US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Meanwhile you said you dislike progressive taxes more, which is the point that @masonwheeler was disproving. Progressive taxes are better. Even capitalists say so.
QED? Hey, wait!…
filed under: meanwhile your assertion was stupid. Even Eleanor Roosevelt said so.
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@masonwheeler said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Why is this important? Because the simplest basically-accurate heuristic to determine the size and health of the economy is money supply * money velocity, where "money supply* is the amount of total money in the system, and money velocity is how quickly it's changing hands.
Why not make it mandatory for everyone to spend all their money every month? That would improve the economy tremendously.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
You said you don't like progressive taxes. You said you're merely uncertain of of regressive ones.
So...I'm going to go with reading comprehension failure with a side of logic failure.
This coffee's too hot.
Ah, so doesn't like hot coffee.@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Meanwhile you said you dislike progressive taxes more, which is the point that @masonwheeler was disproving. Progressive taxes are better. Even capitalists say so.
Wow, you are so fucking retarded. Is there no point you can't twist into a massive categorical strawman?
And this is before we get into just how progressive a property tax on real estate would actually be.
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@kt_ said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Meanwhile you said you dislike progressive taxes more, which is the point that @masonwheeler was disproving. Progressive taxes are better. Even capitalists say so.
QED? Hey, wait!…
filed under: meanwhile your assertion was stupid. Even Eleanor Roosevelt said so.
Thank you for that oh-so-helpful comment which is clearly based on an accurate interpretation of what I said in the context of the full discussion.
**Filed Under:** [Meanwhile you responded at the end of a conversation to which you weren't paying attention.]()
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
I'd prefer colder coffee, but I'm leery of cold coffee.
Ah, so doesn't like hot coffee and is unsure about cold coffee.FTFY
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@kt_ said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Meanwhile you said you dislike progressive taxes more, which is the point that @masonwheeler was disproving. Progressive taxes are better. Even capitalists say so.
QED? Hey, wait!…
filed under: meanwhile your assertion was stupid. Even Eleanor Roosevelt said so.
Thank you for that oh-so-helpful comment which is clearly based on an accurate interpretation of what I said in the context of the full discussion.
**Filed Under:** [Meanwhile you responded at the end of a conversation to which you weren't paying attention.]()I did not respond to the conversation (and I did read it carefully thank you very much). I merely commented upon your stupid assertion. Still, I gotta hand it to you: "Even capitalists say so" was so logical, intelligent and powerful that (it can't be!) you didn't give @boomzilla choice, he never stood a chance, you've convinced him!
Wait a sec…
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
I'd prefer colder coffee, but I'm leery of cold coffee.
Ah, so doesn't like hot coffee and is unsure about cold coffee.FTFY
No, you're just proving how terrible you are at reading. It's like there's a filter between the screen and your eyes or something.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Wow, you are so fucking retarded. Is there no point you can't twist into a massive categorical strawman?
Where the fuck is there even anything in that quote which you could describe as a "massive categorical strawman"?
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@kt_ said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@kt_ said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Meanwhile you said you dislike progressive taxes more, which is the point that @masonwheeler was disproving. Progressive taxes are better. Even capitalists say so.
QED? Hey, wait!…
filed under: meanwhile your assertion was stupid. Even Eleanor Roosevelt said so.
Thank you for that oh-so-helpful comment which is clearly based on an accurate interpretation of what I said in the context of the full discussion.
**Filed Under:** [Meanwhile you responded at the end of a conversation to which you weren't paying attention.]()I did not respond to the conversation (and I did read it carefully thank you very much). I merely commented upon your stupid assertion. Still, I gotta hand it to you: "Even capitalists say so" was so logical, intelligent and powerful that (it can't be!) you didn't give @boomzilla choice, he never stood a chance, you've convinced him!
Wait a sec…
It wasn't my assertion. You'd know that if you read the full conversation. Or even paid attention to what I was saying in my own post.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Where the fuck is there even anything in that quote which you could describe as a "massive categorical strawman"?
This part:
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
OTOH, I can imagine why you'd post a strawman like this.
Good lord, man, go back and read what I said. If you still think your post makes sense in light of it, please quote my post so we can identify your reading comprehension and / or logic failures.@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
I'd prefer a less progressive tax code.
Is a much more negative comment than
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
The regressiveness of consumption tax makes me leery of those
You said you don't like progressive taxes. You said you're merely uncertain of of regressive ones.
Ergo you dislike all progressive taxes, but you think regressive taxes are kind of okay, or possibly okay.
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Yes, exactly. I said that I didn't like consumption taxes due to them being regressive.
Meanwhile you said you dislike progressive taxes more, which is the point that @masonwheeler was disproving. Progressive taxes are better. Even capitalists say so.
You misinterpreted pretty much everything in there.
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
You'd know that if you read the full conversation.
Like...read read or @Fox read?
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@boomzilla How is
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
I'd prefer colder coffee, but I'm leery of cold coffee.
materially different (aside from referring to coffee instead of taxes) than
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
I'd prefer a less progressive tax code. The regressiveness of consumption tax makes me leery of those, however.
It's quite obviously not the same as
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
This coffee's too hot.
so yes, I did fix it. Are you such a shit reader that you can't even properly comprehend what you said?
Here, I'll even do a string replace for you.
I'd prefer a less progressive tax code. The regressiveness of consumption tax makes me leery of those, however.
I'd prefer a less
progressivehottax codecoffee. Theregressivenesscoolness ofconsumptioncoldtaxcoffee makes me leery of those, however.I'd prefer a less hot coffee. The coolness of cold coffee makes me leery of those, however.
[unmentioned contextual reference to some specific tax, I guess? Maybe? Or just your lack of reading comprehension on your own statements inserting additional meaning into statements which completely lacked that meaning]thisI'd prefer a less progressive tax codecoffee's too hot.The regressiveness of consumption tax makes me leery of those, however.[nothing]this coffee's too hot
Yeah, yours is way more accurate.[/sarcasm]
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@masonwheeler said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
There have been several propositions to remedy this particular problem.
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The beast of chaos has returned, and all whose sanity remains must retreat from the insane clanging of its horrifically intangible voice, which rings out like a thousand wails of terror across the dead stars, corrupting all that hear it. And the name of the beast was Fox.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
I'd prefer colder coffee, but I'm leery of cold coffee.
Ah, so doesn't like hot coffee and is unsure about cold coffee.FTFY
No, you're just proving how terrible you are at reading. It's like there's a filter between the screen and your eyes or something.
It doesn't even make sense logically. I can prefer something without disliking the opposite of it.
I can prefer cooler coffee, be leery of cold coffee and be indifferent of hot coffee, especially when the alternitive is no coffee.
I actually don't like coffee though.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
so yes, I did fix it
There was nothing wrong with it to begin with.
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Yeah, yours is way more accurate.
Yes, it was. It was what I said and what I meant. And now you're ignoring that you completely mischaracterized and generalized what I said, perhaps because you know you're wrong? Hah!
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
There was nothing wrong with it to begin with.
There was plenty wrong with it. Your addition of "this" into your statement adds meaning which wasn't present in the original statement, and it has no representation for the comment about regressive taxes.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
It was what I said
No, it wasn't.
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
what I meant.
Maybe, but whose fault is it that what you said and what you meant were two different things?
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
And now you're ignoring that you completely mischaracterized and generalized what I said, perhaps because you know you're wrong? Hah!
No, I'm not ignoring that. I'm saying you're wrong for claiming that is what happened.
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@anonymous234 said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Why not make it mandatory for everyone to spend all their money every month?
That's what hyperinflation (and to a correspondingly lesser extent, ordinary inflation) is for.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Your addition of "this" into your statement adds meaning which wasn't present in the original statement, and it has no representation for the comment about regressive taxes.
Right. Neither did the original statement! Shocking, huh?
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Maybe, but whose fault is it that what you said and what you meant were two different things?
I'm sure I've done that, but not here.
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
No, I'm not ignoring that. I'm saying you're wrong for claiming that is what happened.
Yes, I know. That's why I keep correcting you.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Right. Neither did the original statement! Shocking, huh?
Yes, it did. Right here.
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
The regressiveness of consumption tax makes me leery of those, however.
Dumbass.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
I'm sure I've done that, but not here.
Yeah, you did.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Right. Neither did the original statement! Shocking, huh?
Yes, it did. Right here.
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
The regressiveness of consumption tax makes me leery of those, however.
Dumbass.
And....now you're looking at a statement that doesn't mention progressive taxes. Thanks for disproving your point for me once again.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
And....now you're looking at a statement that doesn't mention progressive taxes. Thanks for disproving your point for me once again.
You fucking moron, it's the sentence right after the one about progressive taxes. In the same post.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
You fucking moron, it's the sentence right after the one about progressive taxes. In the same post.
Yes, exactly. A different sentence.
"I don't like x because it is A. I don't like y because it is too B. (A and B are opposites)"
Oh, so you don't like anything that's B!Two statements and you fail at synthesizing them. Social promotion at work, eh?
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
y
There was no
y
. You just said "I don't likeB
." Quote exactly where you referred to ay
or shut the fuck up and accept that you misspoke.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
y
There was no
y
. You just said "I don't likeB
." Quote exactly where you referred to ay
or shut the fuck up and accept that you misspoke.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
No, you're just proving how terrible you are at reading.
Notwithstanding the fact that@Fox is wrong by definition, perhaps you are not communicating as clearly as you think you are. You have also failed to lead me to an understanding of your dislike of progressive taxes, other than merely that they are progressive.
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@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
You have also failed to lead me to an understanding of your dislike of progressive taxes, other than merely that they are progressive.
It's true, I haven't justified that opinion. I've only stated it. So you haven't actually missed anything. But since you asked:
I believe that progressive taxes distort the economy and are not fair. And for the @fox readers out there: the degrees of distortion and unfairness are correlated with the degree of progressiveness.
Now I look forward to what sort of wild extrapolations @Fox can come up with from that.
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@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Notwithstanding the fact that@Fox is wrong by definition
Fuck you.
@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
perhaps you are not communicating as clearly as you think you are.
He definitely is not.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
I believe that progressive taxes distort the economy and are not fair.
But as @masonwheeler said earlier (was that the right person? I forget and I'm not
disconodescrolling myself up far enough to confirm), even a champion of capitalism says that progressive taxes are fair because rich people can spare more than poor people.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
even a champion of capitalism says that progressive taxes are fair because rich people can spare more than poor people
And somehow you think that contradicts anything I said?
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
And somehow you think that contradicts anything I said?
Yes, it does.
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
a champion of capitalism says that progressive taxes are fair
contradicts your belief that
@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
progressive taxes ... are not fair.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Yes, it does.
Goddamned you are stupid. He said it was more fair than a regressive tax. HOW HAVE YOU NOT FAILED OUT OF SCHOOL?
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Bored. You're boring. Stop being boring.
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@boomzilla Yeah, but you said you'd prefer a less progressive tax. You said you think progressive taxes aren't fair. So I guess now we're back to you disliking taxes entirely.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Fuck you.
No thank you. You are VERY not my type, for a multitude of reasons.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
you disliking taxes entirely.
He's far from unique in that. However, it seems pretty obvious that he prefers taxes that are neither progressive nor regressive. Whether such taxes are, in fact, actually fair, or even achievable, is another question, but it doesn't take a genius to realize that's what he seems to be arguing in favor of.
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@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Whether such taxes are, in fact, actually fair, or even achievable, is another question
Two questions, technically, the answers to which are both, conveniently, the same: "No."
@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
it doesn't take a genius to realize that's what he seems to be arguing in favor of.
Yes, now it is clear that's what he was arguing in favor of.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Two questions, technically, the answers to which are both, conveniently, the same: "No."
That is highly debatable. However, I will leave the debate to someone more knowledgeable on the topic than I am.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
So I guess now we're back to you disliking taxes entirely.
Yes, you would guess that.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Yes, now it is clear that's what he was arguing in favor of.
Didn't you read what @Captain said? Stop being boring! You're just embarrassing yourself and boring everyone else.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
But as @masonwheeler said earlier (was that the right person? I forget and I'm not
disconodescrolling myself up far enough to confirm), even a champion of capitalism says that progressive taxes are fair because rich people can spare more than poor people.Actually I believe the rationale that he used is that rich people benefit more from the fruits of civilization than poor people do, and so it's reasonable to ask them to contribute more into it.
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@boomzilla said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Is there no point you can't twist into a massive categorical strawman?
Filed under: who says there no stupid questions?
@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Notwithstanding the fact that@Fox is wrong by definition
Actually, I think he puts some effort into being consistently wrong. For example, as many links as he posts seemingly without reading, he must be doing something to avoid accidentally posting one that actually proves his point.
@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
However, I will leave the debate to someone more knowledgeable on the topic than I am.
No knowledge required. Any tax that isn't progressive isn't fair according to him. Also, any tax that isn't progressive is regressive by definition, so not achievable either.
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@masonwheeler They're roughly the same thing, I guess, but that is more accurate.
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@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@kt_ said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@kt_ said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
@Fox said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
Meanwhile you said you dislike progressive taxes more, which is the point that @masonwheeler was disproving. Progressive taxes are better. Even capitalists say so.
QED? Hey, wait!…
filed under: meanwhile your assertion was stupid. Even Eleanor Roosevelt said so.
Thank you for that oh-so-helpful comment which is clearly based on an accurate interpretation of what I said in the context of the full discussion.
**Filed Under:** [Meanwhile you responded at the end of a conversation to which you weren't paying attention.]()I did not respond to the conversation (and I did read it carefully thank you very much). I merely commented upon your stupid assertion. Still, I gotta hand it to you: "Even capitalists say so" was so logical, intelligent and powerful that (it can't be!) you didn't give @boomzilla choice, he never stood a chance, you've convinced him!
Wait a sec…
It wasn't my assertion. You'd know that if you read the full conversation. Or even paid attention to what I was saying in my own post.
Wasn't it? Did you want to explain what @masonwheeler meant? If so, my bad, but you should REALLY work on your communication skills, cause you're SEVERELY lacking them.
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@boomzilla @Fox I summed up your conversation in this little infographic.
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@antiquarian said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
any tax that isn't progressive is regressive by definition, so not achievable either.
While it may not be achievable, there is, at least conceptually, a spot in the middle that is neither progressive nor regressive. (Edit: See @Gąska's diagram just above.) There was a lot of public debate a few years ago about whether and how it could be achieved, so I am not simply going to take your assertion that it is unachievable as fact, at least not without some very strong supporting evidence (which you have never yet been able to provide for any of your arguments here, so I'm not holding my breath on this one, either).
@antiquarian said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
No knowledge required.
So perfect job for you, then.
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@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
there is, at least conceptually, a spot in the middle that is neither progressive nor regressive.
While you're not wrong, people do disagree quite a bit over where that point is. As such, you can easily get big arguments over really quite moderate measures…
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@HardwareGeek said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
While it may not be achievable, there is, at least conceptually, a spot in the middle that is neither progressive nor regressive.
What part of "by definition" isn't clear to you?
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@antiquarian said in US economy doing great, on account of everybody else being kind of fucked:
What part of "by definition" isn't clear to you?
Most anything that @Fox defines to suit his own purposes, where the definition does not correspond with the general usage of the term. (This is not limited to @Fox, but includes people of all political persuasions who redefine words to suit their own agenda, although ISTM this is more common from the Left than the Right.)