Steam based their OS on Linux, so of course it's broken shit
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That's because when people get something to work on Linux, they go play instead of bitching about it at internet forums.
I wholly disagree.
When you find someone who had no problems, they fucking let you know. Either they are the self-acclaimed god of Linux, or they are Linux's most devout worshiper.
Meanwhile it's the Apple/Microsoft PC guy that's silent, because he turned on his PC and it installed the right driver for him. He never even knew he had a problem.
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Usually this is where someone says, "You just need to use a branded linux like Red Hat. It's prepackaged. See, Linux can be awesome too"
Well...
Installing driver in linux redhat... what am I doing wrong?
I am trying to install this driver: http://www.asus.com/support/download...58.zip~zaqwedc hoping it will correct my problem with my ethernet card. I am following the instructions in the text file that | The UNIX and Linux Forums
I think your problem was that when you became root you used 'su' rather than 'su -' the hyphen is important as it puts you in root's PATH.
mhmm.... works wonderfully.
Can't wait to make that SteamOS work with whatever setup I have at my house...
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You did notice that the thread is from June 2003, right?
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Yeah, and the most complicated part of putting my PS2 (released in 2000) online was plugging the wireless bridge into it with an ethernet cable.
I tried again, this time trying to force a 720p resolution. That didn't work either.
You know what happened when I plugged my PS2 into my TV....
Magic.
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And now you're comparing a general purpose operating system with a gaming console.
In the year 2000, Windows ME was the newest Microsoft consumer OS. I think we all remember what pile of shit it was. There was also Windows 2000, which people tell me was actually good (never used it myself), but it definitely had massive problems with game compatibility. In the year 2003, which is when that thread was made, we had Windows XP, which was admittedly good, but by no means problem-free. (And also had some compatibility issues with older games, of course.)
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And now you're comparing a general purpose operating system with a gaming console.
In the year 2000, Windows ME was the newest Microsoft consumer OS. I think we all remember what pile of shit it was. There was also Windows 2000, which people tell me was actually good (never used it myself), but it definitely had massive problems with game compatibility. In the year 2003, which is when that thread was made, we had Windows XP, which was admittedly good, but by no means problem-free. (And also had some compatibility issues with older games, of course.)
And you're just making my point stronger.
My point.
- Console gaming built on a general purpose OS is stupid.
- Console gaming built on Linux is even worse.
No one wants to buy a console and have to make it work.
I never said a console based on Windows would be flawless.
Windows ME was bad because it was a general purpose OS with restricted access to the area of settings needed to FIX problems.
Take that idea and port it forward into a console?
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And you're just making my point stronger.
I don't really care, since I agree that the entire idea of Steam OS is ridiculous and the hardware is even more so. I was just pointing out that if you're going to complain about driver install problems on Linux, you might want to dig up something more recent than over 12 years old. That thread is old enough to be in sixth grade.
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complain about driver install problems on Linux
Windows ME was superior to Linux at the time....
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Android is also based on Linux and works fine. So the problem isn't Linux and the problem isn't that a component is open-source.
However, on such a special-purpose device, the OS should just not want to offer any general purpose abilities. To use the example of Android again: it comprehensively offers its own way of doing things. Even though it is based upon Linux, no normal person would ever want to open a command-line terminal on their smartphone.
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Android is also based on Linux and works fine. So the problem isn't Linux and the problem isn't that a component is open-source.
Android didn't come out of the open source community. I wish people would stop pretending that.
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I didn't know that Steam is an open-source community project?
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I suppose that's possible. How is that relevant to today's Steam OS and Steam Machines?
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So, what you're saying is that Valve should be able to compete with Google for turning Linux into something that works out of the box for end-users that have no tech experience?
You're talking about a platform that's weak for video games, and you're not willing to fault that for Steam's failure?
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No, I am not saying that game consoles and smartphones are competing against each other.
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no normal person would ever want to open a command-line terminal on their smartphone.
/me raises a paw.
i do.
- because it's cool
- because i can
- because why not
- because that's where the best utilities are
- because E_OVERFLOW
- lists are fun!
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No, I am not saying that game consoles and smartphones are competing against each other.
What does that have.....
God
Look.
Linux has traditionally been an OS designed for users with tech experience.
Android is a restricted OS based off Linux designed to be plug and play for non-tech users.
SteamOS is a restricted OS based off Linux designed to be plug and play for non-tech users.
The difference between what it's eventually used for is tangential.
The difference is that Google has the resources to take Linux and fix all of its problems when attempting to make it packagable for non-tech users.
So there are two problems here. Linux is not inherently user-friendly, AND Valve is not equipped to undertake this type of task.
You can't tell me that an OS that doesn't support games is not a contributor to the failure of SteamOS
I booted up Bioshock Infinite—one of the few Linux-compatible games available
You can't bring up Google and say, "It's not Linux's fault!"
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Linux has traditionally been an OS designed for users with tech experience.
Sort of; really it started as a free clone of MINIX, kinda grew into being a techie OS because no-one stopped it, found a home on webservers, then got wrapped with things that tried to make it more usable in the mainstream.
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@Grunnen said:
no normal person would ever want to open a command-line terminal on their smartphone.
/me raises a paw.
Ummm …
no normal person
Are you claiming to be normal?
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Are you claiming to be normal?
There's no such thing as normal.
If you take someone who's considered normal in their hometown and pluck them into a culturally distant town, they won't be normal. That breaks the concept of normal.
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I don't think @Grunnen was limiting his sample pool to people who frequent this forum.
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I play video games on Linux for like 48 hours a day. On Windows, I barely even get near playing for 12 hours.
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Sure, Google has a lot of resources (money). As have Microsoft and Apple, the other main vendors of consumer computers with wide-spread usage.
So, then, I conclude that it just costs a lot of money to make an operating system which is suitable for wide-spread consumer usage.
And it's not Linux' fault if Steam doesn't have that amount of money.
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And it's not Linux' fault if Steam doesn't have that amount of money.
if they just hurried up and released Half Life 3 already they'd have approximately ALL THE MONIES
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Given the number of Steam users, and the number of games on Steam, I think Valve already has a lot of monies ;)
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Given the number of Steam users, and the number of games on Steam, I think Valve already has a lot of monies ;)
alot <> all
[spoiler]
[/spoiler]
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And it's not Linux' fault if Steam doesn't have that amount of money.
Depends on how you look at it.
Games don't run on Linux.
They are fighting an uphill battle.
And your argument is basically, with enough money you can make a OS not meant to be a console, not meant to play games, not meant for end-user-friendliness, work as a console.
Yeah, I suppose you can.
But a cell phone with apps that are specifically designed to the platform... is a little more within the realm of reason.
And besides, we need to drop the word "fault", partially my fault... that we are using this word.
Software can't be at fault.
What I should say, is that Linux is part of the problem.
They selected an OS that is working against them.
They want pre-existing games to work for an OS the games weren't designed against, as opposed to Android which usually has apps and hardware built specifically for Android.
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Please, show me your list....
And don't count anything that emulates Windows to do it.
We're talking about a console developed on Linux.
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I had to zoom way out because otherwise I'd have to post like 50 screenshots.
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First, this whole story of "Linux cannot run games, it's not built for it" is just the same as what was being said about the Windows NT in the era of Windows 2000 and earlier.
Second, yes, smartphones are usually designed to work well with Android. But would it unreasonable to expect that a Steam console is designed to work well with Steam OS? If Valve cannot make their own hardware work well with their own software, I'd say they're doing it wrong.
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So, Valve games (no vested interest there)
And indie games...Witcher 2, XCOM and Borderlands, is about all I really see there that counters my point.
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In this case, the hardware that was sold was working perfectly and the monitor was horribly broken and from another vendor.
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Usually this is where someone says, "You just need to use a branded linux like Red Hat. It's prepackaged. See, Linux can be awesome too"
No, I think we're ignoring your random nonsense. It's like reading a less angry blakey. Not nearly as fun to troll.
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First, this whole story of "Linux cannot run games, it's not built for it" is just the same as what was being said about the Windows NT in the era of Windows 2000 and earlier.
I'm not saying you'll never be able to make a console based on Linux that is user-friendly and will sell.
I'm saying now is not the time.
But would it unreasonable to expect that a Steam console is designed to work well with Steam OS?
Yes.
Valve does not have the capacity to develop something like that.
They aren't Apple, Microsoft, Nintendo, Sony, or Google.
They aren't developing a platform where they expect people will program against.
They are developing a platform to play existing games.And they're developing based on an OS that doesn't have a great repertoire or even competes in the videogames market.
There are multiple very big problems with this before you even get into it, and Linux is definitely ONE of those problems.
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No, I think we're ignoring your random nonsense. It's like reading a less angry blakey. Not nearly as fun to troll.
So, you're on the side of thinking that a company of Valve's size is capable of making a console that runs on Linux?
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First, this whole story of "Linux cannot run games, it's not built for it" is just the same as what was being said about the Windows NT in the era of Windows 2000 and earlier.
And yet, not one successful console based on Windows 2000 exists.
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I hereby proudly present a list of all Linux-compatible games I own on Steam:
Yes, I took those screenshots in Big Picture Mode just to annoy you.
And yes, apart from Valve games, Civ V and XCOM it's mostly indie games. So what, I actually liked some of them.
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a company of Valve's size is capable of making a console that runs on Linux?
capable, absolutely!
should they? that's an entirely different question!
can they make it as successfull as the Wii? or those pretenders the xbone and the PonySimulation4?
AH HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! FUNNY MAN!
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@boomzilla said:
No, I think we're ignoring your random nonsense. It's like reading a less angry blakey. Not nearly as fun to troll.
So, you're on the side of thinking that a company of Valve's size is capable of making a console that runs on Linux?
I'll be honest, when I see the word "Valve," software is waaaay down on the list of things I'd think about. I have no idea what size that company is. Hang on, is that the company that does this Steam gaming thing?
However, I'm pretty sure you skipped the posts that pointed out that the reviewer linked in the OP was using some kind of retarded monitor and instead of recognizing that he blamed other stuff.
I was mostly commenting on your "comparisons" of Windows vs Linux.
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And yes, apart from Valve games, Civ V and XCOM it's mostly indie games. So what, I actually liked some of them.
That's the point.
This project is not something you would be able to pitch to a company.
I don't know what was wrong with Valve when they thought it would work.
Oh yeah, I know what they thought. "We ported our games, surely we can convince other AAA titles"
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"We ported our games, surely we can convince other AAA titles"
They managed to get some AAA titles ported to Linux, which is already more than I expected.
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I was mostly commenting on your "comparisons" of Windows vs Linux.
Show me market penetration of Linux into home use, or videogaming that doesn't involve Google, and I'll change my mind.
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@boomzilla said:
I was mostly commenting on your "comparisons" of Windows vs Linux.
Show me market penetration of Linux into home use, or videogaming that doesn't involve Google, and I'll change my mind.
TDEMSYR
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@Grunnen said:
First, this whole story of "Linux cannot run games, it's not built for it" is just the same as what was being said about the Windows NT in the era of Windows 2000 and earlier.
And yet, not one successful console based on Windows 2000 exists.
The XBox One runs on the Windows NT kernel.
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Ok, then what's your point.
That's I'm absurd for saying that Linux barely makes it into the home market, and even its branded versions like Red Hat still have problems in compatibility and user-friendly departments?
