:cheese: The Official Cheese Topic
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@dkf The point is that a) the cheeses of the type I mentioned are deliberately sold young, b) the block-ripening technique limits the amount of aging that the cheese can do regardless, and c) most of the people buying them either have never had sharp cheddar, or prefer milder cheddars anyway, so the block-ripened cheeses have a ready market. While plenty of wheel-ripened cheeses are cut up and sold in similar packaging (mostly by moderately upscale creameries such as Tilamook and Cabot), a lot of the cheaper supermarket cheddars are made in a way that means they go bad if they stay on the shelf for more than a month or two. While there are block-ripened cheeses that are labeled as 'sharp' or even 'extra sharp', most of those are force-matured in one way or another.
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@lordofduct said in The Official Cheese Topic:
you're allowed relabel fish in most states
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@Magus said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I actually tried some imported emmental a few months back, and the smell was rather awful, and the taste was odd, because while I liked it, I could imagine someone hating cheese after tasting it.
Thank God, I'm mot the only one. Emmental cheese is pretty popular around here, and I never really liked it. (I don't hate it either, I just think it tastes weird.)
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@asdf said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@Magus said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I actually tried some imported emmental a few months back, and the smell was rather awful, and the taste was odd, because while I liked it, I could imagine someone hating cheese after tasting it.
Thank God, I'm mot the only one. Emmental cheese is pretty popular around here, and I never really liked it. (I don't hate it either, I just think it tastes weird.)
I prefer it when it's not on its own.
Like in home-made cordon bleu or melted over pasta.
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@Magus said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@ScholRLEA I actually tried some imported emmental a few months back, and the smell was rather awful
That's really unusual, which leads me to think that either it had gone bad, or it wasn't really Emmental - or maybe you just aren't as fond of Swiss type cheeses as you probably thought. The smell and taste of Emmental should be more or less the same as most of the knock-off Swiss cheeses (which are copied from it), just more intense and sharper (especially the processed and/or sliced ones, which tend to lose most of their flavor and smell long before they reach the stores). The texture should have been firm but not hard or grainy, with medium-sized holes (compared to Jarlsberg or some softer US Swisses) and a really smooth cut. It should have been a creamy and slightly yellow color.
It might have been Gruyere, which is harder, yellower, and usually has only a few tiny holes, if any; or even Raclette, which is even harder, has no holes to speak of, and is meant to melted over an open flame and scraped off of the wedge a little at a time. If you had Raclette cold expecting it to be Emmental, I can see why you would get disappointed, though Raclette usually has almost no smell by comparison so I doubt it was that.
Bad handling can really mess up almost any cheese, though; even Limburger, if in good condition, should only smell strong, not bad per se (though most people would find to be it just too much, especially together with it's very salty taste - well, the ones I have tried were salty, at any rate - and it does go bad very fast if not handled carefully). Have you had anything else from the store you bought it from, and if so how was it?
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@aliceif said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I prefer it when it's not on its own.
Like in home-made cordon bleu or melted over pasta.Completely agree. As soon as you melt it, it's pretty awesome. I don't understand people who eat it on its own or on pretzels/bread, though.
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@ScholRLEA It may have gone bad, but I don't know. It was a Safeway, the packaging was pristine. It smelled as if it was turning bad perhaps, and that's what I'd say about the flavor... but it wasn't a strong smell or taste of that. The smell was foul, but weak. It didn't seem out of range of good cheese. It was imported and clearly said Emmental on the packaging.
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@Magus How was it packaged? Genuine Emmental is only made, sold and shipped as humongous wheels, and it is never pre-packaged, at least not by the Swiss cheesmakers themselves; it's actually a legal requirement that the wheels made for export be at least a certain size (50Kg or more, IIRC), and be whole when they cross the border. To the best of my knowledge, it is usually packaged at the store, or (for many larger supermarket chains, which I assume would include Safeway) at the warehouse just before being sent to the stores. If the block or wedge you purchased had a section of the rind, it should have had an appellation mark either branded into it or secured on with wax.
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@ScholRLEA It was in very tightly sealed, labeled wax paper. It was rectangular, and about 2cm thick, 3 inches wide, and a handslength tall.
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@Magus said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@ScholRLEA It was in very tightly sealed, labeled wax paper. It was rectangular, and about 2cm thick, 3 inches wide, and a handslength tall.
Unless it was repackaged like that, that wasn't Emmental, not from Switzerland at least (there are two licensed Emmentals in France and another in Germany, and they aren't shipped the same way as Swiss Emmental is, but they shouldn't have been all that different either).
Did it match any of the ones on this page?
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@ScholRLEA Not even slightly.
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@Magus Well, I don't know what you got, then, but it sounds like it was not Emmental. What color was the wax, and what color was the rind (if any, probably not if it was waxed), and what was the texture like?
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@ScholRLEA Looking for it on google:
Might be it?
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@Magus said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@ScholRLEA It was rectangular, and about 2cm thick, 3 inches wide, and a handslength tall.
Nice way to confuse
our American friendseveryone, using cm and inches at the same time ;)
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@TimeBandit I made sure that the third measurement wasn't either of them too :D
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Yeah, no. Even if it is Emmental that they have packaged - and I am highly skeptical of that - the promotional material on their site is sketchy as fuck. This part alone should be enough for them to be in the dock for fraud:
The smooth texture and creamy taste of our Natural American Cheese is great on its own or melted on a burger or in a grilled cheese sandwich. Our rBGH free Natural American Cheese has no artificial ingredients or preservatives. [emphasis added]
? 'American Cheese with no artificial ingredients' is a flat-out contradiction, and while the regulations regarding terms like 'artificial ingredients' and 'all natural' are somewhere between vague and non-existent, 'American Cheese' as a variety of cheese is legally defined as processed cheese. I suppose one could argue that they use emulsifiers that come from a natural ingredient, but that's straining at gnats. This is just outright bullshit and they know it.
As for the 'Emmental', they list 'Pasteurized Cow's Milk' and 'Enzymes (Non-Animal)' in the ingredients, the latter of which I'm not at all convinced is legit; to the best of my knowledge, Swiss law requires Emmental to be prepared using rennet (which is from the stomachs of animals) as the curdling agent. It might be that they allow vegetable enzymes instead now, but last I checked, they didn't. I know that by Swiss law Emmental is never made with pasteurized milk, so again, they are completely full of shit, either lying about the ingredients, or about the source, or more likely, both.
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
While there are block-ripened cheeses that are labeled as 'sharp' or even 'extra sharp', most of those are force-matured in one way or another.
Perhaps, but still better than the blek that is mild "cheddar."
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@ScholRLEA Sorry, lost track of the rest of what I wanted to say, which was: despite all of this, I am surprised it was as bad as you said. Were I to see this in the store, I would expect that this would be, if anything, yet another passable if not very exciting pre-sliced Wisconsin Swiss with an overly enthusiastic marketing scheme. Most of the time, a sliced cheese will have lost most of its character by the time it is sold; the fact that it was strong and unpleasant rather than rubbery and bland tells me that it probably had gone bad, either because it was stored at too high a temperature, or because it was simply past it's time (pre-sliced cheeses also go bad rather quickly, being intended for quick turn-around).
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@HardwareGeek said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
While there are block-ripened cheeses that are labeled as 'sharp' or even 'extra sharp', most of those are force-matured in one way or another.
Perhaps, but still better than the blek that is mild "cheddar."
QFT. Most mild or young cheddars sold in supermarkets taste like a rubber eraser off of a pencil, no matter how they were made. A good young cheddar isn't like that, but you aren't likely to get one except at the creamery itself, and if that's the case, why get the young one when you can get one that's aged?
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@ScholRLEA or it's really imported from Switzerland, but is not "Emmentaler" cheese by any legitimate Swiss legal standard, and only repackaged and labeled as such after it's imported to the US where the law allows it to be called that.
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@anotherusername Hmmn, that's a possibilty, yes, good point.
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
It might be that they allow vegetable enzymes instead now, but last I checked, they didn't.
I don't know about the legal aspect, but microbial rennets are becoming more and more popular in Germany because of the strict vegetarians.
@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I know that by Swiss law Emmental is never made with pasteurized milk, so again, they are completely full of shit, either lying about the ingredients, or about the source, or more likely, both.
Again, I don't know about Swiss law, but I'm pretty sure I've seen Allgäuer Emmentaler (German emmental cheese) made from pasteurized milk before. It's unfortunate, but all the big manufacturers are switching to pasteurized milk for most cheeses.
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
Most of the time, a sliced cheese will have lost most of its character by the time it is sold
QFT.
Especially Emmentaler is something I'd never buy pre-sliced. I'd even be surprised to see it being sold as packaged slices.
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
While there are block-ripened cheeses that are labeled as 'sharp' or even 'extra sharp', most of those are force-matured in one way or another.
Do be aware of the fact that I've had what was described as extra sharp cheddar. It was from a small producer somewhere in upstate NY (don't know exactly where). It was OK, but still far too young. Cheddar is supposed to end up close to parmesan in terms of strength and texture, but it's a slow process to get there. A lot of producers get impatient because of the cost of having that much inventory tied up in maturation…
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I would expect that this would be, if anything, yet another passable if not very exciting pre-sliced Wisconsin Swiss with an overly enthusiastic marketing scheme.
I don't think a cheese with a paper and then thick wax rind (which I now remember) and that says on the package "IMPORTED FROM SWITZERLAND" could be lying too much. It wasn't presliced. It was cut into a large, thick rectangle.
@asdf said in The Official Cheese Topic:
Especially Emmentaler is something I'd never buy pre-sliced. I'd even be surprised to see it being sold as packaged slices.
This certainly wasn't. He made that detail up.
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@Magus said in The Official Cheese Topic:
This certainly wasn't. He made that detail up.
Ah, OK. Good for you, I guess. ;)
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@Magus said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@asdf said in The Official Cheese Topic:Especially Emmentaler is something I'd never buy pre-sliced. I'd even be surprised to see it being sold as packaged slices.
This certainly wasn't. He made that detail up.
Actually, I was going by the link you posted. I forgot that you mentioned that it was a waxed block, and figured that you meant that the image was of the kind of package you bought (I had been a bit confused at first, but discounted the issue later).
I don't think that the packager you mentioned (Applegate) sells blocks, just the pre-sliced cheeses that the web site was showing, in which case it must have been a different brand. I'll go check their website again.
EDIT: They don't show any block cheeses on their website, so either it was a different brand, or the cheese in question was one they only sell directly to the stores or stopped selling altogether.
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@ScholRLEA Yeah, I don't know. It might not have been them, but the packaging was thin white wax paper with a label on it, and that was the only thing that showed up in the search on safeway's site.
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@Khudzlin you don't know what you're talking about. Food of the Gods, man
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I think I tried it once - not surprising, given all the things I've put in my mouth . I got the impression that it was an acquired taste, and I didn't really have the opportunity to acquire it.
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
not surprising, given all the things I've put in my mouth
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@Jaloopa Anyone who likes marmite has a serious taste deficiency problem.
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@asdf Damn, I should have used myself; it's been too long since I got laid.
On the subject of things one puts on one's mouth, I haven't tried either Gjetost (a brown whey cheese from Norway, apparently sickly sweet) or Salmiak candy (a Finnish treat that Alex has mentioned encountering before), and I am torn between curiosity and fear.
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@ScholRLEA Living in NZ for a few years, I had many opportunities to try marmite. Basically, if you spread a thin layer on toast, it's just a slightly bitter salty spread that isn't too bad. Not really a fan. What people often do, not knowing how strong it is, is spread it on like peanut butter, which sounds like the worst thing ever.
They'd sell cheesimite rolls over there, which were in the shape of a cinnamon roll, but with cheese and marmite inside. That was great.
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@Dragoon said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@Jaloopa Anyone who likes marmite has a serious taste deficiency problem.
I eat it on toast with peanut butter
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@Magus said in The Official Cheese Topic:
Living in NZ for a few years, I had many opportunities to try marmite
I thought vegemite was the dominant yeast extract over there?
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@Jaloopa Vegemite is definitely dominant stuff. Put it in any recipe and you'll make it taste like Vegemite.
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@flabdablet whereas marmite in a spaghetti bolognaise just adds a lovely touch of saltiness
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I haven't tried either Gjetost (a brown whey cheese from Norway, apparently sickly sweet)
It's not that bad, but still: Don't. It isn't worth it.
@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
or Salmiak candy
That's something I haven't tried either.
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@Jaloopa said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I thought vegemite was the dominant yeast extract over there?
Not at all. Only in Australia. Though I hear the NZ marmite formula is different from the British one.
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@Jaloopa Marmite is essentially just what happens when you boil down vegetable stock until almost all the water is gone.
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@flabdablet I am suddenly reminded of the Pterry bit about water being so scarce in the XXXX Continent that they had to drink beer instead.
I've had yeast slurry often enough - hard to avoid doing it at least some of the time when you're bottle conditioning - but I have only had the concentrate that one time. You could probably make your own by rendering down the lees from several bottles of homebrew with some salt, I guess, but I never thought to do it until now.
Also, with a bottle conditioned or refermented beer, if you pour the clear beer off of the lees and then drink the slurry, it supposedly helps reduce any hangover you might get. It has a ton of vitamin B12, so I guess that makes some sense.
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@Jaloopa said in The Official Cheese Topic:
marmite in a spaghetti bolognaise
I don't hate Marmite, but why the fuck would you want to ruin bolognese sauce with it? (Unless it's shitty bolognese sauce.)
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@asdf Using marmite instead of salt doesn't ruin anything.
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@asdf my wife adds far too much, along with oxo and actual salt, so you need to drink a lot of water with it to not get dehydrated, but a teaspoon to bring out the flavour is lovely
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@flabdablet You're only saying that because you've never tasted my bolognese sauce.
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
Salmiak candy (a Finnish treat that Alex has mentioned encountering before)
I occasionally wonder how different the Dutch varieties are from the Finnish ones.
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@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I haven't tried either Gjetost (a brown whey cheese from Norway, apparently sickly sweet)
I have relatives who like it. They liken it to condensed milk in flavour, but with the consistency of mild cheddar.
I won't touch it.
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@dkf said in The Official Cheese Topic:
@ScholRLEA said in The Official Cheese Topic:
I haven't tried either Gjetost (a brown whey cheese from Norway, apparently sickly sweet)
I have relatives who like it. They liken it to condensed milk in flavour, but with the consistency of mild cheddar.
I won't touch it.
For a minute I thought I landed on the human breast milk thread by mistake.