Enlightened
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you look like an pissed-off jerk.
On a scale from Theo de Raadt to Jeff Atwood, where would you place him?
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I don't know anything about Theo de Raadt? I also get the sense that Jeff Atwood is mostly a jerk "by accident", meaning his ego is so huge he honestly believes he's doing the right things at all times and he doesn't have the powers of self-examination to determine whether or not he's a jerk.
This guy's just invested WAY too many emotions in a few hundred K of text files. I mean even if he has Atwood-disorder and thinks his product is perfect, he could just post nothing and leave it be... but to write long posts like that? Kind of crazy, frankly.
He definitely shouldn't be in charge of a GUI framework.
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yes - the structure is useless - it's not used as only engine specific info is returned... it's telling you to nicely to not bother reading that or caring.
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no - the controllers are done for you - you CAN writer your own and yes - you'd have to do the event handling by hand. but entries are done. buttons, lists, scrollers and much more. use them to save work.
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yes - thats the option to stop sanity checking to save a few miliseconds of startup time. it was named such to make it clear you are accepting to have no sanity checks (like are loaders installed to load basic image types like png, jpg etc.)
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as for the "you bitch" comment. that does not appear anywhere inside efl at asll. i can only assume you are full of bullshit here as with a lot of the prior "facts" you have disclosed, as a grep through our codebase for efl and elementary shows no such string:
http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1733d29922f8f1e07d63ad6be3264bc9249b3301
evas - change error out from bitch to complain - cosmetic changeHEADmaster
committer Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) raster@rasterman.com 2015-03-11 12:59:01 (GMT)Fuck off.
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@NeighborhoodButcher said:
All I can say about choosing EFL is it involved a comparison of application startup time (with differences measured in milliseconds) and a comparison of memory usage between EFL and Unity3D game engine. And no, don't ask.
you are so full of bullshit it's not funny. it had nothing to do with that, but you'd say anything to make your rant look good.
Are you on NeighborhoodButcher's team at whatever company he's working at? Because otherwise that's a strange post to quote for calling him full of bullshit...if we were to use a spefiic typedef per object you'd either forever have to do evas_object_move((Evas_Object *)object, x, y); and that just leads to work work and work.
Or, your IDE fills in the cast for you, and in the meantime you have better information about what's accepted where and what functions are available. Any text editor someone would use besides Notepad or PINE can do this.as for the "you bitch" comment. that does not appear anywhere inside efl at asll.
As discussed above, "BITCH!" does. To most people, the "you" in that sentence is implied.
yes - our code does say "naughty programmer spank spank" and TELLS you what is wrong - eg object of wrong type or null object pointer right next to it. it is MEANT to get your attention.
But it uses language wholly inapproriate for any kind of professional programming.Let's say you (Carsten Haitzler, specifically) are giving a presentation on Enlightenment to the bosses of people you want to use it, and due to a one-bit hard drive error your code initializes an struct incorrectly -- even though it's correct in the source code. All of a sudden, "NAUGHTY PROGRAMMER!!! SPANK SPANK SPANK!!!" appears on your screen. In front of all of your customers. Projected for all to see. Do you seriously think you'll have customers, at all, after that??
now as for key names... we ensure they are consistent across platforms
Where does this list of key names come from. Is that documented?
(create and destroy sub objects on the fly if you use the lua script+only objects ... but i guess you didn't)
How does he do this from C-land?
as for edje_cc - it does NOt return exit code 0 on error.
You two should compare version numbers. It's possible his employer has forced a version on him from before that work was done.
as for EFL freeing your memory - the docs will tel you if you have to free, or EFL frees
I know they do for the C standard library, COM, OLE, and ActiveX in the Windows ecosystem, but I didn't see any documentation about who frees in any of the widget documentation you linked to.
as for genlist - ... it has nothing to do with ram - ... in order to keep memory usage down
I have no problem with virtualizing listboxes, just wanted to point out the inconsistency
we indirect to a table that is managed in order to get actual object pointers. the "pointer" exposed to apps is now an ID stuffed into a pointer for API/ABI compatibility. so no - you didn't get it.
For debugging and error reporting, what's the story for introspecting into the table to find out what IDs are valid (to help determine when or why one is invalid) or introspecting arbitrary objects from the table (to help determine why state got so badly fucked as to trigger a crash)?
we use 9 bits for generation count on 32bit.
So there is some legitimacy to the number 512. What is the generation count, and why would @NeighborhoodButcher run into its upper limit?
the rest of the 21 bits
That's 30 bits, What about the other two?
@Carsten_Haitzler said:yes ... it moved. links all there to point you there.
The links from the Trac wiki point to some mysterious non-wiki thing called Phabricator. Which you somehow felt like you needed to repeat five times, just to be extra insulting. And yes, it is too much to ask people to click on "Phriction" once they're there; who the fuck would know that "Phriction" is the new wiki, when that's only mentioned in really tiny print on the Phabricator home page?yes - the structure is useless - it's not used as only engine specific info is returned... it's telling you to nicely to not bother reading that or caring.
And if you need to care for some reason? For example, because you know what engine is in use, and something in there needs to be changed to work around an engine bug?
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That's awesome.
Huge kudos to you, @Salamander.
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nope - elm handles high level widget focus, evas handles detailed object focus as widgets are just collections of sub-objects inside them and evas deals with this layer. not ecore. nope.
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Looking from the bright side - it's now fixed, right?
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http://git.enlightenment.org/core/efl.git/commit/?id=1733d29922f8f1e07d63ad6be3264bc9249b3301evas - change error out from bitch to complain - cosmetic changeHEADmastercommitter Carsten Haitzler (Rasterman) raster@rasterman.com 2015-03-11 12:59:01 (GMT)
Fuck off.
ROFL, awesome.
Open source sure makes it hard to FUCKING LIE TO US ABOUT YOUR PROJECT, asshole.
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i literally pointed out many times where the OP just didn't read the docs - the docs were a few clicks in under an obvious section - eg widgets -> entry for the entry widget.... the elementary documentation has a "getting started" link on the first page - very first. in that is a sample app to get you started. it isn't hard to find by the OP managed to not find it.
the OP simply raved on about a litany of falsehoods - yes someone is wrong on the internet and it's time to correct them. i know.
most people find our "naught programmer" errors quite amusing and they remember them - that was the point. to make them memorable so people will look and pay attention. you personally may not like it, but the feedback from people vastly says it's good.
as for types - you didn't really pay attention to what i was saying if we used types we'd have to be casing all over the shop to make it work in c - we stick to simple object types and then do checking internally to make this work without casting-hell.
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i will calmly note problems sand talk to people if they behave that way. the OP did not.
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most people find our "naught programmer" errors quite amusing and they remember them - that was the point.
And you know this is true... how? Did you do a survey? Do you have a count of how many people saw one, and quit your library in disgust?
as for types - you didn't really pay attention to what i was saying if we used types we'd have to be casing all over the shop to make it work in c
Oh poor baby! You'd have to do more work to make things work right? Let me get you your pacifier and some warm milk.
i will calmly note problems sand talk to people if they behave that way. the OP did not.
So bugs are only bugs if the person reporting the bug behaves in a certain way?
THIS IS A GOOD WAY OF SOLVING BUGS IN SOFTWARE! NOT AT ALL COUNTER-PRODUCTIVE!
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as i said enough - most of what was pointed out was utterly wrong. but presented as fact. if someone says you are selling drugs and encouraging people to become addicted - do you go "oh - that's my fault" or if it's wrong do you defend yourself? if you built a building and someone goes around saying it's about to collapse and no one should go in it even though that is utterly false and it's solid and stable, do you just say "oh my bad. i will find the problem that doesn't exists" or do you defend?
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i did not lie. i pasted my greps. "you bitch" as OP said didn't exist. i found the bitch thanks to a correction in the comments when i finally got there. i fixed it. not hiding anything.
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"you bitch" as OP said didn't exist.
And the OP stated that he pulled the exact error from memory ... later someone mentions that it doesn't say "you bitch" but just "bitch". But you didn't bother to grep for "bitch" didn't you?
Or rather: you did bother and then silently changed that one occurrence.
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as i said enough - most of what was pointed out was utterly wrong. but presented as fact.
Guess what? That's still a problem. Demonstrably, as demonstrated by this forum thread.
The fact that the OP has these "wrong" ideas is your bug. You need to fix it. How? Better documentation (and yes, it does suck ass-- sorry), better tutorials, who knows. It's your job to figure out how.
i did not lie. i pasted my greps. "you bitch" as OP said didn't exist. i found the bitch thanks to a correction in the comments when i finally got there. i fixed it. not hiding anything.
I guess I'm just not Linux-y enough for a gigantic super brain like you. I foolishly assumed that when you searched for "bitch" you'd also find "BITCH". Maybe you should switch to a less shitty OS with a working search feature, and you'd have fewer problems like this?
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I think what @blakeyrat is trying to tell you is that you can barely win anything in this topic currently.
While we all do enjoy rants (from both sides) here they are usually not the source of information you want to trust. Especially not rants to defend one self.
The more agressive you sound while claiming your points the less the populus will usually agree.To put it in your example:
If somebody went around and said "@Carsten_Haitzlers Building is going to crash and you went after him and yelled "No, people that guy is stupid he is lying. What a jerk." Would you believe yourself?
(yes, I was paraphrasing and exaggerating with this example... but I hope you see the point of it).TL;DR: Rants and counter rants filled with anger make for a good reading time but are not really disproving much.
So feel free to rant to your hearts content but please don't assume people will change opinions because of it.Filed Under: Let me welcome you to this forum, though :D
Also Filed Under: I think I killed the topic with this now sigh
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@Luhmann said:
It's now fixed,
YOU BITCH!!!!!eleventy1111Complain!FTFY
Filed Under: You seem to be running an old version
If you're going to do the ins/del thing, at least use them properly....
BITCH!
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I think what @blakeyrat is trying to tell you is that you can barely win anything in this topic currently.
A Snowflake badge?
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If you're going to do the ins/del thing, at least use them properly....
BITCH!ComplainFiled Under: am I doing it right?
Also Filed Under: Why are so many dels not making stuff invisible?
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Or, your IDE fills in the cast for you, and in the meantime you have better information about what's accepted where and what functions are available. Any text editor someone would use besides Notepad or PINE can do this.
Yeah, it's as if IntelliJ and other tools like this don't exist.
However, you need a good documentation for that to work - that's probably the reason why they're so deadset against it :)
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counter rants
Damn it! My stupid kids keep putting shit on the kitchen counter and never put anything away!
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most people find our "naught programmer" errors quite amusing
I have no idea what kind of "people" you're around, but I wouldn't want to be in a range of a 50-feet pole of them.
Filed Under: Let me welcome you to this forum, though
I'd rather be the guy to say goodbye. We're here to laugh at WTFs, not perpetuate them.
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My stupid kids keep putting shit on the kitchen counter and never put anything away!
So they should shit in the cupboard?
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not on his team - but i know the comparison that was done and it had nothing to do with unity3d. his comment:
"All I can say about choosing EFL is it involved a comparison of application startup time (with differences measured in milliseconds) and a comparison of memory usage between EFL and Unity3D game engine. And no, don't ask."
that is entirely wrong.
as for ide's - i know of none that will magically auto-cast for you when you type - they may tab-complete the type int he cast.. but not magically do it for you. if this feature exists - it's news to me.
and yes - bitch did. it was "bitch" for complain - and yes - it should be removed. but "you bitch" did not and that is what the OP said and i actualyl looked for it.
as for the spank spank - i'd be just fine that being in public or in a meeting with management etc.
as for key names - no - we didn't document it, but it'll be the same set as you get in x11. we emulate it elsewhere. yes- maybe we should explicitly document that but to date no one has actually complained and said "i have no idea what these keys are - is it documented?". i don't remember a complaint in person nor a bug filed.
as for c land - if you want to do it in c - make a smart object. you casn use code to create/destroy/manipulate all the child elements of this object (and nest as you see fit with more types). that is how all the widgets and objects are created in efl - we use the same mechanism. so yes - possible in c.
it may be that his edje_cc was wrapped or changed - but the upstream edje_cc has always errored on an error with a nonzero error code. we compile edc files with edje_cc during build ourselves and our builds have failed when edje_cc spots an error for as long as edje_cc has existed. check the history of the code if you want to verify
as for the widget docs - if its a const char * of course you don't free - if it's a char * return (example) it'll be documented as to how to free it. if its' objects - objects stay alive until you delete them ... or the canvas they live in is deleted, or an object that has taken ownership is deleted (and objects that take ownership are in charge of deletion). it's the same throughout efl - its similar to gtk in that sense. it hasn't been explicitly documented i guess because it's a convention that is common enough.
oh and for the list boxes. i meant "it has nothing to do with ram" in that it isnt the "ram screaming in agony" - the allocation and de-allocation. that's not the problem. if it were malloc/free internals would appear in our profiles - they don't (way way way down the list).
as for introspecting the table - can you elaborate? we don't provide anything to walk the table - the table is shuffled off into a separate mmaped bit of memory outside the normal malloc pool and we even have code to mprotect the memory to be read only if you may have the unlikely event of table corruptions (eg if some code outside of eo itself is scribbling over the table memory by pure chance)
and yes - 512 has legitimacy - its' the generation count (9 bits - on 32bit,s it's much more on 64bit). he wouldn't run into the upper limit - he just wouldn't. in fact yes - i oopsied in my arithmetic - we have 23 bits for object count - so 8 million objects or so. not 2 million.
and as for trac - we shut it down long ago - we can;t edit it anymore and the links were set up before we had everything set up - why someone goes to trac, i don't know because the enlightenment.org homepage points to phab's wiki - we kept it alive in read-only mode just as a signpost .. years ago. so can't edit and fix it. and yes i'ts there five times because so often people miss a single link and ask questions. the trac pages are dead and i'm surprised people are ending up at them. how?
and as for the structure that is useless - you don't need to care - it will never be returned or used as such. it is the first member of all the engine info structs (thus common data) which is seeded by evas for evas's purposes and the developer should not modify it - they don't need to know what is there.
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slight catch - i didnt disagree - i pointed to actual facts showing it wrong - eg not being able to know the callback signals a widget emits - documented clearly. many of those. it's not opinion there. it's fact. if it were opinion - i'd not bother.
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It doesn't even make for good reading. I quite enjoyed the OP's rant, but I didn't even read all of @Carsten_Haitzler s counter-post. I wonder if his writing is even a tiny bit representative of EFLs coding and/or documenation style...
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he did not say he pulled it from memory when he made the claim until corrected. quote:
"Another extremely helpful message: “You bitch!”. And I’m not joking about that one either – it was discovered by a female coworker while trying to hack layouts to work. Perfect timing on EFL side here."
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i know of none that will magically auto-cast for you when you type - they may tab-complete the type int he cast
Try IntelliJ/ReSharper/clion (maybe?)
as for the spank spank - i'd be just fine that being in public or in a meeting with management etc.
Heh. Yep, real professional looking. Definitely a good thing.
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bitch
female coworker
You fail to see the insult potential here?
Filed under: Flamewars are fun and they exfoliate the psyche
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as for the spank spank - i'd be just fine that being in public or in a meeting with management etc.
I don't believe you.
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it's not opinion there. it's fact.
Don't even try to teach @blakeyrat the difference. Many of us have tried and failed.
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maybe we should explicitly document that but to date no one has actually complained and said "i have no idea what these keys are - is it documented?". i don't remember a complaint in person nor a bug filed.
That's because they just said, "Fuck this shit," and you never heard from them again.
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grep -ri = search recursively though all files in this dir tree (the r), case insensitive. (the i). it was there was no "you " in front of the "bitch". and as i have said - it's fixed and yes there was, but it wasn't what was originally quoted as fact (not approximation). i totally admit that the code likely should say this and that has been fixed, but when i replied to the OP i was using what he wrote as he wrote it. yes - bitch was there. but you can't expect me to go find things if i'm told the wrong information? i can keep trying permutations etc. but i was busy going through other things as well at the same time.
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slight catch - i didnt disagree -
It doesn't even make for good reading.
I think this pretty much verifies blakeyrats claim.
I thought you disagreed. Everybody else thought you disagreed. And even though you underlined your message with examples it didn't feel like you were calmly telling us how the OP was wrong but more how you were emotianlly ranting.
Filed Under: It's less about the message than portraiing said message
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i never said it was good. i never said i didn't see it. and i never said that - OP did. and the text he claimed was there was not - and i fixed it. see previous reply. what makes you think i denied that this would be offensive? what makes you think i would fail to see the insult?
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I couldn't be bothered to remember my existing username, so I used the nifty "login with github" thingy because I thought I had used that the first time I signed up. And I still can't be arsed now I have two accounts.
Aaand Dicsource gives me a 500 error. Thanks.
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nope - i didn't feel like being calm. i felt like following the tone of the OP - it seemed the kind of way of talking that would maybe be understood by the OP as that is what they used.
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grep -ri = search recursively though all files in this dir tree (the r), case insensitive. (the i). it was there was no "you " in front of the "bitch". and as i have said - it's fixed and yes there was, but it wasn't what was originally quoted as fact (not approximation). i totally admit that the code likely should say this and that has been fixed, but when i replied to the OP i was using what he wrote as he wrote it. yes - bitch was there. but you can't expect me to go find things if i'm told the wrong information? i can keep trying permutations etc. but i was busy going through other things as well at the same time.
Permutations would be... well... 2... actually.
You'd find it by removing "you". Which we already found. Upthread. (Not that you'd find it cause discosearch, but meh).Also explaining Linux tools is just asking for another @blakeyrant
Filed under: You're enabling @blakeyrants. Stop enabling @blakeyrants.
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i didn't feel like being calm
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