I think Soylent dude has lost it; now with moar renewable energy inverter talk
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This happened to me growing up. We moved from FL (left the fridge there) to CA (had to buy a fridge). Two years later, we moved from CA (took the fridge with us) back to FL (already had a fridge). Wherever we moved after that, we kept the second fridge in the garage or basement. It was pretty nice to have: plenty of room for sodas, beer, snacks, frozen meats, etc., without crowding the kitchen fridge.
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Wherever we moved after that, we kept the second fridge in the garage or basement.
That's great if you're not living in a place that lacks both.
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They probably take the garage along with the fridge when they move.
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They probably take the garage along with the fridge when they move.
http://cdn.emgn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Seems-Legit-14.jpg
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I'm not familiar with this meme, it doesn't parse. Is that the point?
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But what is it that the van doesn't suspect?
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Bad grammar.
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But what is it that the van doesn't suspect?
I don't know, but you can probably abuse the "report a concern" form here to ask them: http://www.nick.com/info/report-a-concern.html
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someone with featureless chrome eyes, a stainless steel arm, and reflexes good enough to snatch a fly from the air,
Mr. Miyagi?!?
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Does anybody remember that old sketch comedy show on Nickelodeon, "You Can't Do That On Television?" Then did a sketch once where the family moving out took the toilets, I remember it being pretty funny but I'm probably wrong because I was a dumb kid when I saw it.
Still the idea of the people moving out taking the toilets with them is pretty funny.
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Ah. Well, that's easy enough to run off of an "off-grid" power system...
Many "off-grid" systems (at least those installed by code) aren't really "off-grid" they're more "grid-supplementing". For example, if you have a properly installed set of solar panels and you are hooked up to the grid because of legal reasons, if the grid experiences a power outage, the solar panels will not continue supplying power to your home. POwer from the panels to your house will be cut once the system detects that the grid is no longer supplying power. Don't ask me what the reasoning for that is, I'm still trying to figure it out.
tl;dr: If you really want to get off grid, you have to move to where you can no longer connect to the grid.
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@Gurth said:
someone with featureless chrome eyes, a stainless steel arm, and reflexes good enough to snatch a fly from the air,
Mr. Miyagi?!?
No, Daniel-san. Mr. Miyagi was unable to catch the fly.
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Yeah, but then one that looks badass, not like somebody’s Japanese grandfather.
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@tarunik said:
Ah. Well, that's easy enough to run off of an "off-grid" power system...
Many "off-grid" systems (at least those installed by code) aren't really "off-grid" they're more "grid-supplementing". For example, if you have a properly installed set of solar panels and you are hooked up to the grid because of legal reasons, if the grid experiences a power outage, the solar panels will not continue supplying power to your home. POwer from the panels to your house will be cut once the system detects that the grid is no longer supplying power. Don't ask me what the reasoning for that is, I'm still trying to figure it out.
tl;dr: If you really want to get off grid, you have to move to where you can no longer connect to the grid.
It depends on your setup - the grid connected style you're talking about is simply cheaper.
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Does anybody remember that old sketch comedy show on Nickelodeon, "You Can't Do That On Television?" Then did a sketch once where the family moving out took the toilets, I remember it being pretty funny but I'm probably wrong because I was a dumb kid when I saw it.
Used to watch it all the time. The only sketch I remember in any detail was also toilet humor: mom walks in on son sitting on the toilet, tells him they're now rationing their toilet paper usage, and hands him a wad. Son says, "I usually use twice as much!" Mom replies, "Use both sides."
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It depends on your setup - the grid connected style you're talking about is simply cheaper.
And legal-er (at least according to the codes I have to deal with).
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Don't ask me what the reasoning for that is, I'm still trying to figure it out.
It's not that hard: it means that you only have one set of wiring. If you're asking why grid-tied systems cut themselves off, it's in case a tree comes down down the street and cuts the wire there. If your grid-tie didn't cut itself off, you'd actually energize the street wire, and the linemen three houses down or whatever could get electrocuted by your solar panels. Although practically speaking the concern was always more about generators.
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If you really want to get off grid, you have to move to where you can no longer connect to the grid.
That's actually not, strictly speaking, true.
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@rad131304 said:
It depends on your setup - the grid connected style you're talking about is simply cheaper.
And legal-er (at least according to the codes I have to deal with).
I know we've talked about using the bi-directional ones (where it supplies the house or the grid) on some projects, but the ones that cut of when the grid goes down are always cheaper so we never even bother looking at the code. That could, in fact, be the case.
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@abarker said:
Don't ask me what the reasoning for that is, I'm still trying to figure it out.
It's not that hard: it means that you only have one set of wiring. If you're asking why grid-tied systems cut themselves off, it's in case a tree comes down down the street and cuts the wire there. If your grid-tie didn't cut itself off, you'd actually energize the street wire, and the linemen three houses down or whatever could get electrocuted by your solar panels. Although practically speaking the concern was always more about generators.
To me, it would make more sense to have a circuit in place to cut the outflow of power if the grid power stops. Then your solar panels could still provide power to your home during an outage, and still provide the benefit of selling excess to the grid when the grid is active.
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@FrostCat said:
@abarker said:
Don't ask me what the reasoning for that is, I'm still trying to figure it out.
It's not that hard: it means that you only have one set of wiring. If you're asking why grid-tied systems cut themselves off, it's in case a tree comes down down the street and cuts the wire there. If your grid-tie didn't cut itself off, you'd actually energize the street wire, and the linemen three houses down or whatever could get electrocuted by your solar panels. Although practically speaking the concern was always more about generators.
To me, it would make more sense to have a circuit in place to cut the outflow of power if the grid power stops. Then your solar panels could still provide power to your home during an outage, and still provide the benefit of selling excess to the grid when the grid is active.
The bigger problem is handling ground and phase as the grid goes up and down.
Edit:
Also selling to the gird is basically impossible in most US States - the best you can hope for is 0 aggregate cost. It, basically, comes down to rules about what is a provider from a "utility" standpoint.
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@abarker said:
@FrostCat said:
It's not that hard: it means that you only have one set of wiring. If you're asking why grid-tied systems cut themselves off, it's in case a tree comes down down the street and cuts the wire there. If your grid-tie didn't cut itself off, you'd actually energize the street wire, and the linemen three houses down or whatever could get electrocuted by your solar panels. Although practically speaking the concern was always more about generators.
To me, it would make more sense to have a circuit in place to cut the outflow of power if the grid power stops. Then your solar panels could still provide power to your home during an outage, and still provide the benefit of selling excess to the grid when the grid is active.
The bigger problem is handling ground and phase as the grid goes up and down.
Good point. You could probably design something that wouldn't be noticeably affected by the grid going down. The real difficulty would be trying to match up when the grid comes back on, you'd probably have a brief hiccup as the system matched the grid. And you'd probably have some more significant problems if the grid went up and down multiple times in a short period.
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Also selling to the gird is basically impossible in most US States - the best you can hope for is 0 aggregate cost. It, basically, comes down to rules about what is a provider from a "utility" standpoint.
Arizona allows it. That's probably why personal solar systems are catching on around here. Though it's rare to end up with the utility owing you money, I have heard that it happens on rare occasions (mostly when a family takes a week or two vacation in the middle of a billing cycle).
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@rad131304 said:
Also selling to the gird is basically impossible in most US States - the best you can hope for is 0 aggregate cost. It, basically, comes down to rules about what is a provider from a "utility" standpoint.
Arizona allows it. That's probably why personal solar systems are catching on around here. Though it's rare to end up with the utility owing you money, I have heard that it happens on rare occasions (mostly when a family takes a week or two vacation in the middle of a billing cycle).
Arizona is an exception; usually if you want to get to sell to the grid, you forego net metered billing in favor of wholesale kW pricing which is almost always a bad deal for the homeowner.
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Many "off-grid" systems (at least those installed by code) aren't really "off-grid" they're more "grid-supplementing". For example, if you have a properly installed set of solar panels and you are hooked up to the grid because of legal reasons, if the grid experiences a power outage, the solar panels will not continue supplying power to your home. POwer from the panels to your house will be cut once the system detects that the grid is no longer supplying power. Don't ask me what the reasoning for that is, I'm still trying to figure it out.
That's basically an "anti-backfeed" provision, as well as a function of inverters that use the incoming line as a frequency reference for their output.
You can go fully off-grid and remain Code-compliant, though, at least as far as the NEC is concerned -- you are a "separately derived system" at that point.
And legal-er (at least according to the codes I have to deal with).
That's a Phoenix, AZ quirk.It's not that hard: it means that you only have one set of wiring. If you're asking why grid-tied systems cut themselves off, it's in case a tree comes down down the street and cuts the wire there. If your grid-tie didn't cut itself off, you'd actually energize the street wire, and the linemen three houses down or whatever could get electrocuted by your solar panels. Although practically speaking the concern was always more about generators.
Yep. While it's theoretically possible for a grid-tied system to operate in an interlocked mode, where it can cut out the incoming feed during a feed drop while continuing to keep the lights on in your house -- it's a fair bit harder to pull off, and I don't know of any COTS hardware that does it.To me, it would make more sense to have a circuit in place to cut the outflow of power if the grid power stops. Then your solar panels could still provide power to your home during an outage, and still provide the benefit of selling excess to the grid when the grid is active.
Agreed; I think this is possible with a custom inverter and CTs on the grid feed that can sense if current's no longer flowing on it...Good point. You could probably design something that wouldn't be noticeably affected by the grid going down. The real difficulty would be trying to match up when the grid comes back on, you'd probably have a brief hiccup as the system matched the grid. And you'd probably have some more significant problems if the grid went up and down multiple times in a short period.
Yeah, frequency/phase sync upon a grid restoration would be the other annoying problem with this approach.
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You can go fully off-grid and remain Code-compliant, though, at least as far as the NEC is concerned
ARGUMENT_DENIED. The NEC, despite it's name, is not a national code at all. Each provision may or may not apply in any given jurisdiction. Every municipality adopts its own standards which may or may not be based on the NEC. Even should a municipality adopt the NEC, they may add or remove provisions to suit local needs.
@abarker said:
And legal-er (at least according to the codes I have to deal with).
That's a Phoenix, AZ quirk.Good try, but my residence doesn't deal with Phoenix construction codes.
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I noticed nothing in the article about bathing? While water is not electricity, it is the typical source of energy for heating it.
Of course, if they guy does not wash his clothes, and only buys a few sets per month while living in LA in the summer...maybe bathing is non-point if you are wearing filthy clothes?
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ARGUMENT_DENIED. The NEC, despite it's name, is not a national code at all. Each provision may or may not apply in any given jurisdiction. Every municipality adopts its own standards which may or may not be based on the NEC. Even should a municipality adopt the NEC, they may add or remove provisions to suit local needs.
Most jurisdictions adopt the NEC rather straightforwardly -- it is only a few very large cities and one rather special state that go their own way...
(Besides, hacking on the separately derived system provisions in the NEC is not for the faint of heart; it'd be very easy to create a situation where "oops, generators are illegal" or some other screw-up of similarly epic magnitude if you aren't intimately familiar with that section of the Code, which I can guarantee you that your average city council isn't)
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Good try, but my residence doesn't deal with Phoenix construction codes
So you're saying that it's a state code requirement that all habitable structures are grid-connected? Or are you in some suburb with a goofy name?
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So you're saying that it's a state code requirement that all habitable structures are grid-connected? Or are you in some suburb with a goofy name?
I'm in a suburb, currently been pinpointed in Buckeye (and no, that doesn't narrow things down much). Once my new house is finished, I'll be moving to a different suburb.
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I noticed nothing in the article about bathing? While water is not electricity, it is the typical source of energy for heating it.
He's very into the whole ascetic vibe. Maybe he just uses cold water or pretends he's French or has a gym membership.
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To me, it would make more sense to have a circuit in place to cut the outflow of power if the grid power stops. Then your solar panels could still provide power to your home during an outage, and still provide the benefit of selling excess to the grid when the grid is active.
If I remember correctly, the inverter will provide electricity into your house from the solar panels/batteries, but it cuts your house off from the grid.
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You could probably design something that wouldn't be noticeably affected by the grid going down. The real difficulty would be trying to match up when the grid comes back on, you'd probably have a brief hiccup as the system matched the grid. And you'd probably have some more significant problems if the grid went up and down multiple times in a short period.
Essentially, every modern commercial inverter you can buy these days will have islanding capability to cut your house off from the grid if the latter fails. It's built into them all, I believe by law. Generators, I believe, are separate matter and don't necessarily have the capability.
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While it's theoretically possible for a grid-tied system to operate in an interlocked mode, where it can cut out the incoming feed during a feed drop while continuing to keep the lights on in your house -- it's a fair bit harder to pull off, and I don't know of any COTS hardware that does it.
I used to pay closer attention to this, because I was considering having an off-grid/grid-tied retreat/camp, and I am almost positive that, as I have said, all commercially-available inverters for home solar power systems are required by law to have these.
ETA: Here's probably more than you want to know.
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Essentially, every modern commercial inverter you can buy these days will have islanding capability to cut your house off from the grid if the latter fails. It's built into them all, I believe by law. Generators, I believe, are separate matter and don't necessarily have the capability.
My understanding is that an inverter that trips on islanding will cut out completely, instead of disconnecting the powered facility from the grid (this can be done by shunt tripping the grid mains disconnect).
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I believe there's multiple types. You can buy an inverter that you plug into an outlet and into some panels, and it'll feed your house. The one I found on amazon says it has anti-islanding.
IIRC--again, it's been years--there's a different kind that people who do off-grid/grid-tie whole-house systems use, and the inverter connects near the meter. It's supposed to be able to keep powering the house without backfeeding into the grid, because otherwise the entire system would be worthless.
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Watchdog group says Soylent’s cadmium and lead levels violate CA law
Group also has similar Proposition 65 complaints about Hershey's Chocolate.
In the comments a number of people are calling the Soylent creator batshit insane (and some of them are referencing the op-ed that sparked this topic.)
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He might have issues, but I don't think you can apply "batshit" levels of insanity to a guy who legit identified an unmet meet and founded a business to produce it.
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I wasn't. Go back and re-read this thread if you feel you need a refresher on him.
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"you" meaning the general "you", not the FrostCat "you".
Goddamned, people. Third graders get that.
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"you" meaning the general "you", not the FrostCat "you".
A vote has been taken, and the result was that you are the last person in the entire solar system who is allowed to complain about people misunderstanding ambiguity in what others wrote.
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I don't think you can apply "batshit" levels of insanity to a guy who legit identified an unmet meet and founded a business to produce it.
DeviantArt - The Largest Online Art Gallery and Community
DeviantArt is where art and community thrive. Explore over 350 million pieces of art while connecting to fellow artists and art enthusiasts.
Go there, look at the need that was unmet and founded a business and then tell you can still make such a broad assertion.
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BTW those of you who remember that thread about the Goblins comic and the author getting screwed by Kickstarter might find it amusing to note that the author has started eating Soylent as a food replacement, because[1] he's too lazy to spend the time it takes preparing food. I'm not even exaggerating: "More than once, I’ve had Pop Tarts for dinner, simply because I wanted to get something in me and rush back to drawing."
[1] in the interests of fairness, he did point out he's prone to ulcers and (as of the writing) three weeks in he wasn't having any problems with them.
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He might have issues, but I don't think you can apply "batshit" levels of insanity to a guy who legit identified an unmet meet and founded a business to produce it.
I don't see how one precludes the other.
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And to be fair, I also have no interest in preparing food. Some people love it, but I hate spending time on it. Even so, going soylent sounds like taking it too far.
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Some people love it, but I hate spending time on it.
I don't cook for the sake of cooking, because it's not something I like as an end, but I am willing to put a little bit of time and effort into making sure what I eat is not just edible. I'm sure we've all had the equivalent of Pop-Tarts for dinner before but as an adult I don't like to do that much, so I am willing to, say, spend the time to make tacos or spaghetti.
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I don't cook for the sake of cooking, because it's not something I like as an end, but I am willing to put a little bit of time and effort into making sure what I eat is not just edible.
I LOVE cooking. Put me in the kitchen at the end of a long day with a Jack and Coke and something to prepare and I am a happy camper. I put it down to needing to do something analog to escape the digital world that I work in.
On the other hand...
I'm sure we've all had the equivalent of Pop-Tarts for dinner before
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Sometimes I really enjoy cooking, others it's a chore. I really learned to cook because then I could eat stuff that tastes the way I like it.
