I'm still a grumpy cat: a final plea to Alex
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That is because it is loading more posts. Scroll all the way to the top of this topic, then drag it around, even though post are unloaded the scroll bar remains stable.
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My intention was not to gut the community, but if a side-by-side trial of some new software is the sort of thing that breaks it, then it must have been a pretty shitty community to begin with. Let it break. I want no part of such a community.
Oh wow. So the three funniest and most prolific posters were part of a pretty shitty community that you want no part of?
That's not good.Fortunately, I think this community will survive and thrive after this trial... but it will change, if for no other reason than the fact that you're quitting. You and the others that have quit will be missed.
Fortunately. Or unfortunately, depending on your perspective.
They will be missed as they were a vital part of what made the old TDWTF. There's no point in any of the rest of us making any threats because, if you don't give a shit about them leaving (beyond a condescendingly throwaway "you will be missed") then you sure as hell won't care about the rest of us.For what it's worth, I've warmed to @sam, after he "got" what we were all trying to say and genuinely seems to want to build bridges, but it's just not worth it for this forum - it didn't need to move to something so bleeding edge and when you spend all the time fighting the software, you forget what you were there for in the first place.
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@sam: have you just fixed unloading on the desktop? I currently seem to have all 101 posts on the page and can move up and down the list with the slider just perfectly!
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So the three funniest and most prolific posters were part of a pretty shitty community that you want no part of?
Who are the three again? I'm assuming @Lorne_Kates and @blakeyrat. I can't think of the third. Did someone mention @morbiuswilters up thread? I don't see any evidence that his absence is other than his normal coming and going.
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The plan is to eventually have a custom scrollbar
I'm basically Stockhoming the fuck out over the reinvention of all these basic UI controls.
I'm still waiting for the fabled ember.js update that should make it all fast. Meanwhile, performance of this experimental software is on-par with tried-and-true html-paged forums. As for me... I post.
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skotl said:
So the three funniest and most prolific posters were part of a pretty shitty community that you want no part of?
===where a nested quote should be===Who are the three again? I'm assuming @Lorne_Kates and @blakeyrat. I can't think of the third. Did someone mention @morbiuswilters up thread? I don't see any evidence that his absence is other than his normal coming and going.
Don't take this the wrong way but, along with Ben, you seem to be one of the few people who are in favor of all this upheaval, so I'm not expecting you to agree with me.
And yes, Morbs is one of the three.
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Don't take this the wrong way but, along with Ben, you seem to be one of the few people who are in favor of all this upheaval, so I'm not expecting you to agree with me
I was against it (sort of) before I was for it. We can all agree that @blakeyrat and @Lorne_Kates left due to Discourse. For varying definitions of left.
And yes, Morbs is one of the three.
Then you really need to reduce your count to two. @morbiuswilters was originally typically vitriolic regarding Discourse, but took a different tone when @sam began seriously engaging the community and addressing bugs, especially the xss thing that Morbs found. Here was his last meta post:
http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/poll-infinite-scrolling/364/39
...and given his pattern of coming and going back in the CS days, this seems like another time when he's actually working or whatever it is he does when not abusing his fellow forum goers.
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OK, so I may have been a little cranky when I wrote that; sorry if I came across like an asshole.
What I meant was something like... using that favorite bar analogy... if your group of friends break up because the menu changes at your favorite watering hole, you guys were never good friends to begin with.
I actually do care about the community here, as hopefully is evidenced by not just trying to make it better (the whole move from CS to begin with), but listening and being responsive to y'all's feedback.
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or whatever it is he does when not abusing his fellow forum goers.
Animal husbandry.
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if your group of friends break up because the menu changes at your favorite watering hole, you guys were never good friends to begin with.
Oh, I thought the analogy would be about all going to a different bar. And they don't have your favourite beer.
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Most bars don't have my favourite beer.
Filed under: This is a consequence of my taste in beer…
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Animal husbandry.
We didn't asked about your porn preferences, please keep it civilized.
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I haven't read all the posts here, 108 posts is a significant barrier to reading (insert snarky Discourse feature request here). So this may or may not be on-topic. Most likely not.
Personally, given how many developers are here, I would have preferred to see a community effort to develop a new forum engine specifically for TDWTF. It would have been a fun project, we'd have gotten to know each other a bit better as developers instead of as rabid spewers of inflated and exaggerated WTF hate, and chances are we'd have made a decent product that could be released on one of the non-sucky open-source licenses along with an interesting point on all of our resumes. And all the little easter eggs that would undoubtedly have been included... I would almost bet my life there would be a user group with HTML validation turned off, allowing signature abuse again. Or "wooden table" IMG tags that auto-edit the picture to be a scan of a printout on a wooden table.
Instead, Discourse. Meh. "Meh" best describes my attitude towards it now. It's not awesome, but it's not horrible either. I think it's mediocre, just like CS was, but for a different reason. CS had great usability but mediocre security and was certainly a cesspool of naive WTF code. Discourse feels opposite. It seems more secure but the UI/presentation layer is mediocre at best and almost certainly a cesspool because of how inifiscroll totally breaks everyone and everything's (including the browser) expectations of how a web page works, and all the WTF-ery that goes on to try to make it work. For a very bad car analogy that the pedantic dickweeds will spend 12000 posts picking apart, it's like souping up a Prius so you can safely tow your 16,000-pound toyhauler. The basic premise is broken and the engine/transmission modifications, upgraded suspension and wheels, and all the other stuff you'd have to do to make it work is a supreme WTF.
The only modern forum system I've used that actually looks and feels like an awesome product is XenForo. Almost everything else is mediocre by comparison.
Discourse isn't driving me away though. I sometimes spend months in lurk mode so if I disappear it's because I don't feel like talking, not because I'm protesting.
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using that favorite bar analogy... if your group of friends break up because the menu changes at your favorite watering hole, you guys were never good friends to begin with.
I have the impression some are gone because the owner finally decided to fix the pluming. Having the plummer walking in and out and making remarks to the bar dwellers while he fixed after installation leaks didn't help to sooth the mood.
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I clicked
Likesince I do think this could be fun. Then again, knowing this community we'd never get past the "TRWTF is <insert language here>" stage.So consider this a "In a perfect world..." kind of
Like
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There is a significant possibility we'd end up with a forum engine that requires PHP, Ruby, Java, ASP .NET, Python, Cobol, Windows, and Linux to all be installed at the same time. And the backend datastore would be a mixture of Excel spreadsheets, Lotus Notes, CSV files, SQL Server, and Oracle.
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Personally, given how many developers are here, I would have preferred to see a community effort to develop a new forum engine specifically for TDWTF.
It was mooted. More than once as I recall.
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There is a significant possibility we'd end up with a forum engine that requires PHP, Ruby, Java, ASP .NET, Python, Cobol, Windows, and Linux to all be installed at the same time. And the backend datastore would be a mixture of Excel spreadsheets, Lotus Notes, CSV files, SQL Server, and Oracle.
Oh, I thought the idea was that we would make it... sane.
In that case, commence the planning. I'm off to download Oracle Linux and install it on a Mac.
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given how many developers are here, I would have preferred to see a community effort to develop a new forum engine specifically for TDWTF. It would have been a fun project, we'd have gotten to know each other a bit better as developers instead of as rabid spewers of inflated and exaggerated WTF hate, and chances are we'd have made a decent product that could be released on one of the non-sucky open-source licenses along with an interesting point on all of our resumes.
This has been suggested before. It never happens because people don't have the time to develop a forum because they have jobs.Also, there's plenty of forum software already. (My guess is the reason Discourse is so radically different merely so it stands out.)
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Hmm, somehow I missed that. I was probably in lurk mode in 2009.
Funny enough, my first ever C# project was a forum engine I wrote during a summer break just for fun so I could learn C#. It was a mass of WTF-ery on the design end because I hadn't learned that Tables Are Bad™ yet, but it was pretty functional.
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an awesome product is XenForo
How could a box where you type things and a page where you read other things be so incredibly more awesome than other implementations?
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What I meant was something like... using that favorite bar analogy... if your group of friends break up because the menu changes at your favorite watering hole, you guys were never good friends to begin with.
To keep with that analogy: a group of people who regularly meet at a bar are usually called "regulars", not "friends".If the owner of the bar (the publican, whatever...) throws out Guinness in favour of Murphy's, there might be some moaning, but the regulars will usually stay.
If the owner of the bar throws out Guinness together with the shoddy old "pub" style to become more modern (a sports bar perhaps), then the regulars will not feel at home any more, and those, to whom the bar had been some place like home, will eventually leave.
But the bar owner might attract new guests by the change as well. If a market for a sports bar exists, then people who wouldn't have come before might now make the bar their favourite waterhole.
There is no guarantee for that however; I've seen mom & pop restaurants fail when they tried to move upmarket.
You are the publican; if you want to change the menu, so fine. If you attract enough new customers to make up for those that leave... I don't know. My entirely personal feeling however is that you don't. Because I have the impression that even the front side comments still running on CS are suffering in that they don't attract as many posts as before the transition phase to Discourse began.
And the discussion on Discourse is almost entirely about Discourse and not TDWTF.
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It's very smooth and reliable and it does all kinds of modern AJAX-y stuff without feeling slow like Discourse. And it acts very much like vBulletin before they went full-retard. It's actually the same developers who moved on from vBulletin when they were bought out.
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Can you select a bit of text and quote that instantly in your post, like CS and DC?
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CS had great usability
Mostly, I remember hand jamming
noodleshtml tags due to the ancient and non-updateable editor. And the server hangs when going to the preview tab (can I tell you how much I don't miss the preview tab?). Or my comment not showing up for a while. And unreliable haven't read yet functionality.
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And unreliable haven't read yet functionality.
I read that via the The Not Read forum, which is 100% reliable.
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And the discussion on Discourse is almost entirely about Discourse and not TDWTF.
Because Discourse is the real WTF now!
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And the backend datastore would be a mixture of Excel spreadsheets, Lotus Notes, CSV files, SQL Server, and Oracle.
Rather than reinventing the wheel, why don't we just use a shared Excel workbook? We could have one worksheet for each topic.
To support our beloved scripting vulnerabilities, we can just ensure that everyone has macros enabled.
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And Swamp Search!
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Rather than reinventing the wheel, why don't we just use a shared Excel workbook? We could have one worksheet for each topic.
Why use something as overdeveloped as Excel? Let's just simply open an IRC channel and everything is fine!
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Let's just simply open an IRC channel and everything is fine!
That has too high a chance of working. In TDWTF spirit, the solution should be completely unfit for purpose. We'll create workarounds for the issues we find after we put it into production.
Filed under: [u]Fr[/u]agile Software Development
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To support our beloved scripting vulnerabilities, we can just ensure that everyone has macros enabled.
That's not vulnerable. Not if we use frames.
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That's not vulnerable. Not if we use frames.
Okay, we'll just type commands that people can copy and paste into their console / terminal windows.
Filed under: sudo rm -rf ~/pr0n
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Okay, we'll just type commands that people can copy and paste into their console / terminal windows.
:(){ :|:& };:
Filed under: TRWTF is the Wikipedia article on forkbombs
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This post is deleted!
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That has too high a chance of working. In TDWTF spirit, the solution should be completely unfit for purpose. We'll create workarounds for the issues we find after we put it into production.
Yes, you are right, I realized that as well in the meantime.More, it would completely ignore that vast stack of "how-to-do-things" TDWTF represents. I mean, that's years and years of carefully documented wtfs; a forum software for TDWTF should implement them all or at least aim at doing so.
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What do you mean "we will create workarounds"? I was under the impression we were already in the post-release phase having created workarounds!
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@Lorne_Kates said:
ALL old forum content should be ported over, with the exception of anything deleted as spam, and obviously not user passwords. A contiguous, uninterrupted flow of conversation is a 100% absolute must for any social software change. You don't need to give people reasons to stop discussing, stop conversing, stop posting. Killing conversations in mid-stream is 100% guaranteed to do that and is, honestly, extremely disrespectful towards the people in the middle of the conversation. If it isn't possible to port information into Discourse, something that every other forum software on the planet can do, then Discourse is unsuitable for a forum, for this forum especially, and should not be used.
Who want to read Septic tank thread in Discourse?
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And Swamp Search!
Fucking hell, problem solved, no idea why none of us figured it out before!
We make the entire forum a single editable text file we can just search through! Hell, SSDS source code is probably still around, maybe we can take some of the
genius algorithmsnoodles from that and Swampy's your uncle!
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Yes. They work. Now we even have shorcut in menu.
Assuming that you already have a post bookmarked. Otherwise, you have to bookmark a post and then refresh the page. This holds true for the bookmarks page in your profile as well.
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OK, so I may have been a little cranky when I wrote that; sorry if I came across like an asshole.
What I meant was something like... using that favorite bar analogy... if your group of friends break up because the menu changes at your favorite watering hole, you guys were never good friends to begin with.
I actually do care about the community here, as hopefully is evidenced by not just trying to make it better (the whole move from CS to begin with), but listening and being responsive to y'all's feedback.
Changing from CS to Discourse is more than a menu change. It's changing the decor, the menu, and the method of ordering all at once. Imagine if the Hooters down the street suddenly turned into a Red Robin. Totally different set of clients, and you are going to piss a ton of people off.
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unreliable haven't read yet functionality
In this respect, I find Discurse to be even more unreliable than CS.
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Yes, but who cares if Hooters customers are pissed?
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Yes, but who cares if Hooters customers are pissed?
Probably not many people. I was just trying to come up with a couple of (hopefully) well known restaurants that cater to very different clientele.
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Imagine if the Hooters down the street suddenly turned into a Red Robin
So you're saying... we need more of these:
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In this respect, I find Discurse to be even more unreliable than CS.
What are your "Automatically track topics you enter" and "Consider topics new when" settings? The biggest problem I had was when you'd open something and go to another tab / program, and it wouldn't mark stuff as read, but that seems to have been fixed.
Now, it's pretty reliable as far as showing me what I haven't read, whether it's new or unread. And the lists span categories, instead of having to go to different forums in CS.
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To be fair, we're not exactly the most respected people on the internet. The phrase "wretched hive of scum and villainy" comes to mind.
Filed under: in other words, we are the Hooters customers
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So you're saying... we need more of these:
No. I was trying to make a serious point that you comparing the change in forum software to a bar changing the menu just started to cover it. The change from CS to Discourse was a huge change. Changing the menu at a bar generally isn't going to begin to compare.
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The change from CS to Discourse was a huge change. Changing the menu at a bar generally isn't going to begin to compare.
At least we haven't lost the ability to stretch analogies and metaphors until they break.
Filed Under: Doubleplusgood
