Windows 10 can-of-worms, Episode II: @Mike_Hunt strikes back
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Well, next time my desktop is being used as an insulin pump I will be sure and secure it. Until that time, I will keep running as root.
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i know my keyboard shortcuts.
Here's your cane. You'll be getting your Geezers Club initiation packet in the mail shortly.
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Here's your cane.
how did you get my cane?! i've been looking for it weeks now! some utter prick stole it!
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I do not remember this happening on Win7 with password on it.
I could be misremembering, or stuff might have changed. Didn't actively used Windows like that for years. The only install I occasionally use is in a VM and I don't have a password there. It gets restored from snapshots all the time anyway.
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I am the only user on the machine and don't want to be bothered by it.
That's not a good reason. That's not why it exists...
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how did you get my cane?! i've been looking for it weeks now! some utter prick stole it!
It was actually a new one. I hope you like the floral camo pattern.
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Very true, doesn't alter the fact that I don't want to be bothered by it. I fully accept and understand the risks of turning it off.
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Anyway, the way I see it is this:
I agree with everything you said except, perhaps, 10.
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If you're bothered enough by being asked for password a lot when not running as root, I have to wonder what the hell are you doing that it's frequent enough?
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Actually, it has been so long since I didn't run as root, it probably isn't an issue anymore.
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Addendum: UAC doesn't even need a password. It literally means a single click. Which incidentally also changes my mind into "you are running as Admin, don't f**k this up" mode
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The biggest roadblock I've hit with the ribbon is if I'm looking for a feature and don't already know where to go for it, I don't have any idea how to find it. 95% of the time it's faster to ask google where to go before I even touch the ribbon. Which highlights the real problem - discoverability is still terrible. I was reading a UI book a few years ago that suggested having a basic menu with the most common commands alongside a text search function to find the feature you wanted to use. We are well past the point where this is feasible. This is effectively what I'm doing now, it's just that Google is picking up the slack because MS is fixing the wrong problems.
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That's actually a thing in Office 16. And it works pretty much exactly like I'd want it to.
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Which is fine. Personally, I prefer asking for authentication (by default, you apparently can make UAC do that) as well, it makes it harder for someone to mess with my system in case I fuck up and leave it unlocked or something.
It's probably tinfoil hat territory, yes. Just a personal preference, I guess.
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The biggest roadblock I've hit with the ribbon is if I'm looking for a feature and don't already know where to go for it, I don't have any idea how to find it.
So because it's a Ribbon, not a menu, logic no longer applies?
@fwd said:95% of the time it's faster to ask google where to go before I even touch the ribbon.
Same with menus.
@fwd said:Which highlights the real problem - discoverability is still terrible.
Not a fault of the Ribbon, but of how the developers arranged it. Again, that issue existed with menus.I have yet to hear of an issue that is specific to the Ribbon; everything I've heard against it applies equally if not more so to menus.
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At least you understand the risks. I know a lot of people go around proclaiming that everyone should turn UAC off and... well... I can't stand that kind of crap.
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That's true. I generally keep access to my computer locked down so that's not as much of a concern for me. I kinda live in a USAF environment, where you always press ď…ş+L before you get up so it's a habit now.
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@fwd said:
The biggest roadblock I've hit with the ribbon is if I'm looking for a feature and don't already know where to go for it, I don't have any idea how to find it.
So because it's a Ribbon, not a menu, logic no longer applies?
@fwd said:95% of the time it's faster to ask google where to go before I even touch the ribbon.
Same with menus.
@fwd said:Which highlights the real problem - discoverability is still terrible.
Not a fault of the Ribbon, but of how the developers arranged it. Again, that issue existed with menus.I have yet to hear of an issue that is specific to the Ribbon; everything I've heard against it applies equally if not more so to menus.
If the ribbon has the same problems as menus, then what's the point of it? With menus I'd already learned how to get to the important stuff. What do I get in the tradeoff for making that all obsolete?
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Better discoverability, as I have said above, and has been borne out by all of MS's own UI research
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That is not something I have observed. In fact, that was one of my initial points, which you seemed to have acknowledged.
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In fact, that was one of my initial points, which you seemed to have acknowledged.
Bullshit; I never said anything of the sort.The problem here is you look at the Ribbon, go 'OMFG IT TEH HARDZ', and bail to Google.
A normal person would look at the Ribbon and think 'Right, I want to fiddle with a table… oh look, there's something called 'TABLE': let's click it… ah, there are the table tools! Oh, I didn't know I could do that to my tables! Let's try it! Ooh, I like that! I'm going to use it again!'
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That is not something I have observe
Well, I'm sure your anecdote beats out all the analytics and user testing Microsoft did.
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I said "bad discoverability" and you said "developer's fault". Where's the bullshit there?
And I don't know why you're yelling about tables. Is that how you react when someone points out your contradictions? Lose your shit and make up strawmen argument?
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I'd like to think so.
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I said "bad discoverability" and you said "developer's fault". Where's the bullshit there?
The bullshit is blaming the Ribbon; it's not Microsoft's fault other developers don't know how to arrange their UIs.
@fwd said:And I don't know why you're yelling about tables. Is that how you react when someone points out your contradictions? Lose your shit and make up strawmen argument?
Excuse me? I was giving you a fucking example of how a properly laid-out Ribbon is better than a menu! Or did you just see an all-caps word and skip the rest?
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@fwd said:
I said "bad discoverability" and you said "developer's fault". Where's the bullshit there?
The bullshit is blaming the Ribbon; it's not Microsoft's fault other developers don't know how to arrange their UIs.
@fwd said:And I don't know why you're yelling about tables. Is that how you react when someone points out your contradictions? Lose your shit and make up strawmen argument?
Excuse me? I was giving you a fucking example of how a properly laid-out Ribbon is better than a menu! Or did you just see an all-caps word and skip the rest?What developers are you talking about? Microsoft's developers?
I already know where the table stuff is in menus or the ribbon. I'm not talking about basic functions, i'm talking about features two or three clicks deep. I don't know how you got from "google for unknown features" to "can't find tables".
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So you never click things, just to see what they do? You always fall back to Google? Because that's just shit, dude.
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Let's go with a different example.
In Word 2003, if I wanted to play with indents and spacing, I'd have to go through the menus, open a dialog, play with the settings, OK out, decide I don't like it, and redo the whole dance.
In Word 2013, with the Ribbon, I go to the Layout tab, and click spinners. And see the changes in real time.Now, isn't that second one so much easier?
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Interesting. I don't know how you get that way, then. At home I don't have a password, and UAC doesn't ask me for it. At work, I do and it does. (I have a VM at home, with a one-character password so I can share directories, and UAC asks me for a password there, too.)
Are you running as a limited user? That will require the admin password. My account is admin so the only prompt is the ok/cancel one. I see this same behavior on Win7, Win8 (and .1) and Win10.
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So you never click things, just to see what they do? You always fall back to Google? Because that's just shit, dude.
No, clicking through things in the menu system is how I used find stuff and it had a pretty good success rate. I tried that for a while when I got to the ribbon and had far less luck. If it wasn't already on the ribbon or in an obvious category to check, I'd get nowhere and fall back to google. And the google method wound up being less time than I had spent poking around in the ribbon. Eventually I stopped doing the first step since it wasn't accomplishing anything.
Which is my whole point. They moved stuff around, but it's not any easier to find things below surface level.
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So you never click things, just to see what they do? You always fall back to Google? Because that's just shit, dude.
@fwd And if you don't understand how to click on shit to find out what it does, there's even a handy XKCD flowchart for you!
</mg>
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No, clicking through things in the menu system is how I used find stuff and it had a pretty good success rate.
Because you learned where things were by clicking until you found them! And you can do that with the Ribbon too, if you actually bother to put the effort in!Don't compare a decade of using menus to ten minutes of using the Ribbon.
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Which is my whole point. They moved stuff around, but it's not any easier to find things below surface level.
Agree to disagree - I find the Ribbon significantly more useful; and Microsoft's own usability testing shows this as well. So STFU, GOML, and GPS. In whatever order you'd like. Your confirmation bias is not wanted here.
Filed Under: I'd Ribbon that for you, but there's no option in Discourse
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If I can't find it in 6 seconds, why should I spend any more time doing that when I can ask google?
And for your Word example, that's a nice improvement. But it has nothing to do with my issue. Here's a test for you: How do you disable auto correct squiggles on the screen? Hint: it's not anywhere near the spellcheck button. I know, because I looked then I asked google.
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Spellcheck isn't autocorrect; why were you looking for an autocorrect option under spellcheck?
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@fwd said:
Which is my whole point. They moved stuff around, but it's not any easier to find things below surface level.
Agree to disagree - I find the Ribbon significantly more useful; and Microsoft's own usability testing shows this as well. So STFU, GOML, and GPS. In whatever order you'd like. Your confirmation bias is not wanted here.
Filed Under: I'd Ribbon that for you, but there's no option in Discourse
"You have a different perspective than me, so fuck off"
I'm sorry, is this your forum? Do I have to ask permission of you to post here? Because I could not give any fucks less what you think I should do.
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- Spelling/grammar tools. Anything that makes a squiggly line.
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@fwd said:
I'm sorry, is this your forum?
It is. I am the real Jeff Atwood.
Then I am most definitely going to disregard anything you say.
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How do you disable auto correct squiggles on the screen?
What kind of doofus would want to do that?!
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@fwd said:
How do you disable auto correct squiggles on the screen?
What kind of doofus would want to do that?!
So I can put a doc with code samples up on the big screen without distracting squiggles everywhere?
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Did you really need to make yourself look that much worse?
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@FrostCat said:
@fwd said:
How do you disable auto correct squiggles on the screen?
What kind of doofus would want to do that?!
So I can put a doc with code samples up on the big screen without distracting squiggles everywhere?
So, select the text and turn off spell/grammar check by unticking the checkbox that's still in the same damn spot that it's been since like 2K3? I'm confused why you would disable it for the whole doc ....
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So I can put a doc with code samples up on the big screen without distracting squiggles everywhere?
Why in the fuck do you have code samples in Word‽
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And if so, why not as a screenshot? No one should be copying code from Word. It's only about 2% more likely to compile than from a PDF.
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Spelling/grammar tools. Anything that makes a squiggly line.
Did it ever occur to you that maybe the settings for a feature are somewhere where you set settings? No, you just went to the button that performs a spellcheck and expected it to be some sort of magic fucking mind-reading genie or something.
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It's obvious!
We need Markdown support in Word so we can use triple backticks and BAM!, problem solved.
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Why in the fuck do you have code samples in Word‽
I mean I suppose I could see a use case here - in any situation where you're not showing code on a PowerPoint but need to use a computer that doesn't have a proper syntax highlighter installed.
