed for something like 10 seconds. It will re-enable itself only after you turn the car off.
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@TimeBandit said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
On my summer car (2007), it does something like that if you just press DSC OFF momentarily, but it completely disengage if you maintain that button pressed for something like 10 seconds.
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had a test drive with the BMW X1 today ... total schocker ...
blinkers are included as a defaultI might have to change my road persona to be more in line with the car ... I'll have to ask the dealership if they have an instruction video on how to be a total ass in traffic
better start practicing: you're all tossers
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@Luhmann If you're still looking at alternatives, I've borrowed an Audi Q2 from my local dealer a couple of times which was pretty decent.
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@Luhmann said in Driving Anti-Patterns - Necro Edition:
had a test drive with the BMW X1 today ... total schocker ...
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@loopback0
Unfortunately I'm not in control over the short list or budget. On the up-side: I'm also totally unbothered by the vehicle cost, operating costs, gas price and taxes except for the small part they take out of my paycheck as 'tax on personal usage of company provided transportation'.
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@boomzilla That sounds fun but I think it could be made better easily:
Use some laser guns rather paintball guns, and couple the receptors on each go-kart with the power, so that hitting a target slows down your opponent for a few seconds. This way you get a real bonus out of shooting someone, and you can truly balance driving vs. shooting.
You can then introduce how many Mario-like tweaks you want, different targets that slow you for different time spans, slow-down time that changes with your performance (so the last one is harder to freeze than the first one, to bunch up the field), or even have targets that actively brake you for extra fun! Or make it a team-race where hitting a special target on your team mate actually speeds them up rather than down...
(it's probably easier to do that coupling with electric go-karts because everything is already electronic, but it's probably doable on a regular go-kart as well)