Synchronizing tax return columns
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Forked from a genuine help topic - bz
@RaceProUK said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
TIL $20 is a lot of money
To be fair, my father was royally pissed that I paid about $110 to have my taxes filed instantly. Apparently getting a refund of about $3.8k wasn't sufficient justification, despite all the spam emails claiming I should splurge when I get a refund or something...
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
getting a refund of about $3.8k
The real WTF.
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@RaceProUK said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
TIL $20 is a lot of money
But sometimes even after being proved wrong, you keep spouting out the wrong shit because your brain is incapable of absorbing new information, so you can multiply that a few times.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
The real WTF.
What can I say? I'm a pretty good sheep.
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@Tsaukpaetra Give me a free $3000 loan please.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Give me a free $3000 loan please.
Sorry, still waiting for payment from the last guy I "loaned" $2500 to. But I'll let you have $500.
Wait a minute, weren't you asking for money earlier?
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@Tsaukpaetra Always give me money.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Always give me money.
I doubt your bank or other financial institution would accept any currency I could give you.
How about a barter instead? We could trade words!
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
getting a refund of about $3.8k
Welcome to the club.
@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Give me a free $3000 loan please.
I didn't give that loan by choice, and I suspect that @Tsaukpaetra didn't, either.
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@mods, since this is now about tax refunds might want to move/rename?
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
I didn't give that loan by choice, and I suspect that @Tsaukpaetra didn't, either.
You guys signed your W-4 forms under duress?
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
You guys signed your W-4 forms under duress?
I was told by payroll to put my yearly salary on the W-4 even though I only worked in the US for half a year. Since I have no fucking clue about the US tax laws, especially for non-residents, that's what I (and all other non-residents) did.
Maybe our payroll department is TRWTF here, or maybe it's the law, but you cannot blame me for following the advice of people who should know way better than me.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
under duress?
Define "duress" in the context you used it, I'm fairly sure the answer was "yes".
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Define "duress" in the context you used it, I'm fairly sure the answer was "yes".
"Hey, it's your first day, and you have to fill out that shit right now even if you have no idea what you're doing."
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@asdf You don't have to hand-in your W-4 right away, and in any case you can change it at any time, just ask.
The automatic withholding is a convenience to you (to save you from making quarterly payments), not some kind of prison sentence.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
You don't have to hand-in your W-4 right away
I was told that I had to do that on my first day, probably because of the visa.
The automatic withholding is a convenience to you (to save you from making quarterly payments)
So… It's not mandatory? Because I was told it was.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
So… It's not mandatory?
Filling out the form is mandatory, I believe, but you can just put in $0.00 as your withholding.
I did that for years when I knew it was unlikely my tax burden would be more than the minimum amount requiring quarterly payments. I stopped doing it when I started earning more money and became virtually guaranteed to hit the limit.
EDIT: BTW the only reason the W-4 form is mandatory is if, in the rare instance an employer is actually audited, the employer can prove that the amount they withheld was specified by the employee. From what I understand, 99% of the time, the IRS will never request a W-4 in practice.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
you can just put in $0.00 as your witholding.
... and there's a penalty if you don't withhold enough.
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@Jaime said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
... and there's a penalty if you don't withhold enough.
You're phrasing it wrong. There's a penalty if you owe the IRS more than $X during any given quarter. (X used to be an even $1000, I'm not sure if it still is.)
If you know you're going to owe more than $1000 at the end of the year, you have to do something to ensure you don't owe more than $1000 at any given time. If you're sure you'd end up owing, say, $1500, you can just do a half-yearly payment to them of $700 and come in fine at the end of the year (when you'd owe another $800, less than the limit), for example.
The point of automatic withholding is to have your employer do this on your behalf. It's not required. You can simply put $0 on the W-4 and do your own IRS payments whenever.
From what I understand, if you're "small beans" (which to the IRS means you're paying in less than $10,000 or so), the penalty for not making quarterly payments is waived in virtually 100% of cases. Since estimating your tax for the next year is almost impossible, considering Congress makes new tax rules up until the damned wire.
EDIT: I looked it up, it's still an even $1000: https://www.irs.gov/Help-&-Resources/Tools-&-FAQs/FAQs-for-Individuals/Frequently-Asked-Tax-Questions-&-Answers/Estimated-Tax/Individuals/Individuals
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
There's a penalty if you owe the IRS more than $X during any given quarter.
Sounds familiar. They owe you money? Thanks for the interest-free loan. You owe them money? That's 7% interest please.
And over here you can't specify the withholding - you can only estimate your expected earnings, and if you intentionally mis-estimate those that's fraud and you'll get fined. And have to pay 7% interest.
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@PleegWat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
There's a penalty if you owe the IRS more than $X during any given quarter.
Sounds familiar. They owe you money? Thanks for the interest-free loan. You owe them money? That's 7% interest please.
And over here you can't specify the withholding - you can only estimate your expected earnings, and if you intentionally mis-estimate those that's fraud and you'll get fined. And have to pay 7% interest.
It's not fraud here. I used to do a lot of 1099 work and got hit with it every once in a while. They don't hold it against you, they just want their interest, which is lower than pretty much anywhere else you can get a loan. If you had extra money, it would actually be more financially sound to use the money to pay off almost any other debt and accept the IRS penalty. Also, as @blakeyrat said, the first $1000 is free. Also, as long as you withheld more than your total tax bill was last year, they don't assess any penalty at all.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
You guys signed your W-4 forms under duress?
Considering you can't work without signing one[1], it's not exactly something you have a choice about. Also, even if you adjust your withholding, you can't refuse to pay it. Well, you can, but you'll pay a fine later.
[1] spare me the ry around where that's not true.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
I was told by payroll to put my yearly salary
*blink* You don't put your salary on the W-4. You put how many exemptions you're claiming. Maybe you're thinking of a different form. Here's the whole form. Well, the whole piece you give your employer.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
You don't have to hand-in your W-4 right away
No, but "newly hired employees must complete and sign Section 1 of Form I-9 no later than the first day of employment" (emphasis in original) and as a new employee, you'll be given them both at the same time, and they won't tell you you don't have to fill out the W-4 right there.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
The automatic withholding is a convenience to you
If you think that's true, I suggest you look at what happens if you don't withhold.
"Employers are generally required to withhold money from an employee's pay for income tax purposes, whether the employee is paid hourly or on a salary basis. The exception to this rule arises if an employee had no tax liability last year and expects to have no tax liability at the end of the current year. The IRS states that in this case, the employee can use Form W-4 to tell an employer not to deduct federal income tax. " http://smallbusiness.chron.com/must-employer-withhold-federal-taxes-hourly-employee-36067.html
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Filling out the form is mandatory, I believe, but you can just put in $0.00 as your withholding.
Pfft. It's like you don't even know what the form looks like. You write down how many exemptions you want, and whether you want to have additional withholding, if, for example, you may have other reportable income not from this employer, and you want to make sure you don't have to pay all the extra tax at the end of the year.
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@FrostCat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Here's the whole form.
Not only this, but the IRS actually gives you instructions on what numbers to put on the form if you have extra-normal circumstances.
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Generally, employers are required to withhold. Making your own quarterly payment is something that's usually done by the self-employed.
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@FrostCat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Sure, but you can put 35 in the deductions box and they won't actually withhold anything. It's sometimes appropriate, for example, if you are unemployed for the first ten months of the year.
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@FrostCat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
You put how many exemptions you're claiming.
Yeah, sorry, I was thinking of a different form. Anyway, my point was: The deduction was calculated based on my annual salary despite the fact that I only worked in the US for half a year and I have no idea how I could have possibly prevented that from happening.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
@FrostCat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
You put how many exemptions you're claiming.
Yeah, sorry, I was thinking of a different form. Anyway, my point was: The deduction was calculated based on my annual salary despite the fact that I only worked in the US for half a year and I have no idea how I could have possibly prevented that from happening.
If only there were an online IRS tool that specifically asked for your dates of employment, other jobs, dependents, and other deductions and spit out exactly what to put on the form. Oh wait, there is.
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@Jaime said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
If only there were an online IRS tool that specifically asked for your dates of employment, other jobs, dependents, and other deductions and spit out exactly what to put on the form. Oh wait, there is.
And how the fuck am I supposed to know that if my employer's payroll department tells me to use another tool that doesn't give me that option? I don't know shit about US tax law, since I'm not a US citizen.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
I can't believe you are actually making me do this.
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@Jaime said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
I can't believe you are actually making me do this.
And why would I have googled that after my employer's payroll department, who handle a lot of non-residents, already told me how to fill out the form? I know that they don't have a clue now, but put yourself in my position: You arrive in a foreign country, your employer has prepared the tax paperwork for you, tells you to fill it out immediately and gives you clear instructions. Would you seriously google that shit all by yourself instead of trusting the large company you're working for, which supposedly deals with that kind of shit all the time, and following the instructions?
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@asdf BTW: I just checked: We have an in-house app that does the same as the IRS app you linked. I was told to put the yearly salary stated on my contract, not the calculated actual salary, in the "salary" form field. That's why I remember specifying my income.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Would you seriously google that shit all by yourself instead of trusting the large company you're working for
Yes. The form is really small, and taxes are a big deal. I would look into the tax implications of earning money in a foreign country before even considering working there. You might find all kinds of other useful information, like whether it is in your best interest to open a bank account in that country and have the paycheck deposited there. Sometimes that can save you being double-taxed on the income.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
@asdf BTW: I just checked: We have an in-house app that does the same as the IRS app you linked. I was told to put the yearly salary stated on my contract, not the calculated actual salary, in the "salary" form field. That's why I remember specifying my income.
So they built an app that duplicates already existing functionality, but poorly. Great.
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@Jaime Of course I googled half of that shit: How I have to file my taxes to avoid double taxation, which taxes I actually have to pay and which ones I'm exempt from, etc. But if my employer gives me clear instructions on how to fill out a simple form, tells me that they will have to deduct taxes, but that I'll get half of those back with my tax return, I don't question that.
Also, keep in mind that I'm a non-resident, so other rules may apply to me than to you. I'm still not entirely convinced that my employer's advice was wrong, they (and all my non-resident coworkers) specifically told me to do it that way.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
The deduction was calculated based on my annual salary despite the fact that I only worked in the US for half a year and I have no idea how I could have possibly prevented that from happening.
Educating yourself, I suppose, is the only answer.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Educating yourself, I suppose, is the only answer.
Well, I did some research before, and now I definitely know. I'm just a bit annoyed by the "you're stupid because you didn't know/google that" attitude. I had no reason to question what I was told to do, it seemed reasonable.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
I had no reason to question what I was told to do, it seemed reasonable.
Question everything.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Question everything.
I usually don't question people who know more than me in a specific area unless I have a good reason to do so. The reason specialized professions exists is that I don't have to know everything myself. Take a doctor or a lawyer: As long as I have a vague idea what's going on and as long as their advice/diagnosis seems reasonable, you don't go to the nearest university library to do your own research, because you (have to) trust them and their experience and knowledge. If you think you know better than their lawyer or doctor, it's probably the Dunning-Krueger effect.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
I usually don't question people who know more than me in a specific area unless I have a good reason to do so.
Wake up sheeple.
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@blakeyrat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Wake up sheeple.
No idea whether you're trolling or serious, probably a bit of both. Anyway, ain't nobody got time to learn all the shit other people are being paid to do for you. At some point, you'll have to trust someone with something.
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
No idea whether you're trolling or serious, probably a bit of both.
You'd know if you weren't sheeple. SLEEPING sheeple.
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@blakeyrat I'd rather accidentally sign a document allowing the government to test chemtrails over my back yard than learn more about US tax law than absolutely necessary.
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@mods can we have the topic drift in this coding help topic moderated?
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@PleegWat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
can we have the topic drift in this coding help topic moderated?
INB4 "that sounds like work"
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@Jaime said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
@FrostCat said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
Sure, but you can put 35 in the deductions box and they won't actually withhold anything. It's sometimes appropriate, for example, if you are unemployed for the first ten months of the year.
While that's true, it's not quite the same thing.
It's important to know the process, given the penalties for getting it wrong. For one thing, if you abuse that box, the IRS can--and will--send your employer a letter saying "you must alter Jaime's withholding to be 'Single, 0 allowances'. He may not alter it until you get written confirmation from us.'"
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@asdf said in Synchronize column widths between HTML tables:
The deduction was calculated based on my annual salary despite the fact that I only worked in the US for half a year and I have no idea how I could have possibly prevented that from happening.
You probably couldn't. The IRS has rigged the system to give the Federal government as large interest-free loans as possible from as many people as possible.
At least you'll most likely get the money back eventually. Some more corrupt locales would just keep it.