Discourse DMZ
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No seriously help I need more best practices
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You can buy java beans at your local pete's coffee shop. Don't go with starbucks though, those assholes are expensive and taste is meh.
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Oh Christ, he's turned into another Atwood. Next he'll be following me on Twitter and asking if I want to play Battlefield games. Fuck.
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Personally, I think every company should hire a "chief Troll" for every team.
Responsible for...
- Telling all devs they are doing it wrong
- Causing internal conflict between all devs
- Posting cat pictures
Imagine how much better all software would be.
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We'd have some serious internal competition for that role
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blakeyrat rarely posts cats, afaik. Otherwise you guys could probably hire him for that position.
Filed Under: With you posting, there are now at least 3 Discourse-devs active here at the same time → new record? | Not sure if anybody can afford themselves a blakeyrat, though!
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Can an admin please rename blakeycat to bestpractices tia
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Why do you ask me? Your Userlevel is Admin, mine is
LeaderveteranRegular User;PFiled Under: what does "tia" stand for at the end of your post?
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@blakeyrat Battlefield twitter sounds amazing.
On a more serious note:
@eviltrout
Here's the current problem.- Discourse is supposed to be commercial software
- The devs came over (well, some of them) and the devs were reasonably well received, the software was not.
- Jeff doesn't understand the difference in a community that breaks / develops a software for a living, and bemoans or laughs at bad practices, and typical troll style youtube or reddit comments. Proceeds to make a terrible impression on the community
- Sam treats it as a (more or less) professional venture, responds to trolls in a (more or less) professional way, and was reasonably well received by the community, despite the software.
- Jeff proceeded to take his beef out on people who went to meta.d to report legitimate issues, and TDWTF responded by trolling over there (well, various members of the community)
- Escalation
Ultimately, it's because the boundaries are piss poor defined for what the discourse team is trying to achieve.
You're either
A) Attempting to be part of the community, and here that means pot shots and lots of them
or
B) Acting as a developer of a professional commercial applicationWhen mixing and matching happens, bad results occur.
Proposal: Prefix your posts.
[spoiler]Developer Viewpoint[/spoiler] OR [spoiler]EvilTrout Viewpoint[/spoiler]
And we as a community can respond with the appropriate level of professionalism. We Pick, prod, and poke, but we know how to be professionals too. It will be your job to NOT conflate the two, and clearly state the stance you are trying to take.
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The non-javabean blakeyrat trolling is approved.
However, the javabeans thing is just stupid.
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[spoiler]Developer Viewpoint[/spoiler] OR [spoiler]EvilTrout Viewpoint[/spoiler]
I like it, and not just because you spoilerplated it.
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FunFact: This topic is the most replied topic in the Bug-category. It has more than twice the amounts of posts than the second place!
Filed Under: When was this derailed? Post 3?
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I have it on good faith that it made it to at LEAST post 6 where we were discussing it on meta.d
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post 3 was you talking about unrelated username/avatar display
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http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/pjh-please-dont-update/2914/12?u=matches
Though I'm not sure if it counts, because those posts were deleted from meta.d...
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It's all on the same page darkmatter, scroll down!
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Just because it's on topic THERE doesn't mean it was on topic HERE!
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EvilTrout Viewpoint: this is the best post I've read on this forum.
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EvilTrout Viewpoint: yeah I knew. I just couldn't think of anything more best praticey. I'll try harder next time.
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annoyed user viewpoint: please can we have it NOT collapse all the open/expanded sections relating to a post when we click likes or any other UI updating element on said post? I was reading the back-reply expanded from your post to see which post was the "best post" and hit like on your post and what I was reading vanished and my scrollbar goes crazy and I end up barely even close to the post I was actually reading.
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Mention bombs with ninja edits should be addressed too.
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Developer Viewpoint: you guys have some valid concerns for sure. I wonder how much of it was getting off on the wrong foot.
I'm sure there's nobody at CDCK who thinks we've done a perfect job prioritizing or that every thing we worked on turned out great.
I'm sure there's nothing I can say that will make those of you who are unhappy suddenly like it, but I think we've come a long way so far and I hope discourse continues to improve.
Why are you forced to use it though? I don't get that. If vbulletin is better or something, why suffer?
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It's been installed. Thats pretty much it.
Filed Under: @apapadimoulis likes it, I guess
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Why are you forced to use it though? I don't get that. If vbulletin is better or something, why suffer?
Because @apapadimoulis owns TDWTF, and he decided to use it. Some of us expressed concerns before it was installed, but those concerns did not dissuade Alex.
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@apapadimoulis's fault! He did it!
But he's sent me like 3 mugs in total, so I don't know, maybe it's karma for accepting the dark seductions.
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Jeff isn't interested in what I have to say because my experience is immediately deemed irrelevant because I happen to have been a developer on one of those toxic hellstew PHP forums. I'd be quite happy to have shared the various things I've learned in 5 fucking years of working with people running forums with him, if he didn't automatically assume that I must be wrong because I don't buy into his BS.
Yes, there is a serious problem with communication. I personally am quite willing to be told 'no' to certain bugs not being bugs, but only if I am convinced you've listened to what I've said in the first place. Jeff didn't. Sam mostly does. Haven't seen too much discussion from your good self.
Discourse has come a long way, wouldn't argue that, but the truth is that we keep finding issues that we feel shouldn't have mad it this far in. So many issues we've noticed are because of design decisions (like accepting HTML/Markdown/bbcode with all kinds of fun inconsistencies) that could have been better thought out. Especially those of us who've worked on forum software directly.
As for how come Discourse happened here... Alex and Jeff are friends. I totally get that. I wasn't even that averse to Discourse when I first came here, though I understood Lorne Kates' aversion to it but I gave it a fair shake. The problem is, I keep finding issues that seem like they should have never been issues...
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Why are you forced to use it though? I don't get that.
This is a big factor:
Alex and Jeff are friends.
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Huh he's never mentioned that. What's up with the forum linked to on the home page though?
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Why are you forced to use it though?
The draw to this site is the people and discussion, not the software.
If I want to engage with the people, I'm forced to use the software. If I want to join in the discussion, I'm forced to use the software.
I don't believe Atwood is right about what constitutes "civilized discourse" online. I think most of his ideas are wrong-headed. But I don't get the choice to opt-out if I want to engage with the community.
This is something I tried to convey to Atwood early on, before it was obvious that it was useless: if he was so confident that his version of "civilized discourse" were really better than the existing method, he should have implemented both. If he were right, people would like the infinite scrolling crud and he could feel honestly vindicated. If he were wrong, people like me could still be happy using it the "old fashioned way", and he still has happy customers.
Or, put slightly differently: if you want to compete with forum products, you implement the feature-set of those forum products first, then add on your special differentiation later. You don't compete with Excel by creating a product with fewer features than Excel. Similarly, you don't compete with Community Server by creating a product with fewer features than Community Server.
(And, BTW, even right now, months after Discourse development, it's nowhere even remotely close to matching the feature-set of Community Server. And CS was the worst of the traditional forum software.)
What Atwood's doing instead is saying, "my way is better and, oh BTW, I'm forcing you to use it." That's crap. Then to explain this decision, he utters idiotic bullshit like, "I'm building a Ferrari, not a pickup truck".
That is why it's likely I will probably never like Discourse, at least not until Atwood's philosophy on that point is reversed.
If vbulletin is better or something, why suffer?
I'd fucking love to. Tell me how.
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Not updated in 7 years and has a goodly number of abuse factors like XSS. Look up 'signature guy' sometime.
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That were the old forums. They also had "interesting" quirks.
They were supposed to be merged to Discourse as some kind of site-overhaul. Discourse is a lot more modern that the CS-board.
Filed Under: Site-design is supposed to change, too
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Not quite accurate, our version was the 'last free version' - The project still exists today, but the licensing is expensive and @apapadimoulis wasn't footing the bill.I was conflating community server / vbull.
vBull licensing is expensive.
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Huh he's never mentioned that. What's up with the forum linked to on the home page though?
First, here's a reference:
Alex and I are friends from way back,
Second, that's the old Community Server forums. Apparently Alex hasn't updated that link yet.
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I'm pretty sure people here have also suggested not using vBulletin but using XenForo if wanting a paid PHP forum option like vB.
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Why don't we just IRC?
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I have an app for that.
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#tdwtf
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Having seen the clusterfuck that vBulletin 5 is, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.
XenForo is good under the hood even for PHP, though it's not as featureful as vBulletin of old was.
I'd recommend SMF personally not necessarily because it's better but because I'm fluent in it and it's never had the kind of battle testing you guys would give it... Perhaps we should get SMF 2.1 (in-dev version) here? It could definitely use a shakedown.
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Because it's not 1994?
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Perhaps we should get SMF 2.1 (in-dev version) here? It could definitely use a shakedown.
There's no way in shit you'll ever convince Alex. It's hopeless.
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I know. But seriously though... let's say Alex did hypothetically do that. I'd certainly pitch in with configuration and servery stuff. (And you can even run it on Windows if you're brave)
Would you be interested in battle testing something open source? I know I've given them a hard time in the past but things actually seem to be on the up and up with getting things sorted out...
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Oh yeah, I forgot that we should use software that doesn't work these days.
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I don't see the point in talking about hypotheticals. When you convince Alex to toss Discourse, then we can have the discussion as to whether people want to battle-test SMF.
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Nope.avi
Php and mysql version requirements are far to low.
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