🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD
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@anotherusername In the first case, however, the stop sign is irrelevant; the law is not to pass stopped schoolbusses, ever, even if they lacked a sign. It's more of a reminder.
In the second case, the hand is really the stopper, not the sign.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@Yamikuronue White triangles on the road, like "everywhere" else?
Hmm.. TIL
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Haaietanden.jpg/800px-Haaietanden.jpg
Big ol' red octagonal stop signs are used "everywhere". I'm surprised you weren't acquainted with them.
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@groo said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@coderpatsy said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
I'm not sure if this is a bad idea or a good idea. It's certainly a bad idea to look at it if you get nightmares easily.
As presented by the internet, a children's book about infinity that's "pure MS Paint Lovecraftian nighmare fuel": https://www.math.brown.edu/~res/farm.pdf
what the fucking fuck did I just read?
GUYZ WE JUST DISCOVERED ANOTHER @blakeyalt
Fucking twitter shortlink bullshit.
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@Zecc said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Big ol' red octagonal stop signs are used "everywhere". I'm surprised you weren't acquainted with them.
They're very rare in most of the world, as the US-style intersections are not used (and are even illegal in the UK).
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@Yamikuronue said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@anotherusername In the first case, however, the stop sign is irrelevant; the law is not to pass stopped schoolbusses, ever, even if they lacked a sign. It's more of a reminder.
IIRC the law is usually not to pass stopped school buses while they are loading or unloading. Typically this is signaled by flashing red lights and/or extended stop sign. The law usually states this.
Alabama: while the stop signal arm is extended and displaying flashing red lights
Alaska: when red flashing lights are in operation and stop arm is extended
Arizona: school bus that is picking up or dropping off passengers... will have alternating flashing lights and a mechanical stop-sign arm extended
Arkansas: school bus that is stopped and red warning lights on the bus are activated
California: bus flashes red lights (located at the top front and back of the bus)
Colorado: stopped with its red lights flashing
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@anotherusername said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
bus flashes red lights
That's how I'm used to it being worded
@anotherusername said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
while the stop signal arm is extended
TIL.
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@Yamikuronue it does vary from state to state, so YMMV. However if a school bus is stopped without flashing lights or signal arm extended, it's usually legal to pass it.
It's also legal in some states to pass when the school bus is on the opposite side of a divided street or highway.
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@Onyx said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@anotherusername And there we idiots go and invent
This is obviously better!
Jump thru hoops?
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@obeselymorbid said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@Onyx That won't work. Yours allows one to turn around, but in order to abide with the former one has to leave their car at the sign and go home on foot (preemptive pedantry - unless there's another road going diagonally from the intersection cropped from the picture).
You're only thinking in 2 dimensions...
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@dcon said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
You're only thinking in 2 dimensions...
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@Onyx said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@dcon said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
You're only thinking in 2 dimensions...
Don't even get me started on 4-D planning!
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@coderpatsy The real question I want answered is why no one has slaughtered Gracie and solved world hunger yet
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@Lathun Infinite spoiled meat.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@Zecc said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Big ol' red octagonal stop signs are used "everywhere". I'm surprised you weren't acquainted with them.
They're very rare in most of the world, as the US-style intersections are not used (and are even illegal in the UK).
Stop signs are rare???????
I have to stop at at least two on my way to work.
(I live in Germany, my commute takes about 15 minutes)
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@aliceif Not the signs per se, but the junctions where everyone must stop and no one has right of way.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@aliceif Not the signs per se, but the junctions where everyone must stop and no one has right of way.
But what do those have to do with the conversation?
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@aliceif The US has far more stop signs because it has far more of that type of junction?
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@Zecc said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Big ol' red octagonal stop signs are used "everywhere". I'm surprised you weren't acquainted with them.
They're very rare in most of the world, as the US-style intersections are not used (and are even illegal in the UK).
While all-way-stop is one of the stupidest ideas ever, stop signs are not "very rare".
In most of the Europe secondary road crossing main road can have either a triangular Yield sign or a Stop sign, which differ only in one of them requiring a full stop before proceeding. Both of them mean a road crossing yours has a priority.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@aliceif Not the signs per se, but the junctions where everyone must stop and no one has right of way.
I don't think we have those at all... Here you either have:
- traffic lights, in which case you obey them
- a white and yellow diamond sign, in which case you have the right of way
- a yellow triangle pointing down, in which case you have to yield to the other road
- a stop sign, which means the same, but you need to get to a complete halt before proceeding
- or no signage, in which case you obey the right-hand rule (the car on your right has the right of way).
The only situations where I've seen a yield sign on all entries are the roundabouts, And That's Different (tm).
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@obeselymorbid The convention in most of Europe is for triangles on main roads, and stop signs on minor roads (not just secondary roads).
In quite a chunk of the world (the UK for example) the stop sign is for really dangerous junctions, where you can't see.
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I can't think of the nearest one to me. They are definitely few and far between.
@Maciejasjmj said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
or no signage, in which case you obey the right-hand rule (the car on your right has the right of way).
Fuck this rule with a sharp stick.
The only situations where I've seen a yield sign on all entries are the roundabouts, And That's Different (tm).
Fuck Polish drivers on roundabaouts. No offence, but if you ever feel a bit too happy and optimistic about the human race, add a non-trivial roundabout to your journey here. I recommend Rondo Radosława, outside Arkadia. ;)
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@Maciejasjmj said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@aliceif Not the signs per se, but the junctions where everyone must stop and no one has right of way.
I don't think we have those at all... Here you either have:
- traffic lights, in which case you obey them
- a white and yellow diamond sign, in which case you have the right of way
- a yellow triangle pointing down, in which case you have to yield to the other road
- a stop sign, which means the same, but you need to get to a complete halt before proceeding
- or no signage, in which case you obey the right-hand rule (the car on your right has the right of way).
The only situations where I've seen a yield sign on all entries are the roundabouts, And That's Different (tm).
Don't you have to yield when entering a road from something like a driveway?
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@aliceif said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Don't you have to yield when entering a road from something like a driveway?
Yeah, and that (driveways, parking lots and I think dirt roads). I think it's a bit different in that the code says you're not even considered a part of the traffic at this point, just entering it.
But it's still a case where the road has the right of way.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Fuck this rule with a sharp stick.
Eh, there aren't many in the wild. Usually they either put lights on those of they're supposed to be equally congested, or just put the signs up if it doesn't matter.
As for roundabouts, I agree, even a simple two-lane one has people driving according to however they think it should work.
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@Maciejasjmj said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
or no signage, in which case you obey the right-hand rule (the car on your right has the right of way).
Except when you have a four-way crossing where all roads have equal status, and cars are coming from all four directions. The right-hand rule is not sufficient then, and the deadlock is usually resolved by:
(a) Whoever is driving a BMW
(b) Whoever is male
(c) Whoever is oldest... in that order of priority.
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( - teacher in traffic school)
Ok, given this intersection, which car goes first?
The truck
Not really, if you look at the arrows, the truck is turning left...
I'm in a car, yes?
... yes?
I don't give a damned then, it's bigger, it's heavier, I'm not risking it, it goes first!
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@Zecc said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Big ol' red octagonal stop signs are used "everywhere". I'm surprised you weren't acquainted with them.
They're very rare in most of the world, as the US-style intersections are not used (and are even illegal in the UK).
TIL. It's a big world and I haven't been to most of it.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@Maciejasjmj said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
or no signage, in which case you obey the right-hand rule (the car on your right has the right of way).
Fuck this rule with a sharp stick.
I suppose your proposal is to play chicken?
I know that's how it works in practice, but it's nice that there is a rule to decide who fucked up the most in case of accident.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@obeselymorbid The convention in most of Europe is for triangles on main roads, and stop signs on minor roads (not just secondary roads).
In quite a chunk of the world (the UK for example) the stop sign is for really dangerous junctions, where you can't see.
I thought you didn't know about stop signs being used in intersections.
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@Zecc In my experience it leads to two situations.
- A normal road with some sort of small entrance, from a shop or something, so traffic moving at 50km/h has to slam on brakes.
- Idiots who remember something about 'giving way to the right' and thinking they have right of way when joining any road.
In other countries you give way to the main road if there are no markings, and there are very few places where it isn't obvious which is which.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
A normal road with some sort of small entrance, from a shop or something, so traffic moving at 50km/h has to slam on brakes.
Small entrances always yield, priority to the right does not apply to this case. It only applies to a crossing of two equal roads. Unequal meaning, entry from a parking lot etc., different surface types - if there are no signs telling otherwise, dirt roads always yield to hard surfaces, gravel to tarmac etc.
@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Idiots who remember something about 'giving way to the right'
Idiots are always the problem. It's not the rule's fault.
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@obeselymorbid said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Small entrances always yield, priority to the right does not apply to this case. It only applies to a crossing of two equal roads. Unequal meaning, entry from a parking lot etc., different surface types - if there are no signs telling otherwise, dirt roads always yield to hard surfaces, gravel to tarmac etc.
Officially, maybe. But real life doesn't behave that way (at least in Warsaw).
Idiots are always the problem. It's not the rule's fault.
It is if it's a stupid rule. It leads to stupidity like this, where the undercutting car has priority:
http://oskduet.pl/sites/oskduet/files/myimages/41/is_rys2.1.jpg
Or this, where a car can do a u-turn in the middle of the junction:
http://oskduet.pl/sites/oskduet/files/myimages/41/zawracaniey.jpg
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
the undercutting car has priority
I'm not saying it's great, but how would you implement the rule about two cars driving in adjacent lanes simultaneously wanting to change lanes? You have to give priority to someone.
@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
a car can do a u-turn in the middle of the junction
I honestly don't see a problem with this. Anyway, how often have you seen such triangular junction layout without any regulation (either lights or signs)?
BTW I do think that this is only suitable for rather small intersections with very little traffic and other solutions (main road and yielding crossing road or roundabouts) are preferable in most cases. I just wanted to comment that priority to the right is vastly superior over American style all-way-stop.
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@obeselymorbid said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
how would you implement the rule about two cars driving in adjacent lanes simultaneously wanting to change lanes?
The blue van should be moving faster than the red car, so it should have priority.
how often have you seen such triangular junction layout without any regulation (either lights or signs)?
It's a bit contrived, but to me it's the same problem. Cars travelling faster have to stop and give way to ones travelling slower (much slower, in the case of a u-turn).
priority to the right is vastly superior over American style all-way-stop.
No arguments here :)
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
The blue van should be moving faster than the red car, so it should have priority.
This does make sense at first, but I guess the situation occurs so rarely, no one really cares.
If this happens in traffic, people will just change lanes more or less at the same time and clearly defining the one on the right has priority just eases the process.
In my 12 years of driving I encountered this situation at speed over 10 km/h just twice.
Once I aborted the manoeuvre even though I was on the right and the other car was in the left lane, we both wanted to go to the middle lane. The second time both of us decided not to change lanes upon encountering this situation.@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Cars travelling faster have to stop and give way to ones travelling slower (much slower, in the case of a u-turn).
Seriously, that's the best attack you have? A very contrived U-turn on a bit contrived junction and you care about which of these cars is faster? Do you advocate for special handling of U-turns in particular? The rule is supposed to handle all situations and I prefer the rule to always be deterministic and easy to remember.
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@obeselymorbid said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Seriously, that's the best attack you have?
How about this?
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@obeselymorbid said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
In my 12 years of driving I encountered this situation at speed over 10 km/h just twice.
I envy you. I see it about three times a day on my short hop to work and back, and personally experience it at least once a week.
@obeselymorbid said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Do you advocate for special handling of U-turns in particular?
U-turns are treated specially in most situations. They even have their own sign forbidding them.
I've driven in quite a few countries now and England, which doesn't have this rule, is by far the safest I've seen.
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@coldandtired said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
U-turns are treated specially in most situations.
To entertain this idea further:
http://oskduet.pl/sites/oskduet/files/myimages/41/zawracaniey.jpgSo do you propose that the yellow car has a right of way if it turns left, but not if it does a U-turn?
How would its driver indicate his intentions to the green car?
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@obeselymorbid I would prefer no u-turns to be allowed there at all. Drivers usually don't signal they are going to make a u-turn anywhere so it's nothing different here.
To be really honest, I would prefer all the problems to be solved by the simple measure of spending a couple of $currency to paint a white line there.
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@coldandtired Painting a line or putting a sign (over here, yield lines are not that common) would solve this "problem" of course, and banning a U-turn would not be necessary at all.
Anyway, to bring it back on topic, can we all agree this is a tremendously bad idea:
A roundabout plus one of the directions being main. Very popular in Russia and a nightmare to drive through if you are not familiar with the particular circle's layout.
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@obeselymorbid said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
A roundabout plus one of the directions being main.
THE FUCK?!
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@obeselymorbid That is indeed shit. Russia is like the US in that it's big enough to not do things properly (see plugs, train tracks, etc.).
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@obeselymorbid said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
Very popular in Russia
All those "Russian drivers" videos make so much more sense now...
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@aliceif said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
THE FUCK?!
I "like" this one. It was the first one that I encountered this madness on.
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@obeselymorbid you know, I can kinda justify it. It's very likely that that specific route carries more traffic than the other ones, so they want to improve the flow of traffic from them.
But roundabouts were already designed to do that as is! And if you can't make the roundabout work like they should maybe you should give up and, oh, I don't know, use fucking traffic lights? You already defeated the whole purpose of the roundabout anyway, get rid of it!
Idiots.
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Here's what Washington, DC thinks constitutes a traffic circle:
Thanks, L'Enfant!
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@boomzilla But that one has traffic lights.
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Yeah, once you get used to it, it works, I suppose.
But really this wasn't even close to some of the more scary ones.
This is one I had to use frequently this summer:
Triangles mean the incoming road yields to the circle.
Traffic lights should be obvious.
Red crosses are unregulated junctions, meaning priority to the right is applied, so the circle traffic yields.To add some more fun - circle is 4 lanes, most of the other roads are 3 lanes each way, the one in the middle with the traffic lights is 2 lanes each way + trams.
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@aliceif said in 🙅 THE BAD IDEAS THREAD:
@boomzilla But that one has traffic lights.
Yes. There is nothing that Washington DC can't get wrong.
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@boomzilla That looks very weird at first, but I assume lights are set up in a way to utilise those straight lanes in the middle to allow traffic that goes straight through not to enter main circle at all and it works out.