Need Help with Office politics
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The number one reason why people don't treat testing like a skill set is because of people like that who treat their jobs as a joke and give the rest of us a bad name. :/ I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
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Before filing a bug report, a good tester will isolate the problem, generalize it to any other areas that might take the same kind of data, and produce concise and clear steps to repeat
Are these real people you're talking about?:(
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I promise, good testers exist. Heck, untrained, we do a decent job of creating Discourse bug reports here.
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1.I still have not gotten around to getting a lawyer about my contract
2.The Team lead has come forward listened to our woes and has helped make things smoother.Things have been relatively quiet for a while
If things have actually improved, then you may not need a lawyer at this time. But remember to keep that option open should the current status prove to not be long lasting.
We re a small team and have to almost talk with everyone on a daily basis.Anything too direct or stern would make things comfortable for me,the people involved and the innocent co-workers.
I'm going to assume you meant uncomfortable, otherwise this complaint doesn't make sense. Here's the thing: sometimes you have to make it uncomfortable in order to make things better. The question is: are you in a position where you make an impact?
How do i tell them to pick their shit up and act more responsible.Every problem we've had and I've written about has been discussed with them in the nicest way possible.NICEST WAY!
Stop worrying about being nice, it isn't getting you anywhere. I'm not saying you get mean. Simply worry about CYA. Stick to the facts. From what you've been saying, it sounds like being nice is preventing them from getting your point.
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The number one reason why people don't treat testing like a skill set is because of people like that who treat their jobs as a joke and give the rest of us a bad name
No no no no .Oh my god I don't hate testers,I respect them,they make sure shit works the way it is supposed to,I get all that.I don't take it personally and I try hard not to get my professional anger and what not affect my thinking about them as a person but goddamn some people act Thick.I've worked with one tester who was golden,sadly left work a couple months back.
testers have the unfortunate job of telling the dev team their baby is ugly
Happy to acknowledge the fact but much harder when you're told "one of your babies is throwing poop on the mailman,sort that shit out,I dont know which baby,but yeah..get that baby sorted by tomorrow morning"
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Reply: Frobinator reliably frobinates frobinater-Type A when given an A, please see attached unit test results, which is clearly at odds with the initial bug report."
And leave it at that. Time wasted: however long it took to type/research that answer and get the results together.
If they decide to volunteer the information that they aren't passing an A, you close the ticket as 'Behaving as intended'
Don't bother doing this bit - this is their job:
And I go digging and in the end find the bug and go "Hey why are you giving the frobinator "B" and expecting it to frobinate frobinater-Type A"
Agreed. This is exactly what you should be doing. If they won't give you the details of the bug, document a good faith effort to repro, and then close it. Most people who will reopen it will say, something like "But I did it this way ...", and then you have the details you need.
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Oh my god I don't hate testers
Sorry, I didn't think you did, I just mean that in the industry it's hard to find people who value testing as a skill set. People tend to go about hiring testers as though anyone who can't hack it as a developer is good enough for a tester, and that's not the case. Or they'll use interns or high-school dropouts because "anyone can test, right?"
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I'm going to assume you meant uncomfortable
I did mean uncomfortable.Sorry about that.
The question is: are you in a position where you make an impact?
I certainly do.No bragging,I ve been putting a lot of work into what i do(I'm working in Healthcare if you have not read my older posts and somebody is actually gonna use this in a Hospital which is scary).A few sensible people know that and treat me that way.I don't wanna be the new guy(have been here for a relatively lesser time than others in the team) who gets labeled "Oh yeah the new kid on the block is acting like a cunt trying to get us all efficent...oooh ahhhh..fuck that guy"
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I promise, good testers exist.
I'm a much better tester than software developer.
The only reason I got into software development is that most companies here in the US have a career path like:
Start by testing manually, you know the fun stuff you actually like and are good at. Then do automated testing, you know the boring shit. Then become a programmer. There's no other way to get a raise in salary, EVER."
Most people do not have the detail-orientation to be good testers. Take a look at this forum for a great example (well, the forum itself, but also the people in the forum): you can place a screenshot right here showing NetBeans rendering "size 14" font at size 12.5-ish, and people genuinely do not see the bug. Then I berate them for being idiots.
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I just mean that in the industry it's hard to find people who value testing as a skill set. People tend to go about hiring testers as though anyone who can't hack it as a developer is good enough for a tester, and that's not the case. Or they'll use interns or high-school dropouts because "anyone can test, right?"
It is certainly the way people see things in where I live but I'd like to think that Developers and Testers are somewhere along the line of Man and Wife and maybe the guy who makes builds being the other woman,other than that I do rely heavily on testers and competent,understanding testers would make my life so so easy
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Start by testing manually, you know the fun stuff you actually like. Then do automated testing, you know the boring shit. Then become a programmer. There's no other way to get a raise in salary, EVER."
Did not even know this is an actual career path until now.
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It's the only QA career path at every US company I've worked for, including big ones like Microsoft. It's goddamned tragic.
You talked about your best tester leaving a couple months ago, hook up with them for drinks and ask why. I wouldn't be surprised at all if you heard something like what I just outlined.
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Yeah, I started in automation (they were looking for Java programmers to teach automation skills to), branched out into more and more general QA stuff, and now I'm the sole SQA expert at my new company. My salary is comfortable enough, but I don't anticipate it going up too much higher, so if I want a substantial increase in pay I'll either a) rely on my husband's more traditional career path or b) go into consulting. Thankfully, I quite like my job at the pay rate I'm at; I anticipate feeling much different in 5-10 years, but carpe diem.
Interestingly enough, I'm terrible at visual regressions, probably because of the learning disorder I mentioned elsewhere. I'm great at methodically thinking through and documenting behavior, so I tend to do very well at testing functionality.
It's the only QA career path at every US company
Developers are just starting to get traction for having a career path that doesn't jump into "And now, become a business person and manage a team of people who do what you love while you get slowly more bitter and unhappy with the amount of administrivia in your daily life" halfway up. QA is even worse because there's no real appreciation for the difference between someone who is good at their job and someone who sucks at it, let alone backing for training and development.
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Developers are just starting to get traction for having a career path that doesn't jump into "And now, become a business person and manage a team of people who do what you love while you get slowly more bitter and unhappy with the amount of administrivia in your daily life" halfway up.
We don't have that problem around here, because everybody's competing with Microsoft and Microsoft fixed that particular stupidity like 25 years ago. So I'm fortunate there, it's quite common to see people who are paid like SVPs and still write code 9/10ths of the working day.
Also I think it's less of an issue since the Peter Principle gained enough mindshare that you can just mention it in business and people generally know what you mean.
QA is even worse because there's no real appreciation for the difference between someone who is good at their job and someone who sucks at it, let alone backing for training and development.
Other than the "luck" factor (Bob always seems to get the toughest bugs...), it's actually pretty easy to measure, if you have a competent ticketing system and timeclock. Companies just don't bother.
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because everybody's competing with Microsoft
Completely off-topic question,should I continue being tied down to Microsoft as in SQL,C#,VB.NET(Working on all of them at the moment).
Love C# but so much FUD going on and still not well-informed to understand the supposed Microsoft-Hate(tech and career wise)
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it's actually pretty easy to measure[...] Companies just don't bother.
Yeah, that's why I said no appreciation, not no appreciable difference.
We don't have that problem around here
Must be nice. I live in Ohio :/
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Love C# but so much FUD going on and still not well-informed to understand the supposed Microsoft-Hate(tech and career wise)
It's a hard time to love C# for a couple reasons:
- Microsoft doesn't know what the fuck they're doing with it at this point. WinForms? WebForms? MVC? XAML? Linq-To-SQL? Entity Framework? Let's can XNA, a great game dev/distribution library, and focus our efforts instead of making 13 duplicate ORMs (none of which can really handle many-to-many relationships sanely.) Oh, and why should each version be compatible with the version that came before? Foolish! EF6 will just break every-fucking-thing that came before! It worked so well for Python 3!
(That said, there's still a lot more thought leadership behind .net than there ever was behind Java.)
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C# has very little mindshare among startups and especially web development startups. Why? I have no idea. I can only guess because idiots are focused on up-front costs of software development instead of considering total ownership cost. Or because these types of companies are always founded by Mac-using douches, and Macs don't support C# development all that well. (Of course they could buy a powerful PC and a copy of VS Pro for the cost of a equivalent Mac, but... naaah too logical.)
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Microsoft's recent "strategy" (if you can call it that) has been to pick the least-bad open source project that covers an area they are weak on, and put weight behind it. Hadoop and jQuery are both in this category. Should Microsoft develop a good map/reduce environment? Nah, just chuck a few bucks in the vague direction of Hadoop and hope they stop hating Microsoft tools so much. Should Microsoft develop a good non-relational database? How about a distributed source control product? You crazy fucker. No, they should pick an awful open source one and hope the open source community loves them now. Somehow. (While we're at it, let's also cater to the open source community by cripping our server OS based on the mythological open-source fairy-whispering that having a GUI on a server is somehow "bad".)
... actually I don't have any advice for you, just the griping, but it is a bad time to be a C# fan.
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actually I don't have any advice for you, just the griping, but it is a bad time to be a C# fan
Tell me about it . I love c# so much the muscle memory(if i may) has kicked in far beyond what could be called second nature.
EF .. love it , afraid to commit wholly
WPF.. love it afraid to commit wholly
MVC.. love it afraid to commit whollyI could go on and on and then there is this "Yo bro.Ruby is the way to go.RoR and gems and shit bro.wicked!" and "Python is the shit with reference to that obligatory XKCD comic" and it is so fucking confusing.
I don't want to commit to something that might be outdated and at the same time not do something i love because of FUD from people I'm not sure who do or do not know what they're talking about .
So much confusion It is a FUBAR ,SNAFU and FML all moulded into one.
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This!
+1 for articulating it so well
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"Yo bro.Ruby is the way to go.RoR and gems and shit bro.wicked!"
Those people are hipsters. Feel free to ignore them.
Gems are nice, but they were also nice when they were called packages and supported in perl, python, node, PHP, Java (using Maven), and .net (using NuGet).
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Well the make take-away is don't feel bad about not knowing which direction .net is going in, because it's obvious Microsoft doesn't know either.
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Nuget beats anything hands down and again,I am very biased here.
Python is awesome but does not have a good IDE and that for me is what makes the whole C# experience a lot more fluid.
Personally though tried ruby for a while ,ROR and all that and in the depths of my soul,"Unless" in ruby felt unnatural although comprehendable but still not natural esp. after people started putting unless with double negatives and what not ,I just quit(maybe I am the odd one out here,I do understand unless, but still feels quite odd.Sole reason to quit on ruby.I know,wtf).
I still have to hang out with the hipster crowd for unavoidable reasons and listen to the wonder filled land of Ruby.Python is slick though.love it.
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because it's obvious Microsoft doesn't know either.
Lol wtf am i supposed to do.I am taking exam 70-483 c# in a couple months to make sure my skills are not more rusty than I think they are and am investing quite a lot of time on this .I sure hope Microsoft does not go "Meh.." one day.
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Yeah, I had similar feelings about ruby, it just grated against everything I'd learned thus far. Python I haven't used yet, but my understanding is the general community around scripting languages has rejected IDEs in favor of IDE-like text editors like Sublime Text, so if you're looking for a good experience that's the best you'll find.
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Love C# but so much FUD going on and still not well-informed to understand the supposed Microsoft-Hate(tech and career wise)
Much of the hatred of Microsoft stems from the way their OS and Office divisions behaved in the 90s -- starting with the OS/2 mess with IBM as well as some other shady dealings that raised antitrust spectres, and moving on into the browser and office suite wars that raged back then.
Nowadays, there's some evidence that Microsoft has seen just how toxic long-term their behavior can be to their own code, and has been making steps to be a better software-world citizen, with DevDiv mostly leading the way.
My Microsoft report card:
Hardware: A. Microsoft-the-hardware-company is quite good -- don't ask me why, though!
Games: C. They've had ups (good exclusives, the original Xbox) and downs (the early 360s, the Xbox One launch fiasco), but have managed to keep their distance from the 'axis of evil' image so far, at least.
DevDiv: B. Not perfect -- Visual C++ is still a WIP on C++11 compliance, and their C99 compliance policy was a major disappointment that came around to bite them in the end, but it's a far cry from the days when VC++6 was still a mill anchor around the necks of C++ programmers.
Browser: B+. Finally, IE is getting the message that standards support and secure-by-default behavior are the way to go for a browser. ActiveX is going by the wayside, too, which can only be a good thing.
OS: C. Still on the 'great, horrible, great, horrible' schedule, and still having some 'naughty old Microsoft' issues -- especially on the mobile OS side. One major bright spot was the decision to scrap 'Consumer Windows' and get everyone on the NT kernel with XP; this, along with UAC coming of age in W7, basically saved Windows from turning into the utter malware trainwreck it could have been had home users been stuck with Windows 9x-derived OSes forevermore.
Office: D-. Sadly, the Office side seems to be the last bastion of the naughty Microsoft, having abused the standards process to shove OOXML down ISO's throat, as well as shocking its own userbase into a catatonic state with the ribbon UI's deployment. Small bright spot: the ribbon is finally beginning to overcome the initial wave of confusion it triggered.
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I don't want to commit to something that might be outdated and at the same time not do something i love because of FUD from people I'm not sure who do or do not know what they're talking about .
I'm still proudly a fan of WebForms and WinForms, because you know what? They're simple, they work, and Microsoft is pretty much forced to support them almost-eternally at this point. Stuff like Entity Framework or MVC I usually just don't bother with and roll-my-own. The learning-curve for all this shit takes longer than just writing the damned thing. (Yes yes, FrostCat, come in here and call me an idiot now.)
And hey, unlike XAML, you can actually make a Windows app that looks like a Windows app in WinForms. Shocking, I know. XAML is great for Silverlight development, but why the fuck is it still around after Silverlight is dead? I don't get it. Who wants to build a GUI in XML? I'm totally stumped.
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Python is slick though.love it.
Python is indeed quite a slick little snake to keep in your pocket; simple enough to keep in your head for the most part and easy-to-learn enough to get up to speed quickly for simple scripting chores, yet powerful enough to handle full-scale application development and endowed with a reasonably rich library ecosystem.
Python I haven't used yet, but my understanding is the general community around scripting languages has rejected IDEs in favor of IDE-like text editors like Sublime Text, so if you're looking for a good experience that's the best you'll find.
This isn't completely true in the Python world: Wing IDE and PyCharm are both quite mature.Who wants to build a GUI in XML? I'm totally stumped.
Yeah: the whole notion of 'lets stick all the GUI stuff in some other file you edit with a drag-and-drop editor, and then load it into your program' doesn't make sense to me either -- GUIs are better suited to an internal domain-specific language in my mind, due to the need to incorporate callbacks and behaviors all over the place.
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The learning-curve for all this shit takes longer than just writing the damned thing.
Completely agree here.It is all a bit too much.
Stuff like Entity Framework or MVC I usually just don't bother with and roll-my-own
I've toyed with MVC for a while and liked it .Again FUD,Anti-FUD(scott han..).EF is quite nice,made an app for personal use to track the jobs I was applying for,shitty little app with a few details but worked well,development was a breeze.
I seriously don't know which way i should head anymore
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Yeah: the whole notion of 'lets stick all the GUI stuff in some other file you edit with a drag-and-drop editor, and then load it into your program' doesn't make sense to me either
Side note: Microsoft Blend is the TRWTF.Fucking fuck it truly is.I swear
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I much prefer XAML over WinForms. I find it far easier to read and modify, and the whole MVVM DataBinding thing is slick as snot if you properly implement INotifyPropertyChanged on your data objects.
But I also hand-write XAML. Try using the drag-and-drop editor on WPF and you'll get the world's worst, slowest, most inefficient XML file ever imagined, if you're lucky.
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Side note: Microsoft Blend is the TRWTF.Fucking fuck it truly is.I swear
I totally forgot about Blend, my psyche had blocked it from memory. It's like Microsoft's version of Xcode. Buggy, unstable, crashes all the time, slow, and bloated.
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I find it far easier to read and modify, and the whole MVVM DataBinding thing is slick as snot if you properly implement INotifyPropertyChanged on your data objects.
We have been using WPF for so many years and have not implemented INotifyproperychanged anywhere.How cool is that? Shame!
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My Microsoft report card:
Oh please. This'll be good.
Hardware: A. Microsoft-the-hardware-company is quite good -- don't ask me why, though!
That is weird, they've always been excellent at hardware. I loved their networking products, I used that Microsoft wifi router until the damned thing would not go no more.
Games: C. They've had ups (good exclusives, the original Xbox) and downs (the early 360s, the Xbox One launch fiasco), but have managed to keep their distance from the 'axis of evil' image so far, at least.
I actually agree with this, shockingly. Xbox One has been a disaster since day one. The problem isn't that Sony is doing so much better, the problem is that Microsoft (apparently) expected them to learn nothing from their Playstation 3 launch disaster. The gap in hardware sales they have now is completely their own fault.
Nintendo's been cruising on nostalgia for like 12 years at this point, they're a complete non-entity as far as I'm concerned. Sure they sell a lot of units (loaded with features nobody wants like that stupid game pad thing but completely lacking in features people actually do, like a single online identity to separate game purchases from console hardware), but it's literally impossible for Sony or Microsoft to compete with warm-fuzzy nostalgia.
DevDiv: B. Not perfect -- Visual C++ is still a WIP on C++11 compliance, and their C99 compliance policy was a major disappointment that came around to bite them in the end, but it's a far cry from the days when VC++6 was still a mill anchor around the necks of C++ programmers.
Compliance to the C++ standard is about the lowest priority for a C++ development environment. At least a sane one. Frankly: who gives a shit? Compliance only matters if you're going for portability, and C++ portability has been broken-as-shit since day one.
OS: C. Still on the 'great, horrible, great, horrible' schedule,
Yeah; a lot of people thought Vista was bad. None of those people actually used it. A lot of people thought Windows 8.0 was bad. None of those people actually used it. The cycle isn't Microsoft releasing "good/bad/good/bad", the cycle is Slashdotty idiots skipping every other OS and declaring whichever OS they didn't buy as being awful.
and still having some 'naughty old Microsoft' issues -- especially on the mobile OS side.
Like what? Windows Phone is the only phone OS that lets you uninstall all the carrier-provided apps. There is literally nothing ATT or Nokia (back when they weren't MS) could do to prevent the user from uninstalling ATT Super Plus Battery Drainer Plus! from the home screen. Thank fucking God!
As far as their Store goes, it's the exact same militant policies as the Apple store (but less cost-of-entry) with the lack of any kind of moderation you get in the Android store. So it's like the worst of both worlds.
One major bright spot was the decision to scrap 'Consumer Windows' and get everyone on the NT kernel with XP;
Are you time-podding? That was done in 2001. 2001!
this, along with UAC coming of age in W7, basically saved Windows from turning into the utter malware trainwreck it could have been had home users been stuck with Windows 9x-derived OSes forevermore.
But that was never the plan. Actually, Windows 2000 was originally going to have a consumer version (that's why they ported DirectX to it). Everybody knew Windows 98 was an obsolete kludge, especially Microsoft.
Office: D-. Sadly, the Office side seems to be the last bastion of the naughty Microsoft, having abused the standards process to shove OOXML down ISO's throat,
What does that mean? What makes OOXML being a ISO standard "naughty"?
as well as shocking its own userbase into a catatonic state with the ribbon UI's deployment.
I'm even more confused about this clause. A catatonic state?
Small bright spot: the ribbon is finally beginning to overcome the initial wave of confusion it triggered.
First of all, it came out in 2007. We're still in "ancient history" territory here, and if someone who actually uses office hasn't gotten used to it in seven years, well, I'm sorry but that person is developmentally disabled.
Secondly, the Ribbon was an improvement to Office from day one. Sure there were a few confusing bits, like where the Print and Save buttons bolted off too, but it was a significant improvement to what came before, and people loved it. The only place I've seen this assumption that everybody just hates the ribbon as a matter of course is Slashdot, and that's because Slashdot is full of Luddites (who, I suspect, are all developmentally disabled.)
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yet powerful enough to handle full-scale application development
... until you need a thread.
yet powerful enough to handle full-scale application development and endowed with a reasonably rich library ecosystem.
... which contains like 5 different SOAP libraries, none of which work in the current Python release.
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I much prefer XAML over WinForms. I find it far easier to read and modify, and the whole MVVM DataBinding thing is slick as snot if you properly implement INotifyPropertyChanged on your data objects.
That always struck me as a complete ripoff of the Apple Obj-C editor. I suspect that it is one, but I'm not entirely sure... it's different-enough that maybe it was independent development.
But I also hand-write XAML.
Yeah, this is exactly what I object to. How is that better than the WinForms editor? Why is this the new "recommended" way to build desktop apps? Ridiculous.
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that stupid game pad thing
Have you ever used the WiiU gamepad? It's surprisingly easy to get used to, and as someone who prefers co-op gaming, it's really awesome to have your own screen instead of splitting. Surprise, not all gamers are introverted loners who can only form connections on the internet, some of us would like to play with the people we've decided to spend the rest of our lives with.
Basically, you're doing what you accuse Slashdot of doing.
FWIW, I've used Vista and Windows 8. Vista I could get used to after a while, but Windows 8 I just can't get my head around at all.
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... until you need a thread.
I am sorry, but you do not need threading, especially on the server side. Apache and friends got along just fine with
fork()before threading was ever invented, TYVM.... which contains like 5 different SOAP libraries, none of which work in the current Python release.
I will admit that SOAP is one of the things that doesn't turn up in the Cheeseshop for much -- most Python devs don't want to touch it with a 50' pole.
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Secondly, the Ribbon was an improvement to Office from day one.
If it was such an improvement from day one, perhaps you'd like the ribbon to make an appearance in your IDE?
I've never really liked the ribbon. I've learned to use and tolerate it. But like it? Not sure I'll ever get there.
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but Windows 8 I just can't get my head around at all.
Yeah, I have touched W8 (laptops in the lab for a college course), and it's a real, royal pain compared to W7 (which I use at work).
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That always struck me as a complete ripoff of the Apple Obj-C editor. I suspect that it is one, but I'm not entirely sure... it's different-enough that maybe it was independent development.
I spent a year or so doing Objective-C and have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
Yeah, this is exactly what I object to. How is that better than the WinForms editor? Why is this the new "recommended" way to build desktop apps? Ridiculous.
XAML gives you access to all kinds of slick things. (It's really not hard at all to write by hand which is probably why the Blend/VS designers suck so bad.) DataBinding, for one. You can bind any visual property to any data object property. Beyond that you can easily style components using ResourceDictionaries, sort of like CSS. Want all your labels left-aligned and exactly 80 px? Takes you two seconds to do that across the entire application if it's designed properly. There are lots of animation/styling/polish things you can do but we only ever did that on production Silverlight products, not internal WPF applications.
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I keep thinking "Man, if this was on a tablet, I could totally grok this." I mean, I'm still not sure how I somehow got into the chrome APP instead of the chrome APPLICATION for desktop, but I just never close windows anymore so I can find what I need when I use it for my weekly gaming sessions.
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Have you ever used the WiiU gamepad?
Yes. I hated it. The strange thing is, Nintendo makes a great controller for the Wii-U (I think it's called the "Pro" controller?), which is significantly cheaper than the gamepad, and yet they refuse to package a Wii-U with a Pro controller. Even Microsoft caved on the whole "you need to own a Kinect" thing. Nintendo has shitty products and is bull-headed.
I'm sure it's great for households that have a video game playing person and a TV-watching person and that also somehow only own a single TV. Maybe that's common in Japan, who knows.
It's surprisingly easy to get used to, and as someone who prefers co-op gaming, it's really awesome to have your own screen instead of splitting.
I don't get the point of having everybody in the same room if you're all looking at different screens. There's no practical difference between that and grabbing a headset and going online. I guess for like board/party games it makes sense?
Surprise, not all gamers are introverted loners who can only form connections on the internet, some of us would like to play with the people we've decided to spend the rest of our lives with.
Right; but you can do that on any console. Back to the original Atari 2600. Back to Pong. Somehow game consoles have gone 35 years without deleting one of their most fundamental features.
Basically, you're doing what you accuse Slashdot of doing.
No I'm not. I've used a Wii-U and the gamepad controller.
but Windows 8 I just can't get my head around at all.
Well, fair enough.
I think what people are knee-jerking about when they say "I hate the Office Ribbon" or "I hate Windows 8" isn't about the product at all. I think they're objecting to having to learn new things. Or put slightly differently, they hate change. Regardless of whether it's a positive or negative change.
The weird thing is that in society, that's generally considered a crotchety old-man thing, treated with kind of an amused disapproval: "I hate these new-fangled back-up cameras!" "Oh grandpa!"
But in tech, hatred of learning new things is mainstream, almost to the point of "accepted wisdom". What the hell? I don't get it.
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I am sorry, but you do not need threading, especially on the server side. Apache and friends got along just fine with fork() before threading was ever invented, TYVM.
Seriously? "We don't have proper threads, so fork the process and start up a whole new Python interpreter" is the solution here?
I will admit that SOAP is one of the things that doesn't turn up in the Cheeseshop for much -- most Python devs don't want to touch it with a 50' pole.
I don't blame them, SOAP's awful.
But that doesn't change the fact that Python is nearly-useless for a lot of tasks.
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Secondly, the Ribbon was an improvement to Office from day one. Sure there were a few confusing bits, like where the Print and Save buttons bolted off too, but it was a significant improvement to what came before, and people loved it.
In the sense that 'it prioritized common/good functions over oddball/don't-use-this functions', yes. Putting the most-frequently-used/best-for-common-tasks functions 'up front' was the point of toolbars to begin with, yet the old Office toolbar system subverted this.
Microsoft, sadly, expected the Ribbon to just catch on by itself without supporting its userbase through the shock that they should have expected it to be.
What does that mean? What makes OOXML being a ISO standard "naughty"?
It's- duplicative -- ODF was already an ISO standard when OOXML was shoved through the committee
- a standard with an asterisk by it -- there were some very serious, yet unaddressed, allegations that Microsoft manipulated the voting and fast-track processes, as well as refused to allow sufficient time for the standards draftspeople to produce a proper standard text from the pile of internal documentation that was barfed into their lap. ('This feature should be implemented as in Excel 97' has no place in a standard; it'd be like the C++ standard saying 'do as GCC does in such-and-such a case'.)
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If it was such an improvement from day one, perhaps you'd like the ribbon to make an appearance in your IDE?
Sure, why not?
I'm not sure if would work as well in that environment, but I'll give it a go. Who knows.
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I don't get the point of having everybody in the same room if you're all looking at different screens. There's no practical difference between that and grabbing a headset and going online.
The original intent (from what I had read) was to have shared content on the TV and individual content on the pads.
I guess for like board/party games it makes sense?
Just like that. So if you were playing Clue, the game board would be on the screen, and your cards would be on your pad.
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Seriously? "We don't have proper threads, so fork the process and start up a whole new Python interpreter" is the solution here?
You can fork without starting up a new interpreter, even in Python. The child basically gets a 'clone' of the parent's interpreter through the forking process; the Python implementation doesn't have to do anything magical to make this happen, either.
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I spent a year or so doing Objective-C and have no idea what this is supposed to mean.
Sorry I don't know the terminology, because I didn't use it much until I trashed my Macs, but Obj-C had this visual layout programming tool thing that let you link the output of shit to the input of other shit, so you can tell your program stuff like, "if cursor is in text field enable Cut menu command" without writing any code. That's a dumb example, but you could hook it to like data objects and data objects to like DB tables and such, it was actually pretty powerful.
That was back in 10.2, I don't even know if XCode still even has that. But when I saw XAML had virtually the same functionality, I went "hmm!"
DataBinding, for one. You can bind any visual property to any data object property.
You can do that in WinForms.
Well, not anything-to-anything, but shit-that-matters-to-anything.
Takes you two seconds to do that across the entire application if it's designed properly.
And yet the learning curve is still longer than it takes me to lay-out my entire WinForms app, so I'm not using it.
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Right; but you can do that on any console
Tell that to game developers. Everything's online co-op only. Like, in order to play with someone who is 10 feet away, I should buy a second console, take it into the other room so I have another TV to hook it up to, and connect via the internet? Really? Fuck that. I've been playing Hyrule Warriors; when we split up, I have my own view to look at, but we can still collaborate on goals without having to wear headsets and fight with internet latency.
I've used a Wii-U and the gamepad controller.
Fair enough, you sounded like you hadn't. You've yet to elaborate on what you hated about it other than not grokking why it's there.
