The Star Wars VIIIIIII: The Force Awakens FRIDGE LOGIC THREAD **NOW DEFINITELY SPOILERS**
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Is it not plausible that Luke had already also seen that exact same shiz....
It's more likely that it shows you something related to your personal possible future.
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Actually he woke up when rey showed up in the base he was in, so i'd guess she was the trigger.
which is part of my theory that luke knew she was coming to him.and it's easy enough to handwave so that luke only knew that shes coming and shes the savior but not that a bunch of planets get blown up in the process.
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yes... and luke's future involed rey meeting him on that island.... which she foresaw partially too.
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He was always a whiny wiener.
Well, he was some 18yo or so hick farmer who suddenly found his entire family killed just because he found a couple of robots, then got told about "the Force" which he almost certainly never had heard of, given that his uncle's job was to keep him away from Vader's notice, and then thrown into the center of a Galactic rebellion. A certain amount of whininess isn't unreasonable. (And one can certainly argue that he crossed that the acceptable threshold...)
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is you're putting way more thought into this than Abrams and his team of hacks ever did.
QFT, because a like isn't enough.
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Actually he woke up when rey showed up
I didn't pay close enough attention on the first viewing to be able to remember all the little details, tbh. Plus I'm caught up in so much stuff at work that my memory's a bit overloaded and I don't see that changing for another month at least.
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Actually he woke up when rey showed up in the base he was in, so i'd guess she was the trigger.which is part of my theory that luke knew she was coming to him.
and it's easy enough to handwave so that like only knew that shes comong and shes the savior but not thay a bunih of planets get blown up in the process.
Plus, that's not an unreasonable theory in isolation, but I don't think droids are generally Force-sensitive, so that just pushes back the question a level--how would R2 know she is the right person? BB-8s map piece would make more sense, assuming, as @cartman82 suggests, we're putting a lot more thought into this than Abrams did.
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my theory relies on R2 knowing to power on for rey because luke told him to due to his vision. In my theory, i dont know whether R2 knew the other piece of the map was there or not, although it may be that luke/R2 knew that if rey is there then the other piece of the map is too (though since rey had seen the map, they didnt necessarily need the bb8 anymore - provided she has a great memory ;)
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If there is one force-sensitive droid in all of starwars, though, you know it has to be r2. The one character that ever got the jump on yoda.
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J.J. Abrams Explains R2-D2's Introduction In Star Wars: The Force Awakens
SPOILER WARNING: The following article contains massive spoilers for Star Wars: The Force Awakens. If you have not yet had the opportunity to see the film we would recommend clicking away to another o
i take back my whole theory about R2. fuck you jjabrams, "r2 wakes up in a delayed response to the bb8 because whatever, we had to do something to soften the blow of losing han."
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http://www.cinemablend.com/new/J-J-Abrams-Explains-R2-D2-Introduction-Star-Wars-Force-Awakens-101197.html
i take back my whole theory about R2. fuck you jjabrams, "r2 wakes up in a delayed response to the bb8 because whatever, we had to do something to soften the blow of losing han."
Booya!
Also, from the article:
It's worth pointing out that Luke Skywalker also returns just a few moments later, which kind of hurts Abrams' point
No it doesn't, not at all, because Luke only returns because R2 woke up and showed the rest of the map.
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Terry Pratchett called it narrativium, George Lucas midichlorians. Either way, r2 has always been a plot device, and this weird coincidence just happening to put r2 in the right place at the right time is no different than hundreds of others in the previous 6 films.
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this weird coincidence just happening to put r2 in the right place at the right time is no different than hundreds of others in the previous 6 films.
Yeah, and that's why I didn't let it bother me, tbh. I just assumed there was a reason JJ Abrams couldn't be bothered to tell me, because, well, "you can make a movie full of plot holes as long as whatever the rest of that quote was".
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Either way, r2 has always been a plot device
It's perfectly fine for him to be a plot device, but I expected at least a bit more logic behind the setup than "well we had to do something good to make up for the bad thing that happened." Any reason at all beats that. He's telling me that JJ Abrams read that part of the script and didn't even once think, huh, wonder what wakes R2 up? JJ clearly could not give any less of a flying fuck about the movies he's making; it's hard to fathom how he became so big.
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Right; but at least he's not RESPONSIBLE for the events. If he wanted to quit the rebellion and hang out on an island somewhere, that's his right as a human being.
Taking after Yoda.
If he did that DESPITE knowing that his hanging out on the island would result in billions of deaths, then he's a mega-jackass.
That assumes that he could have stopped it. I figured that he thought his continued involvement would just keep making things worse.
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Homing beacon in the map that BB-8 had? Uh, with a delay, to explain why he didn't wake up immediately?
Plus you don't know what the polling frequency on the sensors was in low-power mode; it might have only been once a day or something like that. It could just have been the first time that the trigger was present when the poll kicked in, particularly as before then everyone was very busy trying to not die from a patently-absurd hyperweapon.
You know, mundane answers sometimes work. (And the real answer is of course the power of balancing the narrative, but we can get away without invoking that here.)
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Abrams has been on my hit list since Cloverfield and Lost. The guy is incapable of making a movie with a good story.
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It's worth pointing out that Luke Skywalker also returns just a few moments later, which kind of hurts Abrams' point
I didn't read the article, but whoever wrote it obviously didn't watch the movie. Luke didn't "return" anywhere. Rey, Chewie and R2 go out to find him.
That assumes that he could have stopped it. I figured that he thought his continued involvement would just keep making things worse.
Nobody realistically thought he could blow up the first Death Star, yet he managed to anyway.
Plus you don't know what the polling frequency on the sensors was in low-power mode; it might have only been once a day or something like that.
Right; but my question was: WHAT was it sensing?
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but then I remembered: actually pretty much exactly that happened, exactly that quickly, here on Earth.
Yup, didn't have much of a problem with that. Especially since it seems the Republic was just going "Welp, we sure showed them people. We destroyed their resources, murdered their leaders and ruined them socially. Problem. Fucking. Solved. What's that, nutbar Skywalker-- "always another there is" yeah right whatever go play with your light saber on some bumfuck planet. We won!
the younger replacements were actually... likable.
Plus many to this. Likable and capable, but still with a lot of room to grow and become better.
I think the only scene they didn't do a homage to was the chase through the asteroid field
They flew near one, and wisely decided not to go in it. Learning from the past, they are.
Fridge Logic: Han and Chewie have hung out for decades, and Han's NEVER tried Chewie's bowcaster weapon before?! Not once? Seriously?
Maybe Chewie just mellowed out in his later years?
Chewie, can I touch your gun?
AAAAAAA! (Translation: you are my best friend, but touch my gun and I will choke you with your own asshole)OR maybe it is a brand new gun, but just molded to look the same. It did seem way more powerful than even Han was expecting. This is the first field test they've had of it.
There's a small plot point that Finn takes a blaster rifle from the Millenium Falcon and Han nods to him letting him keep it. Not 2 minutes later, he's suddenly caught-up in an attack and shouts, "I need a weapon!"
He was loading cargo by hand onto the ship giving him a ride. He probably put down or stowed the blaster rifle before lifting cargo. It was a full sized gun. Kinda hard to sling it AND load cargo. Or the ship's captain-blob may have insisted. "If you're gonna ride, you're gonna stow your ship-killing blaster rifle first, thankyouverymuch"
WHAT A COINCIDENCE that Finn just HAPPENS to come across the female (or droid perhaps? Helmet never comes off) leader of the Stormtrooper unit he was a member of at the exact moment he needs a plan to disable a shield.
I kinda let that one ride-- though it did bug me a bit. Mostly because, why did she co-operate at all? Wasn't she brainwashed like the other Stormtroopers? I get the sense that they have not much of a survival instinct, vs. protecting their masters. "Lower the shields to harm the superweapon? No. Shoot me in the head. I live to serve, I die to serve". Unless she was one of the few free-will Stormtroopers because she's high enough up the command chain? I almost would have liked Finn (the human) to reason with her. Threaten her, it doesn't work. But actually talk his way through the brainwashing, and reach her humanity (like he did for himself)-- that would have been awesome.
As for finding her-- it's an entire planet, but it looks like most of the command and control is concentrated in a single zone. He knew where she commanded, and what her schedule was-- plus could probably ask the Sith version of Siri "Where is commander so and so".
Ok I lied: so it takes a star for fuel, but is itself built into a planet. So it can't move, presumably?
At first I thought it was like the Ringworld-- used an attractive force to cause & capture a solar flare from the sun-- feed it into a concentrator and turn that into a laser blast. I would agree with the theory that it just sucked off the outer layer, and let the sun recharge afterwards. Though they could have used that as an interesting plot point. It has limited ammo. TFO blew up the Republic homeworlds. It has very limited shots left-- but obviously The First Order isn't going to make that public knowledge. Let everyone live in fear that their planet might get destroyed from hyperspace at any moment. That's a secret the rebels discover, and exploit. They can't stop the shot, but they manage to misdirect it. It fires harmlessly out into hyperspace. Or blows up some First Order fleets or something. (Again, Finn could fuck around with the people in the lower decks in charge of the mechanics of aiming).
Now TFO has an internal conflict-- continue down the path of hatred and destruction and fire the canon again to destroy the rebels, and risk losing use of their superweapon-- or conserve ammo and engage in a prolonged ground war?
Meanwhile, since the weapon lowers the shields or otherwise drains power, the rebels are able to attack. TFO decides to fire again rather than retreating-- which puts a ticking clock on the battle-- AND allows the rebels to penetrate the shields. TFO's own internal conflict is their downfall.
Luke put R2D2 in sleep mode before leaving.
I got the impression R2D2 put himself into sleep mode. He was depressed. Hanging out with C3P0 too long. OR he did that so there'd be no chance that people could get at the map in his brain OR send him on a dangerous mission where he might be destroyed and lose critical information.
"Porkins II"
Porkins had a lot of illegitimate children. "Mah name is PORKINS, and I loves to be PORKINS!"
The dude says "launch all squadrons" of defensive fighters, but how many is that?
Given they were attacking a planet-sized base that docked star destroyers, I would peg that as "near infinite".
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BTW there's a rumor that Disney's casting for "Untitled Han Solo Film".
I hope it's just 90 minutes of Harrison Ford laying at the bottom of a pit, a huge hole in his chest, while he decomposes.
The the movie ends with the Death Planet blowing up, and you see him ripped to shreds that vaporized in slow motion.
Because Disney COULD make that movie, and still make hundreds of millions off it. Hell, they'd make hundreds of millions off of second-viewing ticket sales alone.
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Jar Jar Abrams
Thanks for that. Now I know I can ignore anything you have to say.
It's the Micro$oft of Star Wars discussions.
Filed under: All caps helps, too
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Nobody realistically thought he could blow up the first Death Star, yet he managed to anyway.
But here he had just created the next Darth Vader (and destroyed the new Jedi crop), is my point. It certainly fits with the whiny-Luke motif if he decided that he wasn't up to the task of being the adult in the galaxy (a la Obi Won or Yoda).
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@Lorne_Kates said:
I kinda let that one ride-- though it did bug me a bit. Mostly because, why did she co-operate at all?
THAT TOO!
You'd think the people they put in charge of squads of stormtroopers wouldn't instantly cave to a demand like "lower the defense shields".
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But here he had just created the next Darth Vader
That's a stretch. Sloth from Goonies created the Vader super-fan, and we don't know shit about Sloth.
(and destroyed the new Jedi crop),
Not sure where that's coming from. Is that in the film?
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Plus you don't know what the polling frequency on the sensors was in low-power mode; it might have only been once a day or something like that. It could just have been the first time that the trigger was present when the poll kicked in, particularly as before then everyone was very busy trying to not die from a patently-absurd hyperweapon.
You know, mundane answers sometimes work. (And the real answer is of course the power of balancing the narrative, but we can get away without invoking that here.)
The timer expired.
@darkmatter said:The alternative theory is what... that Luke is a weiner and ran away to let the rest of the universe die/submit to the First Order/Empire/whatever while he hides with his tail between his legs on a remote isolated island?
How about: Luke went to the remote isolated planet in search for the McGuffin to stop the Sith for good, but got stuck there without a way to communicate back.
@FrostCat said:I spent a good portion of that scene going "who the hell is that guy?"
Did you ever figure it out?
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Overall, what Lucas's been saying all this time is that evil is cunning and intelligent, while good is romantic and fucking stupid as fuck.
That wasn't Lucas. That was Brooks.
http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjA0MTY0MzEzOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwOTc0MjI3NA@@.V1_SX640_SY720.jpg
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Abrams has been on my hit list since Cloverfield and Lost. The guy is incapable of making a movie with a good story.
I don't know anything about Lost, but I liked Cloverfield because there was little story.It was the depiction of normal people acting the best they could under extraordinary circunstances; not the protagonists, but the poor sods who don't know what the hell was going on.
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Cloverfield was the worst kaiju movie in ages.
Which is a shame, because the world needs more kaiju movies.
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We don't even see Leia, a force-sensitive character, react to it, like with Obi Wan when the Empire blew up a planet we never actually see or know anything about in the first film.
Yeah, that bugged me too. She did the "ow, my feels" when Han died. You'd think she would have reacted a bit to dozens of billions of innocent people dying. Then again, no one around he reacted emotionally, either. FFS, there were people openly weeping when the Twin Towers fell, even though they'd never been to NYC, or knew anyone even remotely associated with the towers. You'd think the equivalent of "Terrorists just nuked NYC, LA, Washington, Chicago and Fargo" would elicit at least some reaction, even if
"Oh no-- my pet Bothan just died!"
"Fuck, I had a sandwich in the fridge back home that I was really looking forward to eating
"Um, my entire family and all my friends were on that planet. I'm an orphan. Everyone I knew or loved is now dead. Everything I owned. My entire heritage. I don't know if I can go on"And you'd think there'd be more of a strategic consequence for GENERAL Leia.
Well, fuck, there goes all our military and political support. Short of smugglers and those sympathetic to the cause, we have no more incoming supplies. Whatever ammo, ships and people we have, that's it. So if one of you blows up, you're taking about 1% of the rebellion with you. Try very hard not to die, please.
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Why would they?
How do you know the First Order doesn't hire bounty hunters to do their work for them? Everywhere they went, there were people ratting them out for cash. Of course Finn's first thought is "Shit we just got recaptured by the people who are chasing us who are my literal living nightmare hell this is the worst case scenario I don't want to go back and be executed or worse brainwashed and force to kill for an Empire I don't believe in fuck fuck fuck!"
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@Lorne_Kates said:
And you'd think there'd be more of a strategic consequence for GENERAL Leia.
But is that true?
Nothing in the movie tells us WHAT THE PLANETS WERE or WHY THEY WERE IMPORTANT TO THE REBELS.
Like, as far as I know, the third planet supplied them with socks. We never see rebels on any of those planets. (We hardly see ANYBODY on any of those planets, and when we do it's about 5 seconds before they go kablooey.) We never hear explanation of why the planets are important.
Maybe the rebels don't react because those planets are the galaxy far away equivalent of Detroit and nobody gives a shit about them.
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That's a stretch.
Not sure where that's coming from. Is that in the film?
It looked like we saw Ben / Kylo going all Anakin on the trainees in Rey's lightsaber vision. I thought there were other references to how he went berserk in dialog with Han and Leia. He (Kylo) obviously got a hold of the melted helmet and wanted to be the new Vader.
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Well whatever. Even if he did kill all the students, that doesn't make Luke RESPONSIBLE for the act. That's the "stretch" I was talking about.
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I don't know anything about Lost
Let me save you some trouble. A bunch of people in an airplane crash on an island. They run around finding mysterious things that make little sense and are never explained despite being important plot devices. In they end they were somewhere and something happened - I watched all of it but I still have no idea WTF it was about - except cash monies.I liked Cloverfield because there was little story.
I was fine with most of the movie but an important part of any story is a satisfying ending. The ending to Cloverfield was more like Abrams just running out of things* and just going to credits.
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I totally expected Luke to tell the chick, "I've been expecting you."
I'm glad they didn't. I did get the sense that Luke knew there was SOMEONE out there. He probably intentionally tried to find and mold them, which is the opposite of what a Jedi does. Forcing something to happen-- fighting the force and trying to shape the future-- is the Dark Side. Luke tried to do it, an got everyone killed and created the next Vadar.
So instead he said "You know what? I'm going to sit back, and let The Force happen naturally. I'll leave just enough information around so that when the Jedi who is meant to find me awakens, they'll be guided by The Force to find me. Whoever that is, whenever that is."
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R2 knowing to power
I got the impression that R2D2 wouldn't power on until things were relatively safe and calm in the rebellion, and revealing Luke's location wouldn't instantly lead to a million Storm Troopers landing on Five Star Dagobah.
So R2D2 got the news that the First Order was, at least temporarily, abated. They weren't in active pursuit of the Jedi, and were in a state of retreat. Plus there was someone there who R2D2 could "trust" (he's a fairly good judge of character). All this could have been processing in the background based on passive inputs. Who knows exactly what "low power mode" is.
At least we know LPM doesn't mean "Wake On HAN", or he'd be up already ha ha hahahahahahahahHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
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Not sure where that's coming from. Is that in the film?
There's one line in there somewhere about how he went crazy, killed all the other students, the fucked off to the Dark Side.
to stop the Sith for good
In theory, the Sith were stopped for good already. These are the First Order, not the Sith.
But to your point: Trying to stop the Dark Side "for good" is exactly the wrong thing for a Jedi to do.
But is that true?
Nothing in the movie tells us WHAT THE PLANETS WERE or WHY THEY WERE IMPORTANT TO THE REBELS.
They were the seat of the Republic. Big Silly Looking Emperor Golum said something like that (or maybe it was Admiral Ron Weasley)--- "We need to fire the Fuck You Gun at the seat of the republic, destroy this stupid fucking government, and be the supreme rulers!"
It could be the rebels weren't getting support from the Republic, and were acting more like independent freedom fighters. "The government ain't doing shit for you, and the First Order wants to rape your droids. Everyone else says the war is over, but we're still fighting!" Which would make them seem like survivalist conspiracy theory gun nuts. Which would make sense as to why they were still hidden and understaffed. Hmm.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
They were the seat of the Republic.
And therefore...?
We don't know what the Republic is. For all we know, it's like the Vichy government in France; already conquered by the First Order. (I'm not saying it IS, I'm just saying WE DON'T KNOW IT ISN'T.)
@Lorne_Kates said:
It could be the rebels weren't getting support from the Republic, and were acting more like independent freedom fighters.
It could be a million things. Since nobody in the rebels seems to give much of a shit about the planets blowing up, maybe my "Vichy" theory is right. Who knows.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
He probably intentionally tried to find and mold them, which is the opposite of what a Jedi does.
I thought they found the kids early and began training them before they got bad habits.
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And therefore...?
We don't know what the Republic is. For all we know, it's like the Vichy government in France; already conquered by the First Order. (I'm not saying it IS, I'm just saying WE DON'T KNOW IT ISN'T.)
I got the impression that they were the government in charge after the Empire went down. They were important enough that the First Order thought it a major event to wipe out the planet. They were either a highly organized and effective government (keeping The First Order in check), or were a fledgling government just starting to stir up "who the fuck are these fuckers" trouble for the First Order. In any case, stomping them out seemed to create enough of a power vacuum that the First Order could fill.
Since the Rebellion was still the Rebellion, and not conscripted/enlisted military, I'm guessing the Republic was kinda shitty at noticing the signs of a new power rising.
The establishing shots they showed of the planet and the cities implied it was heavily, heavily populated-- like, jammed packed full populated like whateverthefuck the city-planet was that Anakin moved to and had that jump-on-cars fight scene. I can't tell these fucking Star Wars planets apart.
I thought they found the kids early and began training them before they got bad habits.
That's what the old Jedi did. I take it Luke was trying something new, and it didn't work out well, either.
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It could be a million things. Since nobody in the rebels seems to give much of a shit about the planets blowing up, maybe my "Vichy" theory is right. Who knows.
The Vichy thing doesn't make sense. If the Republic is just a TFO stooge, why would they need to destroy it? Seems more like the Republic picked up where it left of minus an evil Emperor. But it didn't seem to encompass the entire galaxy, or at least, there were places that were probably Republic only in name (e.g., Tatooine). Likely that TFO grew up out there and coalesced as some sort of insurgency.
And the Rebels are just another warlord lead group that's dedicated to opposing TFO, while the Republic has withdrawn after recent history and probably thinks TFO is the J.V. team or something.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
I got the impression
@Lorne_Kates said:
I'm guessing
@Lorne_Kates said:
I take it
<poop>
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The Vichy thing doesn't make sense. If the Republic is just a TFO stooge, why would they need to destroy it?
No it doesn't. I'm just saying we have NO idea what relationship the Republic has to either the First Order or the Rebels. All we know is their planets were blown up.
Again: for all we know the Republic was useless, and they were blown up just to demonstrate the weapon works, like Alderaan was. Who knows.
(And while the Germans wouldn't have blown up Vichy France to demonstrate a super-weapon, you could imagine them blowing up Belgium for that purpose. Or Greece.)
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I'm just saying we have NO idea what relationship the Republic has to either the First Order or the Rebels. All we know is their planets were blown up.
I recall the general dude talking about using the weapon for the purpose of getting rid of the Senate. At the very least, they were going for a coup d'etat.
But that also tells us that the Republic's government had been reconstituted after the Emperor disbanded it. I don't recall a good explanation of why the name, "The First Order." I imagine that the explanation will shed some light on this topic.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
I got the impression
@Lorne_Kates said:
I'm guessing
@Lorne_Kates said:
I take it
<poop>
Sorry, next time I'll CITATION NEEDED my links from Wookiepedia, rather than having an opinion-based discussion about a fictional government.
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I don't recall a good explanation of why the name. "The First Order."
Add 2 to the number, and change the last word to something more German sounding, like Reich.
Then put your screaming Admiral in front of a ever-so-subtle black and red flag THE SIZE OF A SKYSCRAPER-- addressing a legion of Stormtroopers.
That's why the name.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
That's why the name.
I hope not...so boring. But I guess I could alternatively interpret it as a French thing and dislike them for that.
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Luke didn't "return" anywhere. Rey, Chewie and R2 go out to find him.
Thank you, O overly pedantic rat, for your dickweedy pendantry. Everyone else in the world understood what that actually meant.
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@Lorne_Kates said:
. I would agree with the theory that it just sucked off the outer layer, and let the sun recharge afterwards.
Yes, but would the next-inner layer be dark? That doesn't seem to make sense.
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