Your brain is tiny but apparently people on this forum are now baby wimps who are afraid of scary words oh noes!!!
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You know who else is awful at drawing? Me! Oh shit...
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Oh god, that's like the cranial capacity of the freaking elephant man.
Fun fact: elephants are quite good at abstract thinking, compared to most other animals.
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Also, Shadowrun exists.
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Why can't there be cyborgs in fantasy?
Because he is the Great All-Knowing Bla- no, can't say that with a straight face
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Why can't there be cyborgs in fantasy?
Because cyborg is science fiction.
Also, Shadowrun exists.
Yeah and it's science fiction also the game sucked.
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Which one?
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THE ONE NAMED "SHADOWRUN" WHICH SUCKED!
Actually the mechanics were solid, although a few skill combinations were cheap as hell. But it shipped with like only 4 maps? DEMOS have more maps!
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*applies the infamous Chunky Salsa Rule to Blakeyrat*
Now, you know which Shadowrun should be referred to in polite company...
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I assume he means the Xbox360/PC game, even though there are 4 video games with just "Shadowrun" as the title.
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Now, you know which Shadowrun should be referred to in polite company...
THE GAME WAS NAMED "SHADOWRUN". What the fuck dood. It's printed right on the box. What am I supposed to say when a game named "Shadowrun" sucks?
I spent like $60 on that shit, and there were 4 maps and no fucking new ones patched in.
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Because cyborg is science fiction.
Why?
Would you like me to write you a fantasy story about cyborgs, just to show you what I mean?
In fact, just off the top of my head, Harry Potter contains such a thing, and I'm sure it's not the only thing.
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Can't be done.
Has been done, can easily be done, I repeat, would you like me to do it?
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In the same way that reading words can't be done.
In the same way "dry water" can't be done. Once there's a cyborg, it is no longer fantasy. Them's the rules.
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Once there's a cyborg, it is no longer fantasy.
"Today's Blakeyfact was brought to you by…"
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Look this whole thread started around the fact that Yamikuronue said she was sexually attracted to a creature that is not only not even close to human, but probably has the same IQ as the common ground squirrel. Let's get back to the topic at-hand.
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I assume he means the Xbox360/PC game, even though there are 4 video games with just "Shadowrun" as the title.
Yeah -- that's probably what he was originally referring to; polite company sweeps that under the rug like a smelly gaseous emission, though. ;)
He obviously has never heard of the tabletop RPG that is the father of all the other things called "Shadowrun" though. :P
Can't be done.
What would you call a story with a cybernetically augmented fire-breathing dragon the size of a Cessna Citation in it, then?
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Yamikuronue said she was sexually attracted to a creature that is not only not even close to human, but probably has the same IQ as the common ground squirrel
Oh look, another Blakeyfact
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He obviously has never heard of the tabletop RPG that is the father of all the other things called "Shadowrun" though.
Well just a thought here, but maybe they shouldn't have put their name on shit if they didn't want me thinking it was shit.
What would you call a story with a cybernetically augmented fire-breathing dragon the size of a Cessna Citation in it, then?
Stupid.
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:effort:
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You can be into something without it being kinky. I'm into motorsport; doesn't mean I want to fuck an exhaust pipe.
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Let's get back to the topic at-hand.
"Und, now zen, Mr. Rat... how do you feel about the topic... at hand? Hmm?"
</freud>
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Once there's a cyborg, it is no longer fantasy.
Stephen King's Dark Tower series has a giant cyborg bear. The story is much more fantasy than science fiction.
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Once there's a cyborg, it is no longer fantasy. Them's the rules.
If there's magic, it's fantasy. There can be technology as well as magic, it is still fantasy: you are allowed to include things that exist in the real world, or might exist in a world that is to some degree plausible. Stories about dragons usually also have horses in them.
The classic Standard Fantasy Setting has approximately Medieval technology, depending on the author's preference some things may be more advanced or less, but it's thereabouts. But Urban Fantasy is also a thing, set in an approximately modern world, and although I can't think of any off the top of my head, there is no reason on Earth or off it that a fantasy story could not be set in the future or a world with more advanced technology than the present, and I'm sure such works exist.
True, with Urban Fantasy and the like there is often a blurring of the line between technology and magic: they may have magic-powered things that mimic some sort of technology ('technomancy' in Discworld is an excellent example). But usually or often not to exclusion. A world can have both magic and computers without the computers being powered by magic, it's not so bizarre. Also, if we can replace someone's body parts with functioning replicas (possibly better than the original), are they not a cyborg even if it is powered by magic? And besides, you often get rules-based magic: to invert the famous quote, any sufficiently well-described magic is indistinguishable from technology - it's just technology exploiting an aspect of nature that isn't and couldn't be real.
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Stephen King's Dark Tower series has a giant cyborg bear. The story is much more fantasy than science fiction.
Up is down.
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There can be technology as well as magic,
Most of what goes by the name "technology" in SF is really fantasy, and not in the Clarkeian sense.
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Stories about dragons usually also have horses in them.
Right; a story with one mythical creature would also have a different type of mythical creature. Duh.
But Urban Fantasy is also a thing, set in an approximately modern world, and although I can't think of any off the top of my head, there is no reason on Earth or off it that a fantasy story could not be set in the future or a world with more advanced technology than the present, and I'm sure such works exist.
Based on everything I know about the word "urban", I can only assume that "urban fantasy" is simple a fantasy novel where all of the characters are black.
Also that is one hell of a whopper of a sentence.
A world can have both magic and computers without the computers being powered by magic, it's not so bizarre.
Computers aren't science fiction. Unless they're like holograms or made of crystals or something.
Also, if we can replace someone's body parts with functioning replicas (possibly better than the original), are they not a cyborg even if it is powered by magic?
Nope. Golem.
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Most of what goes by the name "technology" in SF is really fantasy, and not in the Clarkeian sense.
Correct. If you're lucky, they're at least self-aware about it (see: the "Heisenberg Compensators" that make Star Trek transporters work), but otherwise Star Trek transporters are clearly fantasy. Other elements in Star Trek, like generating energy by colliding matter and anti-matter are clearly sci-fi. But transporters? Fantasy.
When you get into the later years of Voyager with the magical Borg nanoprobes that can do literally anything at all, they might as well just swap the word "nanoprobe" with "magical genie" in the screenplay; it'd have the same effect.
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Right; a story with one mythical creature would also have a different type of mythical creature. Duh.
Horses. They have a leg at each corner, go 'neigh', and you can ride on their backs?
that is one hell of a whopper of a sentence.
Sorry. I will try to be more careful to make things easy to read.
Computers aren't science fiction. Unless they're like holograms or made of crystals or something.
Where did I say that they were?
Nope. Golem.
As far as I can see, a golem is a magic-powered robot. A flesh and blood person with golem parts would be a magic-powered cyborg. But we can disagree on that: since magic doesn't exist and biomechatronics is only beginning to exist, it's probably going to be hard to find an established definition.
The other option for cyborgs in a fantasy story still stands. I will write you a fantasy story with a cyborg.
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If you're lucky, they're at least self-aware about it
I don't think it's terribly important. I have various reasons for reading SF. If the story itself is fun, that's usually enough. Other stuff is worthwhile to me based on the ideas explored. Underlying technology may or may not be terribly plausible, though it can also be an analog for something that is.
One very interesting idea book that probably fits hard SF and fantasy very well is The Clockwork Rocket. Hmm...the sequels are out...need to pick those up.
Overall, I think "Speculative Fiction" is a better label, since it gets away from pointless Science vs Fantasy debates.
Now if only we could find a cure for puppy sadness.
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Horses. They have a leg at each corner, go 'neigh', and you can ride on their backs?
I know what a horse is. Sheesh.
I will write you a fantasy story with a cyborg.
Make it sexy.
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@CarrieVS said:
Why can't there be cyborgs in fantasy?
Because cyborg is science fiction.@CarrieVS said:
Would you like me to write you a fantasy story about cyborgs,
Can't be done.Have you ever read the Apprentice Adept series by Piers Anthony? It has magic (fantasy) with cyborgs and androids and space travel (sci-fi). I'd call it primarily a fantasy series though.
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Have you ever read the Apprentice Adept series by Piers Anthony? It has magic (fantasy) with cyborgs and androids and space travel (sci-fi). I'd call it primarily a fantasy series though.
Then they aren't cyborgs, they're golems.
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@CarrieVS said:
Also, if we can replace someone's body parts with functioning replicas (possibly better than the original), are they not a cyborg even if it is powered by magic?
Nope. Golem.
Bzzt! Wrong! Definition of a golem:
1 (In Jewish legend) a clay figure brought to life by magic.
EXAMPLE SENTENCES
1.1 An automaton or robot.[1]In other words, an animated creation which is wholly artificial. What @CarrieVs described cannot be described as a golem because it is only partially artificial. Care to try again?
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Instead of a cybernetic arm, you have a golem arm. Duh.
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Then they aren't cyborgs, they're golems.
No. There are cyborgs in the series. As in people with cybernetic parts. There are also golems.
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Instead of a cybernetic arm, you have a golem arm. Duh.
That doesn't make the individual a golem. Double duh.
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this entire topic, and everyone in it, reminds me of this quote from a very great man
Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mind-bogglingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
The argument goes something like this: "I refuse to prove that I exist,'" says God, "for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing."
"But," says Man, "The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn't it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don't. QED."
"Oh dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that," and promptly vanishes in a puff of logic.
"Oh, that was easy," says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing-Douglas Adams
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@CarrieVS said:
Why can't there be cyborgs in fantasy?
Because cyborg is science fiction.
So, you can't mix SF and Fantasy.
@blakeyrat said:Star Trek transporters are clearly fantasy. Other elements in Star Trek, like generating energy by colliding matter and anti-matter are clearly sci-fi.
But you can mix SF and Fantasy.Makes perfect sense.
Also: NSFW because horseballs.
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Fun fact: elephants are quite good at abstract thinking, compared to most other animals.
That actually is a fun fact!
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Fun fact: elephants are quite good at abstract thinking, compared to most other animals.
This holds for any animal with the slightest capability of abstract thinking. What's more interesting is how someone arrived at this conclusion.
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What's more interesting is how someone arrived at this conclusion.
They made an experiment where they put a fruit above the elephant high enough so it can't reach it with its trunk. The elephant quickly built stairs to the fruit out of the boxes lying around, on its first try, without any prior training. The experiment was repeated several times in various configurations, and elephant always reached the goal. In some scenarios, elephants had to cooperate with each other, and they passed those tests too. No citations because I don't care enough to google the relevant papers now.That kinda sounds like Portal. Without portals. And without AI-controlled testing facility trying to kill her test subject.
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You're welcome.Insightful Problem Solving in an Asian Elephant
The “aha” moment or the sudden arrival of the solution to a problem is a common human experience. Spontaneous problem solving without evident trial and error behavior in humans and other animals has been referred to as insight. Surprisingly, elephants, thought to be highly intelligent, have failed...
That is the exact opposite of abstract thinking. Everything is about visible and tangible objects. I'm not entirely convinced that what they claim in the abstract is really justified by their results.
Fun: yes
. Fact: not so much 
.See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clever_Hans
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Abstract, as in it has to imagine that it needs something high to stand on, and that it can make it out of lower things it can stand on. Or maybe I don't know what abstract thinking is?
