There's a meta question if ever I saw one
-
It only counts as payment if it's something you want.
False, plenty of employers count lots of things you didn't want or ask for as part of your payment!
--cleared up sentence structure.
--why does this ninja not get flagged?!
----Seriously, how much ninja can i ninja?
-
False, plenty of employers count lots of things you didn't want or ask for as part of your payment!
--cleared up sentence structure.
--why does this ninja not get flagged?!Yeah, but this isn't an employment situation, unless he's the employee.
-
I think you can ninja for like five minutes or so
-
I think you can ninja for like five minutes or so
Not anymore.
Unless they changed it back again.
Again.
-
This post shall be used to intermittently test edits.
edit <1m no flag
edit ~1m flag
edit ~3m flag
edit ~5m flag
edit ~6m flag
-
Can anyone else see the details on my edits?
-
Not at present since it appears to have been removed from us as 'snooping'. I can see there have been edits, and but I don't get a pointer cursor nor does clicking on it do anything.
-
None of the details are visible.
Looks like if you edit something between 2 - 5 minutes, then it will flag it, but then you're free to edit forever after without anyone being able to click the flag to see what changed!Non-ninja editting my post to prevent anyone from ever seeing future edit histories here.
Suckers.
-
@PJH, or another mod, can you confirm what the ninja edit period is? I'm
assbuttuming that it is configurable.
-
@PJH pls
-
This is not true in my case...
-
@PJH, or another mod, can you confirm what the ninja edit period is? I'm assbuttuming that it is configurable.
It's now one minute. See Editing your posts.
@PJH pls
After discussion with @dhromed, this was removed.
-
After discussion with @dhromed, this was removed.
Why? Neither here nor in Edit history broken have I seen a reason stated. Some members of the community disagree, and as far as I have seen, no explanation been given, much less our input considered.
-
It started of with a(n internal) discussion on how staff could remove individual revisions of history if, for example, personal details were still visible to all, even if they had been removed from the initially displayed post.
Turns out it can't be done without hiding the whole post.
Hyperbole took over from there.
-
The main argument behind turning off public revision history is that someone can't edit out sensitive information. Oh shit I accidentally added these email addresses/phone numbers/etc. Now you're fucked.
This is not a fictional concern:
http://what.thedailywtf.com/t/registration-emails-still-dont-work/1139/21?u=dhromed
So in my book it weighs more heavily than the transparency argument, on which I said this in the staff discussion:
@PJH said:
I thought the public edit history was an interesting new feature
I thought it was interesting as well, in the light of transparency, but users are not public figures, so that ideal doesn't apply.Because really.
Looking back I'm not sure about the values of ninja-edit and normal-edit windows. Maybe increase them to 5 minutes and several days?
-
You just delete the whole post in those cases. Loss of public revision history for everyone is a scorched earth policy for a rare problem easily addressed with post deletions.
-
I don't see why public revision history is such a hugely important feature that turning it off can be called "scorched earth".
I think the problem of malicious edit-switcheroo is mostly imagined (I think that because I've never seen it), and the problem of unremovable information is a real one. See arantor's post. Complete post deletion does not address that. That's scorched earth.
-
I think the problem of malicious edit-switcheroo is mostly imagined
Except that now it's been highlighted around here as something that can be abused. And something that can be abused...
-
How does post deletion not address that, exactly?
-
It removes everything else, too.
-
True. So because of a rare situation of being at home to Mr. Cockup, we have to disable useful functionality all the time?
Which is why I recall saying that once you can purge individual edits in the history, you could turn it back on and job-done?
-
we have to disable useful functionality all the time?
Useful how?once you can purge individual edits in the history, you could turn it back on and job-done?
Yes.
-
Edit history is useful in all kinds of ways. Most usefully for bullshit prevention, like sniping and in some support communities (not that this is one) where users seem to have a habit of editing their posts when they're done so anyone who replied now looks weird.
Here is just a subset of those things.
-
From what I've noticed, deleted posts aren't fully removed for 24 hours, and (when public edit history was still active) I was able to see what the "deleted" post said.
-
Which is why a purge history entry option solves that problem.
-
I asked for an explanation, and you and @PJH explained it. I think the explanation is valid, and the action is justified. However, this. Very this:
@dhromed said:>Arantor said:
once you can purge individual edits in the history, you could turn it back on and job-done?Yes.
-
I don't see why public revision history is such a hugely important feature that turning it off can be called "scorched earth".
Complete post deletion does not address that. That's scorched earth.
The latter is what I took to be the scorched earth policy, not the former.
-
I don't make personal attacks. I just point out other people's innate inferiority to myself.
-
It only counts as payment if it's something you want.
That's not true, and never was. (I could argue more deeply on this, including a story about being paid a bonus with vouchers for use in stores that were nowhere close to where I lived, but it's a bit boring and the point is not as clear-cut with services hosted over the internet. Whatever. Being coherent enough to write it properly is a barrier to reading.)
What I find fascinating is how vociferous some people are on this whole topic. Something about DC really riles them. My perspective is that it's much better than it was (despite needing to go further) and it's better than the festering scorpion pit that was the old forums. The single biggest issue right now is that the need for registration functions as a barrier to pseudonymous contributions, and that's not easy for anyone to fix (as it isn't easy to identify what “fix” even means in that case, as there's all sorts of tricky forces pulling in various ways there).
Filed under: I'm mostly sticking with professional contributions in re @codinghorror and the other DC devs (well, that or bad jokes) as they're trying to fix things, which counts for much kudos in my book
-
From what I've noticed, deleted posts aren't fully removed for 24 hours, and (when public edit history was still active) I was able to see what the "deleted" post said.
That only happens for self-deletion. Moderator deletion is instant.
-
The latter is what I took to be the scorched earth policy, not the former.
I agree. @codinghorror called the former scorched earth.
-
Be sure to read through:
The argument BBS made when disabling public edits was that it started feeling like a police state, where random people are monitoring you.
I get the argument. Personally, I feel its more a trust level thing, at level 3 or 4 when you start picking up some moderation abilities like retitling topics and so on you should be allowed to view history.
That said the public edit history thing only pops up really rarely, most communities seem not to care.
-
I don't make personal attacks. I just point out other people's innate inferiority to myself.
Why not both‽
-
The argument BBS made when disabling public edits was that it started feeling like a police state, where random people are monitoring you.
I will now post on a public forum. Dear god, you mean anyone can read this‽
Personally, I feel its more a trust level thing, at level 3 or 4 when you start picking up some moderation abilities like retitling topics and so on you should be allowed to view history.
Seems like it should be more like level 2. Assuming mods can nuke bits of history as appropriate.
-
Assuming mods can nuke bits of history as appropriate.
.. .and we've come full circle....
No. Selective deletion isn't an option.
-
No. Selective deletion isn't an option.
I know it isn't currently. But I thought I'd seen @sam talking about that as a candidate for future development.
-
I will now post on a public forum. Dear god, you mean anyone can read this‽
Wow, you've used sarcasm markup! Well done, Sir!Filed under: not that I wouldn't have noticed if you had not
-
sarcasm markup
I discovered how to use the compose key in KDE a few weeks ago, and it's still novel enough that it's kind of fun to see weird charactérs cöme out of my keyboard.
-
I will now post on a public forum. Dear god, you mean anyone can read this‽
Taking the amount of "remove from search results" requests google is getting right now, one cannot help but get the impression that it indeed does surprise a lot of people that what they have said publicly might be publicly available.
-
Yes, nuke revision from orbit, as an admin function will eventually happen.
-
Just to clarify something from the BoingBoing piece, one of the commentators says he's never heard of a 'straight-up forum doing it'... except for the fact that vBulletin and SMF had plugins years ago for it (and it might have become a core function in vB at some point, there was certainly a throw-the-kitchen-sink-in attitude at one time), XenForo has it as a core function, but visibility is moderator-only (and something that has been requested to be changed on multiple occasions)
-
The argument BBS made when disabling public edits was that it started feeling like a police state, where random people are monitoring you.
I generally don't have the problem with that, but I see where they're coming from - especially with deleted posts being viewable for 24 hours in their entirety.
If I delete a post, it means I fucked up. Perhaps I posted something offensive, or unfunny, and on the second thought want to withdraw that. And when I see a "post has been deleted" notice, I instinctively used to click the edit history just to see how much the person who wrote it fucked up.
But I wouldn't want this to be held against me.
-
This I understand, but at the same time the internet is a permanent archive. If you're not prepared to say it in public, you shouldn't really be putting it on a public forum.
-
This I understand, but at the same time the internet is a permanent archive. If you're not prepared to say it in public, you shouldn't really be putting it on a public forum.
I don't really mean things I wouldn't be "prepared to say in public". More like a lame joke that I read the second time and found unfunny, so I'd prefer to just drop it. Especially on a forum in which it would evolve into a hundred-post flamewar.
-
Then read twice before pressing the post button?
-
Especially on a forum in which it would evolve into a hundred-post flamewar.
This seems like the place to keep such a comment.
-
Then read twice before pressing the post button?
I do type faster than I think, and sometimes click "reply" faster than I think too.
How about differentiating between replied-to and not-replied-to posts? The ones without replies can be edited and deleted freely, but once someone takes notice, it's a public matter and has a viewable edit log.
It's pretty much halfway-like-that with quoting, but that raises another matter of quote manipulation and stuff.
-
I dunno. I sort of think this is getting into the territory of making it more complex than it needs to be.
-
It mitigates the "police state" accusation by giving you a decent window of time in which you can correct typos, fuckups, etc. while also not letting you screw with people by changing the post in the middle of a discussion and going all Shaggy on them.
Dunno. Might be worth it.
-
That's what the ninja editing is for. And that seems like a reasonable option too.