TIL, about economics (Beware of the whale boats)
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There comes a point where one tires of arguing with intransigent nuff-nuffs and needs to head off to bed. So I'll TDWTF-Godwin this thread and take my leave of you. Well played, for what it's worth.
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@Fox said:
banning people from hunting whalesstigmatiting boat ownership
I never stigmatized boat ownership. I said boat ownership was one of the powers that has a tendency to be abused to squeeze every last cent out of the oceans.
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"What kind of corruption happens?"
"Boat ownership!"
"How is that a corruption?"
"Whale hunting!"
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has a tendency
Has a tendency?
Let me know when you understand the definition of stigmatize.
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"What kind of corruption happens?"
"Squeezing every last cent out of ... the oceans"
"What power is being abused there?"
"Boat ownership!""How is that a corruption?"
"Whale hunting!"
FTFY
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That's fine, if you had presented it that way.
We're criticizing how you presented it.
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What kind of corruption happens on the road?
"Tire ownership"
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That's fine, if you had presented it that way.
We're criticizing how you presented it.
No, you're criticizing me for your incomplete reading of how the conversation occurred.
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I'm tired of googling things for people when they refuse to educate themselves.
Ah, yes, you want them to make your points for you? And now you feel put out by having to substantiate your argument, so not only do you use a snarky insult site, but you shorten the links? Yes, you're a master of rhetoric.
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@Fox said:
I'm tired of googling things for people when they refuse to educate themselves.
Ah, yes, you want them to make your points for you? And now you feel put out by having to substantiate your argument, so not only do you use a snarky insult site, but you shorten the links? Yes, you're a master of rhetoric.
No, in this case, I'm actually put out by having to explain the current state of free market capitalism to you after decades of evidence as to why it's fucking retarded.
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The poor thing has been in a helluva echo chamber, you can expect some unrealistic assumptions...
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When someone asks me a question as simple as "What sort of corruption happens when corporations aren't regulated by government", I'm not inclined to bother with any lengthy explanation when the answer is abundantly obvious,
Apparently you have to subscribe to the parallel universe version of definitions. And be the sort of asshat who would include "sustainable" in a definition of corruption.
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http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/corrupt?s=t Here's a list of synonymous (and similar) words to "corrupt" since you can't seem to be able to read a full definition.
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When the fuck did I say that all people who own boats abuse their boat ownership for personal gain?
Jesus fuck, you fucking moron, I am not going back and finding it but you said it.
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@Gribnit said:
@Fox said:
What sort of corruption happens when corporations aren't regulated by government
Bad things happen. None of them are corruption. It may have been a trick question.ABUse of a boat for personal gain is supposed to be corruption?In philosophical, theological, or moral discussions, corruption is the abuse of bestowed power or position to acquire a personal benefit.
What's the abuse? OK, I'll admit I finally followed a link, because I was curious why everyone was talking about boats. Whaling, huh? What's corrupt about whaling?
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You're right....
It was
Corruption!
What power is abused?
Boat-ownership.
It only took you several posts later to even show how boat ownership was being abused.
I don't think of whaling ships as boat ownership, as a topic for us.
So it was somewhat disingenuous, as I'm willing to bet, people were trying to understand why a guy going for a joyride in a boat down a river, possibly taking the opportunity to fish with a license, was abusing his power over people and the environment.
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Fine, ship ownership, excuse me.
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The fact that many species of whales are endangered, including several that are endangered specifically because of whaling.
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No, you're criticizing me for your incomplete reading of how the conversation occurred.
We read it. It made no sense. Much the same as the rest of your posts.
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No, in this case, I'm actually put out by having to explain the current state of free market capitalism to you after decades of evidence as to why it's fucking retarded.
Yes, it's susceptible to humans fucking things up.
But so is everything else.
And as far as I'm concerned, I haven't found a replacement for it that accomplishes anything better.
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No, in this case, I'm actually put out by having to explain the current state of free market capitalism to you after decades of evidence as to why it's fucking retarded.
Ah, yes, grad school wisdom.
http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/corrupt?s=t Here's a list of synonymous (and similar) words to "corrupt" since you can't seem to be able to read a full definition.
Yeah. Now...how does that apply to whaling? And how is whaling a "conservative economic policy?"
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No, you read two in a series of three of my posts in a conversation with @boomzilla , and when you couldn't figure out where the connection between the first and third posts was, you criticized me for "presenting it wrong"
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You're volunteering to solve something called the Socialist Planning Problem?
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@Fox said:
No, in this case, I'm actually put out by having to explain the current state of free market capitalism to you after decades of evidence as to why it's fucking retarded.
Yes, it's susceptible to humans fucking things up.
But so is everything else.
And as far as I'm concerned, I haven't found a replacement for it that accomplishes anything better.
So far, the most likely solution seems to be "let the people who aren't fucking things up keep doing what they're doing, and reprimand the people who are fucking things up", or, in short, regulating the economy.
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The fact that many species of whales are endangered, including several that are endangered specifically because of whaling.
Indeed. Tragedy of the commons. You're reaaaaallllyy stretching the definition of corruption here. This is almost as ridiculous as the term "gender confirmation surgery," which phrasing even disagrees with your previous definitions of the words.
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No, I didn't, thanks for playing, though.
You are a miserable human being. Fuck you. I am going back to find it.
What's that power that's being abused, now?
Employment, land ownership, owning a boat, etc.
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Yeah. Now...how does that apply to whaling? And how is whaling a "conservative economic policy?"
Conservative economic policy is, at its core, allowing businesses to do whatever the fuck they want and, at least according to the politicians, "trusting" them to "do the right thing"
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So far, the most likely solution seems to be "let the people who aren't fucking things up keep doing what they're doing, and reprimand the people who are fucking things up", or, in short, regulating the economy.
But only do things that you agree with. Hell, we should just make you dictator then, so you can decide what is best for us.
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Nah, I'd feel better off with @flabdablet in charge, honestly. Not good, but, better, off.
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Conservative economic policy is, at its core, allowing businesses to do whatever the fuck they want and, at least according to the politicians, "trusting" them to "do the right thing"
But how does that apply to fucking whale hunting?
I think you are @flabdablet have had enough brandy for all of us.
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@boomzilla said:
Yeah. Now...how does that apply to whaling? And how is whaling a "conservative economic policy?"
Conservative economic policy is, at its core, allowing businesses to do whatever the fuck they want and, at least according to the politicians, "trusting" them to "do the right thing"
Sweet, at least now we have that definition. It's wrong, of course, but I'll stop arguing economics with you now.
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"all people who own boats abuse their boat ownership for personal gain" != "boat ownership is a power that's being abused to squeeze every last cent out of the oceans"
Or, more simply,
"Everyone's doing " != " happens"
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@Fox said:
@boomzilla said:
Yeah. Now...how does that apply to whaling? And how is whaling a "conservative economic policy?"
Conservative economic policy is, at its core, allowing businesses to do whatever the fuck they want and, at least according to the politicians, "trusting" them to "do the right thing"
Sweet, at least now we have that definition. It's wrong, of course, but I'll stop arguing economics with you now.
Please, then, explain to me what the actual definition of conservative economic policy is. Be sure to not include anything that amounts to "trusting businesses to do the right thing"
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Okay, good, something is still working in there.
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Please, then, explain to me what the actual definition of conservative economic policy is. Be sure to not include anything that amounts to "trusting businesses to do the right thing"
It certainly doesn't consist of "allowing people to do anything." It's more about trusting them to act in their self interests. The "right thing" is too vague. They certainly aren't trusted to not break the law. These policies are generally against using the force of government to direct economic decisions of private actors. Exceptions are made, and of course no two people fully agree on anything.
You seem to be confusing American conservatism with anarcho-capitalism.
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Oh, I trust businesses to act in their immediate self interest. I trust that they will do so at every available opportunity, in fact, and damn the people, animals, and ecosystems they destroy in doing so.
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Aren't you principled. We're off topic. You have a ream of on-topic madness to address.
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allowing businesses to do whatever the fuck they want and, at least according to the politicians, "trusting" them to "do the right thing"
And the answer is to
grant the government to form committees to do whatever the fuck they want and, at least according to the politicians, "trusting" them to "do the right thing"
All you did was transpose the corruption.
That's our point.
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Oh, I trust businesses to act in their immediate self interest. I trust that they will do so at every available opportunity, in fact, and damn the people, animals, and ecosystems they destroy in doing so.
People, animals and ecosystems are not the purview of economic policy. That would be OSHA, DNR and EPA. None of which set economic policy.
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Oh, I trust businesses to act in their immediate self interest. I trust that they will do so at every available opportunity, in fact, and damn the people, animals, and ecosystems they destroy in doing so.
You know for all the
Businesses aren't people.
You sure are acting as if they are.
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I trust that they will do so at every available opportunity, in fact, and damn the people, animals, and ecosystems they destroy in doing so.
Yes, they are often interested in that. Things that hold them back include public opinion and individual conscience. We also have laws about pollution, fraud and violence. But that stuff is sort of breaking out of economic policy, nevermind that we've identified some confusion on your part about this topic.
In particular, and for the record, whaling is illegal for US Citizens, and I'm not aware of anyone advocating changing that.
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@Fox said:
allowing businesses to do whatever the fuck they want and, at least according to the politicians, "trusting" them to "do the right thing"
And the answer is to
grant the government to form committees to do whatever the fuck they want and, at least according to the politicians, "trusting" them to "do the right thing"
All you did was transpose the corruption.
That's our point.
Transposing it onto the government at least grants some measure of accountability in the form of election results. You can't vote out patent trolls or strip miners or whale hunters.
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I'm not aware of anyone advocating changing that.
The fuck I'm not! @Lorne_Kates, can you get with this, or have you got your hands full*?
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Transposing it onto the government at least grants some measure of accountability in the form of election results.
Uh huh.
You can't vote out patent trolls or strip miners or whale hunters.
History shows that it's a lot easier to get rid of a business than a government.
It's amazing how useful this quote is:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
― C.S. Lewis
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History shows that it's a lot easier to get rid of a business than a government.
Recent history shows that it's actually very difficult to get rid of a large business.
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Transposing it onto the government at least grants some measure of accountability in the form of election results. You can't vote out patent trolls or strip miners or whale hunters.
It's your burden to prove that this has been more effective at reducing corruption.
Succeeding requires at least ignoring Louisiana's history.
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Henhouse guards eagerly sought, must be trustworthy.
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Whaling is just the most egregious abuse of
boatship ownership that occurs. Overfishing is, while less serious in terms of each individual case, much more common, and wholly allowed by the US.