How old is your machine?
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@Lorne Kates said:
Take a webform as an example. It has all be benefits of a GUI: layout that makes reading labels easy, input elements aligned, on-screen prompts (tool tips, required field highlighting, etc)...., enter their data, then use TAB to go to the next one. And the next. And the next.
And when the user interacts in such a way (keytrokes with tabs do move between fields) they are NOT "using" the GUI (even if the application supports full GUI operations), not is it CLI. Consider that such capabilities have been around since the 1960's [1963 is the earliest confirmed reference I can find] and even on the micro-computer date back to CP/M.
The names for this type of interface vary greatly, since it originaed among so many paths. In the early days they were often referred to simply as Screen Based Interfaces (largely because preious versions were on pur hard copy terminals).
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@Lorne Kates said:
Not as often as I used to now that my laptop's Win7, but yes, lots. Windows XP was a complete retard with wifi.
No it wasn't. Neither was Windows 2000, for the record.
Let me guess: you installed a wifi card that had a idiotic "management app" from the wifi card manufacturer, and you thought the "management app" had to run for the card to run, not realizing that XP had 100% finished and bug-free wifi support and that "management app" actually caused all the issues you were seeing. Then since you're a moron, you blame Microsoft for the problem. Am I close to the bullseye?
@Lorne Kates said:
I don't, but this is probably the main source of conflict between GUI vs CLI people. CLI assume that GUI people are afraid of the keyboard and can only use a stupid mouse. GUI people assume that CLI people are afraid of anything that isn't ASCII or a screen with more than two colors.
Possibly true.
I think the biggest problem is that CLI people don't understand what 99% of other people use computers for. Because the tasks the vast, vast, vast majority of people use their computers for things that can literally not be done on a CLI. At all.
That's why CPUWizard is ignoring my thrown gauntlet on the video editing front. Also because he is a coward. Buk-buk-buk-bukawk!
@Lorne Kates said:
There are, of course, tons of other pros and cons for both. CLI may be faster in some cases, but you have to memorize archaic switches with almost no useful prompts or feedback from the system (short of wasting time with MAN pages or /?).
I admit there are tasks a CLI is faster at, but you'll find that:
1) They're tasks that are done extraordinarily rarely.
2) The learning curve to figure out how to do them quickly on a CLI is not much or any better than on a GUI (you could write a VBScript to do the "add 500 users to a file server" task as easily as a Bash script for example. Assuming it's worthwhile to write that script at all, which it isn't.)
3) CLI people never count the sheet amount of time it took them to learn that shitty undiscoverable system in the first place, nor do they consider the additional risks of using a CLI over a GUI (no recycling bin, no undo command)The REAL tragedy here is that I fully 100% believe you can make a usable, learnable, discoverable CLI interface. I believe it's possible. But it'll never happen because of step 3 above-- people who spent hundreds of hours learning their shitty-ass Bash aren't going to invest in learning something new. Because it'll be different. And more than anybody else in IT, THOSE are the people who hate and fear change.
@Lorne Kates said:
It's almost like they're two similar but different methods of input, each with their own pros and cons that vary wildly based on the quality of the tool, and the intended task of the tool. Weird.
Yes, and horse-drawn carriages are still nice for casual trips in the park or sightseeing, but we don't use them to do actual fucking work. If the transportation world worked like the IT world, you'd see a third of the cars on the road were horse-drawn, full of delusional people inside yelling, "this is so much faster! This is so much better! You should totally learn this!"
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@blakeyrat said:
No it wasn't. Neither was Windows 2000, for the record.
Let me guess: you installed a wifi card that had a idiotic "management app" from the wifi card manufacturer, and you thought the "management app" had to run for the card to run, not realizing that XP had 100% finished and bug-free wifi support and that "management app" actually caused all the issues you were seeing. Then since you're a moron, you blame Microsoft for the problem. Am I close to the bullseye?
Exactly right. Except for all the parts you got wrong. Which is everything. The first thing I did was delete the manufacture's management app, just like I do for every piece of hardware I get. Nope, that's entirely Windows there. And it isn't really the GUI, it's was the drivers themselves. Go into Hibernate. Come back out. Wifi snaps itself in half and fucks itself with its own cock. A quick ipconfig /refresh fixes things. Or hunting down the wifi icon (that may or may not show due to not being connected), hope that it actually scanned the current networks to double click and reconnect (or double click to forget the network-- it seemed random). If that didn't work, find the icon again, right click, select "Fix" or whatever the option was-- wait three minutes for it to cycle through some tests.
One of which is ipconfig /renew
Now as painful as the Windows network card management GUI is, it's STILL easier than doing it CLI. At least on Linux ifconfig uses interface aliases, like eth0. I can easily set an IP address ifconfig eth0 192.168.0.1, whatever. On cmd.exe? Forget it. "ipconfig Ethernet Connection 1 Intel (tm) Fast Ethernet COnnection... umm. what do I type now?"
@blakeyrat said:
That's why CPUWizard is ignoring my thrown gauntlet on the video editing front.
I can see some merit to a CLI, but only for batch pre-processing. A batch file that says "Grab everything on this SD card that in the AVCHD folder and run it through Handbrake to convert it to Preset Vimeo HD". But actual non-linear editing? Fuck that noise.
* Note: I've come to realize that nearly ever good argued for use of CLI ends with "and then put it in a batch file/script it". So the only use for CLI is when the CLI is too difficult to actually use and you need to automate it.
@blakeyrat said:
If the transportation world worked like the IT world, you'd see a third of the cars on the road were horse-drawn, full of delusional people inside yelling, "this is so much faster! This is so much better! You should totally learn this!"
It is like that. That's why you can still buy cars with manual transmissions.
Which reminds me of that car commercial a few years ago starring Jason Stathem-- I think it was called The Transporter. His #1 character trait is that he is an absolute expert fanatic of cars. He's the best driver, only drives the best, needs absolute control.
So they have him driving an automatic car with paddle-shifts. Which is basically manual transmission for pussies who can't actually learn to drive a stick, but like to pretend they can. They're significantly worse than both stick and auto transmission. But they're a fad to be sold to people with too much money, so his character used them. And thye focused on them. Noticeably. Multiple times. Every fucking time he shifts gears, it's a jump-zoom to him hands on the wheel clicking those stupid things.
It was just unbelievably out of place. I get that it was product placement, but it was unsubtle and contrary to the character. It'd be like a movie about someone who is a master listener, who solves crimes no one else can by listening to stuff, who demands the absolute best in sound reproduction-- to play back his crime scene footage on a BOSE stereo, with a MONSTER cable connected to his SKULLCANDY earphones (ZOOM ON THE PRODUCTS!)
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Sorry then you had a shite Wifi card because my mother uses a Windows XP laptop provided by the local Social Services that wakes up and connects every fucking time.
BTW Your argument about the Jason Stathem advert is fucking stupid ... it would be equivalent to almost comes down to saying "I am too hardcore to use an IDE", we can all use a text editor but at the end of the day when I want to get something done quicker and with less mistakes you are doing to use an IDE.
Also why don't we go further and make Stathem drive a 1.0 litre Ford Fiesta in the film instead of the BMW (or whatever it is) because if he was that much of a man he would be still be able to do it without the horsepower.
Using better kit because you care about how well it works isn't stupid, it means that you understand the limitations of the environment and seek a better solution because you are intelligent to realise there must be a better way. BTW Stathem's character in transporter only makes do when he has to ... there is a scene in the first film where he goes to boat that has a fuck load of guns because he rather use the guns than fight with his fists.
Also if we really want to take this the extreme, why didn't he ditch the fucking car and run all the way while carrying the fit asian lady?
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@lucas said:
Sorry then you had a shite Wifi card because my mother uses a Windows XP laptop provided by the local Social Services that wakes up and connects every fucking time.
That's for your ancecdote! Does your mother also take her laptop to other wifi points, like I mentioned in both my posts? I know she doesn't, because YOUR MOMMA JOKE.
@lucas said:There is nothing wrong with Semi-Automatic one of the fastest accelerating cars have paddle like shift. This maybe a surprised to you because it is called engineering. Even bicycles these days are starting to have electronic shifting (yes bicycles not motorbikes) and it is used by professional road cyclist.
Calling semi-auto tranmission if for pussies is basically like me bragging about how I ride a fixed gear bicyles to people that don't give a shit about bicycles. It proves nothing and you look like a cock.
You know what else makes you a cock? Editing your post after the emails go out.
Paddle-shifters make you a pussycock. You admit that manual shifting is too hard, but you want to pretend you make your car go vroomvroom, so you have a computer do it for your. Automatically. But it isn't an automatic! Either you drive manual, or you admit manual transmission is a buggy, distracting, archaic concept and go full auto. Anything in between makes a pussy who wants to pretend to do one without doing the other.
This is like calling yourself a hunter by going on a safari, but you rent the gun, have a jungle-sherpa shoot the endangered giraffes for you, all while your butler makes you your tea. Put you pour your own fucking tea, because no one does anything FOR YOU!
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@Lorne Kates said:
That's for your ancecdote! Does your mother also take her laptop to other wifi points, like I mentioned in both my posts? I know she doesn't, because YOUR MOMMA JOKE.
If that is the best you can do it isn't really good enough.
Wifi has been working fine on Windows for quite a while, I just gave an example of it. If the golden arches can give explanations on their bloody menu of how to connect to the WiFi, it can't be that difficult.
@Lorne Kates said:You know what else makes you a cock? Editing your post after the emails go out.
Paddle-shifters make you a pussycock. You admit that manual shifting is too hard, but you want to pretend you make your car go vroomvroom, so you have a computer do it for your. Automatically. But it isn't an automatic! Either you drive manual, or you admit manual transmission is a buggy, distracting, archaic concept and go full auto. Anything in between makes a pussy who wants to pretend to do one without doing the other.
This is like calling yourself a hunter by going on a safari, but you rent the gun, have a jungle-sherpa shoot the endangered giraffes for you, all while your butler makes you your tea. Put you pour your own fucking tea, because no one does anything FOR YOU!
Yeah I modified my post, because I wanted to say it better. Saying I am a pussy because I came up with a better way of saying it is weak ... go fuck yourself ... guess how many shits I give? ... it is zero.
Manual shifting is pretty easy I didn't admit anything, it is fucking trivial in fact ... most people in the UK learn to drive this way.
By your argument we would still be double de-clutching because synchromesh gearbox is for pussies. Look you can make silly analogies that don't make a lot of sense, but having better tools when you are already good at something makes you better than the next guy which has worse equipment ... why don't you tell Formula 1 to go back to not using Aero-dynamics and telementary systems and see what sort of response you get.
BTW have to look at my bloody antique bicycle I had to feel the gear go into place while pedalling softly (this is similar to double de-clutching), the bicycle world went past this 30 years ago in the 80s. I can't change gears while standing up sprinting which would be major disadvantage if I was to race today.
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@Lorne Kates said:
MOST of the Windows GUI are good. I'd hazard that nearly none in any flavor of Linux are usable in a very self-fulfilling way.
Some Linux GUIs are actually pretty usable. The problem that comes up is inevitably the GUI won't do everything you need it to, or it will just be flat-out broke, so you have to go back to CLI. For example, on Ubuntu there's a tool that lets you manage wifi and other network connections. Pretty simple to use, not a bad interface. However, it would frequently just break for me. I'd put the machine into suspend-to-ram mode and when it resumed, it couldn't connect to shit. No amount of poking or prodding would fix it, so I eventually had to reboot.
So obviously pretty fucking annoying. Especially when you're coming into a meeting and it's like "Oh, my laptop isn't connecting to wifi.. give me a minute while I reboot." And this didn't just happen with suspend, sometimes it would happen when switching networks or just while connected to one network. So finally I broke down and just went back to managing wifi and networking via the CLI. Lame, right? But it works reliably and I haven't had a problem with it since.
This is the kind of thing that happens all the time. Run into a problem with a Linux GUI and Google for a solution and the first several results will be forums where the replies all boil down to "Use this CLI program to do that". So the basic attitude in Linux is that the GUI is a special feature and isn't expected to work correctly all the time. And inevitably you'll run into some jackasses who will say something to the effect of "The GUI is just there to make n00bs from Windoze or Mac more comfortable while they switch. It's not a replacement for the CLI and you shouldn't be using it if you know how to use the CLI." Those are the people you want to punch.
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@lucas said:
Manual shifting is pretty easy I didn't admit anything, it is fucking trivial in fact
Sure it's easy, but it's also annoying. Try taking off from stopped on a 45 degree grade with someone 6 inches behind your bumper. Now sometimes, under very specific conditions like driving on winding highway roads through nature, manual shifting can be fun, but it's rare.
Manumatics are baffling to me. Why do they exist? You've already admitted that a clutch is not for you, but you still like to have to switch gears? It's not even fun, it's just tedious.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@lucas said:
Manual shifting is pretty easy I didn't admit anything, it is fucking trivial in fact
Sure it's easy, but it's also annoying. Try taking off from stopped on a 45 degree grade with someone 6 inches behind your bumper. Now sometimes, under very specific conditions like driving on winding highway roads through nature, manual shifting can be fun, but it's rare.
People who praise manual shifting never had to drive for hours in daily chaotic traffic. You end up with bursitis.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Sure it's easy, but it's also annoying. Try taking off from stopped on a 45 degree grade with someone 6 inches behind your bumper. Now sometimes, under very specific conditions like driving on winding highway roads through nature, manual shifting can be fun, but it's rare.
In the UK you fail you test on a hill start if you roll backwards. Also there are separate driving licenses for those that pass in an automatic.
BTW I do live next to mountains with weird windy roads.
@morbiuswilters said:
Manumatics are baffling to me. Why do they exist? You've already admitted that a clutch is not for you, but you still like to have to switch gears? It's not even fun, it's just tedious.
I dunno when I admitted that a clutch isn't for me, I merely said that saying it was some sort of measure of manliness was ridiculous and semi-automatic gears are kinda cool the odd time I am in a sports car. Automatics are rare here and tbh, pushing my foot a few inches forward and moving my arm is hardly anything to get bothered about.
The transition from being seated on the right to the left was far more difficult. It isn't even a discussion over here because quite frankly it is expected that you know how a clutch works.
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@Ronald said:
People who praise manual shifting never had to drive for hours in daily chaotic traffic. You end up with bursitis.
That is all you ever do in the UK and 99 cars out of 100 are manual.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Sure it's easy, but it's also annoying. Try taking off from stopped on a 45 degree grade with someone 6 inches behind your bumper. Now sometimes, under very specific conditions like driving on winding highway roads through nature, manual shifting can be fun, but it's rare.
I do it all the time. It's not hard once you realize the hand brake is your friend. That said, most manuals these days come with a little button marked 'Auto Hold' or similar. It uses the traction control system to keep the car from rolling back no matter what you do, so long as you're not stupid enough to mistake reverse for first.
@morbiuswilters said:
Manumatics are baffling to me. Why do they exist? You've already admitted that a clutch is not for you, but you still like to have to switch gears? It's not even fun, it's just tedious.
They're not quite fully manual. Sure, you have the flappy paddles and the sequential gearshift lever, but somewhere on that lever is a setting marked 'Drive' that makes it pretty indistinguishable from an automatic. You can easy mode through traffic on your commute and still have sequential mode for weekend twisties.
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@blakeyrat said:
Let me guess:
No. You're being a hypocrite if you first complain that other people read assumptions (AKA "making shit up") in what they write, then go on yourself to do it to others.
Not that this will surprise others of course.
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@lucas said:
In the UK you fail you test on a hill start if you roll backwards.
Ok. Does that make any less irritating?
@lucas said:
semi-automatic gears are kinda cool the odd time I am in a sports car.
I don't believe you.
@lucas said:
It isn't even a discussion over here because quite frankly it is expected that you know how a clutch works.
Right, you cars suffer from technological paralysis.
This is a place where I admire the Germans. It's like "Fuck you, no manual available in this model. Go buy a horse and buggy if you want to live some bizarre old-timey fantasy."
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@NoOneImportant said:
It's not hard once you realize the hand brake is your friend.
I didn't say it was hard, I said it was annoying. (Do you people not read??) How is having to use the goddamn handbrake as part of normal driving not annoying?
@NoOneImportant said:
That said, most manuals these days come with a little button marked 'Auto Hold' or similar. It uses the traction control system to keep the car from rolling back no matter what you do...
So basically you're inventing convoluted, automatic braking systems instead of using real transmissions. That makes so much sense.
@NoOneImportant said:
They're not quite fully manual. Sure, you have the flappy paddles and the sequential gearshift lever, but somewhere on that lever is a setting marked 'Drive' that makes it pretty indistinguishable from an automatic.
I know this.
@NoOneImportant said:
You can easy mode through traffic on your commute and still have sequential mode for weekend twisties.
That's not fun, though. The fun part of driving a manual under the right circumstances is that you are much more in-touch with the working of the automobile, in particular the clutch and throttle. The gearbox is actually kind of the boring part. You've taken out the one part that might be interesting and just left me with an automatic where I'm playing the role of inefficient transmission computer. Lame.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@NoOneImportant said:
When it becomes second nature so you don't actually notice it.It's not hard once you realize the hand brake is your friend.
I didn't say it was hard, I said it was annoying. (Do you people not read??) How is having to use the goddamn handbrake as part of normal driving not annoying?
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@morbiuswilters said:
Ok. Does that make any less irritating?
Nobody finds it irritating, because it is a non-issue to most people
@morbiuswilters said:
I don't believe you.
Believe what you like.
@morbiuswilters said:
Right, you cars suffer from technological paralysis.
This is a place where I admire the Germans. It's like "Fuck you, no manual available in this model. Go buy a horse and buggy if you want to live some bizarre old-timey fantasy."
The UK doesn't make any of its own cars any-more, the auto mobile industry died in our country years ago. Blame the other countries.
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@morbiuswilters said:
@lucas said:
Manual shifting is pretty easy I didn't admit anything, it is fucking trivial in fact
Sure it's easy, but it's also annoying. Try taking off from stopped on a 45 degree grade with someone 6 inches behind your bumper. Now sometimes, under very specific conditions like driving on winding highway roads through nature, manual shifting can be fun, but it's rare.Is it easy, though? Think of the mental processes and physical coordination of getting up to speed a manual transmission car (in North America)
1) Dis-engage clutch with left foot.
2) Use right arm and hand to find and engage first gear.
3) Slowly engate clutch to avoid lurching while slightly feathering gas pedal. You need to get that sweet spot between stalling the engine and chirping the tires.
4) Fully engage clutch
5) Determine via traffic and road conditions when to upshift
6) Fully dis-engage clutch slightly ahead of letting off gas pedal. You don't want to suddenly engine brake or overrev the engine.
7) Use right arm and hand to move from first gear and engage to second.
8) Match engine speed to required transmission/wheel speed to avoid bucking
9) Engage clutch
10) Repeat 5-9 as needed.
That all can be fairly daunting. Each gear needs its own matching engine speed vs wheel speed. Add in downshifting and hills and it's no wonder people choose the easy way out. (even though for most people it does become second nature, even muscle-memorized, after only a few weeks.)
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@lucas said:
@Ronald said:
People who praise manual shifting never had to drive for hours in daily chaotic traffic. You end up with bursitis.
That is all you ever do in the UK and 99 cars out of 100 are manual.
All cars ever used to be manual. Now there are fewer. Doesn't seem to be a popular choice, though. From a non-driver's perspective, I find it a little odd that automatics are still a minority of about 15%.
I don't have the inclination to find data and see if transmission type is clearly growing one way or another, or that the division is stable. I need to farm some credits and resources for a Latron, see.
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@Nexzus said:
That all can be fairly daunting. Each gear needs its own matching engine speed vs wheel speed.
Not since Syncromesh gearing have you had to worry about double de-clutching.
- I am going a little too fast for this gear.
- Push clutch down and ease off accelerator.
- Change to next gear.
- Reverse Step two.
If you are massively off like changing from 5th to 2nd you can cause problems but tbh if you are retarded enought to do that you wouldn't have passed the test anyway.
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@lucas said:
@Nexzus said:
That all can be fairly daunting. Each gear needs its own matching engine speed vs wheel speed.
Not since Syncromesh gearing have you had to worry about double de-clutching.
- I am going a little too fast for this gear.
- Push clutch down and ease off accelerator.
- Change to next gear.
- Reverse Step two.
If you are massively off like changing from 5th to 2nd you can cause problems but tbh if you are retarded enought to do that you wouldn't have passed the test anyway.
We'll yeah, but if you don't want your car to buck like a bronco (or wear out your clutch in 6 months), you should be within +- 300 RPM of the target engine speed for that current gear/vehicle speed.
On my car (a Ford Mustang V8), in first gear I can hit 50km/h at 4000 RPM. At that speed, I know I need to have second engaged by 2800 RPM if I want a smooth shift. I'f I'm being lazy (or if conditions dictate) and shift from first gear at 35km/h at 3000 RPM, I know I need to hit second at 2000 RPM.
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@PJH said:
@blakeyrat said:
Let me guess:
No. You're being a hypocrite if you first complain that other people read assumptions (AKA "making shit up") in what they write, then go on yourself to do it to others.
Not that this will surprise others of course.Look. If your shit is broken, the solution isn't "use the CLI!" the solution is "fix your shit!"
And I'm a hypocrite all the fucking time, I've never denied that. So. Good on you I guess.
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@Nexzus said:
On my car (a Ford Mustang V8), in first gear I can hit 50km/h at 4000 RPM. At that speed, I know I need to have second engaged by 2800 RPM if I want a smooth shift. I'f I'm being lazy (or if conditions dictate) and shift from first gear at 35km/h at 3000 RPM, I know I need to hit second at 2000 RPM.
I'm somewhat amazed you actually look at your tachometer. I drove manuals for years (1986 Mitsubishi Cordia-L, I loved that car, and a crappy Dodge Neon) and I don't think I ever once looked at the tach. Then I bought a automatic because commuting to Redmond from here in a manual is basically foot-torture and at the time paddle-shifters were too expensive for me to afford.
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@PJH said:
@blakeyrat said:
@blakeyrat said:Let me guess:
you first complain that other people read assumptions (AKA "making shit up") in what they write, .There's no difference between "inferring" something unspoken and making shit up.
Holy Shit!! That sounds like something that belongs in a Spectate Swamp thread.
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@lucas said:
Nobody finds it irritating, because it is a non-issue to most people
Sure, people get used to bad interfaces, just like a lot of people are really used to CLIs. At least I can recognize it's bad.
@lucas said:
The UK doesn't make any of its own cars any-more, the auto mobile industry died in our country years ago. Blame the other countries.
Yeah, but they're selling what you will buy. That's how markets work. I admire any company that refuses to bend over backwards to satisfy some backwards, antiquated demands.
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@dhromed said:
automatics are still a minority of about 15%.
In Europe, yes. In the U.S. however, it appears that automatics are more than 90%.
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@blakeyrat said:
I bought a automatic because commuting to Redmond from here in a manual is basically foot-torture
Agreed; driving in stop-and-go traffic is one thing I don't miss about no longer driving a manual.I don't know where "here" is, but Redmond is less than 20 miles from here.
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@Nexzus said:
We'll yeah, but if you don't want your car to buck like a bronco (or wear out your clutch in 6 months), you should be within +- 300 RPM of the target engine speed for that current gear/vehicle speed.
It also depends on the engine displacement . A 4-cyl will generally match transmission speed more easily because there's less mass to get moving. A large engine will causing the bucking and will burn up the clutch more readily.
Also, I don't think lucas entirely understands how synchronized transmissions work--the synch isn't between engine and transmission, but between the input and output transmission shafts, to get the gears up to the same speed as the output shaft. On any larger-displacement engine, you still have to use the throttle and foot clutch to match the engine speed to the transmission.
Side note: a lot of large trucks don't use synchronized transmissions, because they wear out too quickly when dealing with the large, heavy components. However, I recall that most standard transmission military trucks are synchronized, because it makes it easier for anybody to pick it up and drive it without having to learn double-clutching.
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@El_Heffe said:
@dhromed said:
automatics are still a minority of about 15%.
In Europe, yes. In the U.S. however, it appears that automatics are more than 90%.This is clearly because of Americans' superior intelligence and technical skills.
I find it interesting that nobody has yet mentioned one of the only positives of a manual: doing maintenance on your own is much, much easier. Anybody who's ever had to fix an automatic transmission on their own would tell you that they're difficult to diagnose and significantly more complicated. The only time I ever wished I had a manual was when I was trying to fix an old automatic (a fully-hydraulic one, no less). Shit, you can rebuild a manual transmission in an afternoon. Try doing that with an automatic..
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@HardwareGeek said:
@blakeyrat said:
I bought a automatic because commuting to Redmond from here in a manual is basically foot-torture
Agreed; driving in stop-and-go traffic is one thing I don't miss about no longer driving a manual.I don't know where "here" is, but Redmond is less than 20 miles from here.
I can't tell you where I live in enough detail to program the guidance system of a Cold War-era R-36M2 Voevoda silo-launched 2-stage MIRV ICBM. You understand.
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@HardwareGeek said:
@blakeyrat said:
I bought a automatic because commuting to Redmond from here in a manual is basically foot-torture
Agreed; driving in stop-and-go traffic is one thing I don't miss about no longer driving a manual.I don't know where "here" is, but Redmond is less than 20 miles from here.
Hah, for me, "here" is Redmond. My car is an automatic with a sequential-shift "manual" mode (on the selector lever, not paddles). I never use the "manual" mode, and I certainly have no desire to use a fully-manual transmission. Why bother with the extra work (however minimal) when I could just not?
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@NoOneImportant said:
@morbiuswilters said:
Manumatics are baffling to me. Why do they exist? You've already admitted that a clutch is not for you, but you still like to have to switch gears? It's not even fun, it's just tedious.
They're not quite fully manual. Sure, you have the flappy paddles and the sequential gearshift lever, but somewhere on that lever is a setting marked 'Drive' that makes it pretty indistinguishable from an automatic. You can easy mode through traffic on your commute and still have sequential mode for weekend twisties.
There are also a few cases where the ability to pick a certain "gear" is useful. Say you're going into a curve at ~60 MPH, but you want to power through the turn without losing momentum and without accelerating too much. At that speed, in my car, that's going to be 6th gear if my foot is just light enough on the pedal to maintain velocity. If I push down, the shifting algorithm will downshift into 3rd, 4th or 5th, typically a function of how far down the pedal is being pushed, and as you might imagine, that can be hard to get just right. 3rd gear will be a little too much power, and 5th too wimpy. The computer can't read my intentions two seconds out (nor can it predict how sharply I want to take the turn... or can it?), but if I tell it I want 4th gear, I don't have to worry about unexpected shifts while in turns.
@morbiuswilters said:
I find it interesting that nobody has yet mentioned one of the only positives of a manual: doing maintenance on your own is much, much easier. Anybody who's ever had to fix an automatic transmission on their own would tell you that they're difficult to diagnose and significantly more complicated. The only time I ever wished I had a manual was when I was trying to fix an old automatic (a fully-hydraulic one, no less). Shit, you can rebuild a manual transmission in an afternoon. Try doing that with an automatic..
When I got my car the salesman said, "The transmission's sealed, good for 200k miles, they don't really want you touching it." Time will tell how correct he was.
There's also the often-mentioned advantages of less power loss and better gas mileage, but if you trust the factory flywheel HP numbers for the manual/auto engines they put in my car (426hp vs. 400) and the dyno numbers (~350rwhp vs. 320), the difference in power loss is what, 18% vs. 20%? I see a lot of automatics with equal MPG numbers to manuals these days. It's diffcult to understand why some people still clutch to such archaic technology.
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@blakeyrat said:
I can't tell you where I live in enough detail to program the guidance system of a Cold War-era R-36M2 Voevoda silo-launched 2-stage MIRV ICBM. You understand.
Of course, but if I were going to do something like that, I'd simply aim it at 47°38'N, 122°07'W; even with a fairly low-yield warhead, that would be more than accurate enough. If it happened to get you, too, that'd just be icing on the cake. (Um, no, that would be Ben L., or MySQL. Anyway...) But I wouldn't do that; it's much to close to me, and there's too high a probability the wind would blow the fallout in my direction.
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@HardwareGeek said:
I'd simply aim it at 47°38'N, 122°07'W;
Keep it under 3 megatons and we're cool.
It'd be pretty fun to turn the refugees away, come to think of it.
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@blakeyrat said:
@HardwareGeek said:
I'd simply aim it at 47°38'N, 122°07'W;
Keep it under 3 megatons and we're cool.
[url="http://www.carloslabs.com/projects/200712B/GroundZero.html"]HELPFUL![/url]
(Personally I like to select "Asteroid Impact" and figure out how far away I can place Ground Zero and still shake windows in Newfoundland)
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@Lorne Kates said:
@blakeyrat said:
@HardwareGeek said:
I'd simply aim it at 47°38'N, 122°07'W;
Keep it under 3 megatons and we're cool.
(Personally I like to select "Asteroid Impact" and figure out how far away I can place Ground Zero and still shake windows in Newfoundland)
Keep it under 1 megaton or you'll delay Half-Life 3 indefinitely.
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@El_Heffe said:
In the U.S. however, it appears that automatics are more than 90%.
That's mainly because burning as much fuel as quickly as possible is a US national sport.
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@Ben L. said:
@Lorne Kates said:
So? Doesn't bother me; I don't play Half-Life.@blakeyrat said:
@HardwareGeek said:
I'd simply aim it at 47°38'N, 122°07'W;
Keep it under 3 megatons and we're cool.
(Personally I like to select "Asteroid Impact" and figure out how far away I can place Ground Zero and still shake windows in Newfoundland)
Keep it under 1 megaton or you'll delay Half-Life 3 indefinitely.
GroundZero doesn't have a choice for 3MT, but based in the 1.4MT damage, 3MT looks about right for surviving the thermal damage. However, the fallout is still a problem. Gotta choose a day with the winds in the right direction.
The trouble with "Asteriod Impact" is that there is no choice of the asteroid size. What about meteorites? Inquiring minds want to know.
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@morbiuswilters said:
nobody has yet mentioned one of the only positives of a manual: doing maintenance on your own is much, much easier.
As is roll-starting after you've been a dickhead and parked with your lights on, or just because you felt like turning the engine off and coasting down that fabulous hill in neutral.
Driving a manual is just more fun, because it feels like exactly what it is: exercising a physical skill.
I've driven hundreds of twelve hour shifts in assorted taxis, all of them automatic. I own and commute in a manual. I have no desire at all to own an auto. They're just dull.
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@HardwareGeek said:
Filed under: I'm surprised nobody has yet come to the defense of the target.
Why do you want to nuke Nintendo of America?
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@electronerd said:
Why do you want to nuke Nintendo of America?
Your navigation is off by about 0°1' in both latitude and longitude. Actually, I just truncated the numbers; 47°38'23"N, 122°07'42"W is closer, but 1200m is plenty close enough for even a device of only a few kT.
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@HardwareGeek said:
@electronerd said:
Why do you want to nuke Nintendo of America?
Your navigation is off by about 0°1' in both latitude and longitude. Actually, I just truncated the numbers; 47°38'23"N, 122°07'42"W is closer, but 1200m is plenty close enough for even a device of only a few kT.Why do you want to nuke Pedro's El taco grande food truck? Do you also think they're too cheap with napkins?
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@HardwareGeek said:
@electronerd said:
Why do you want to nuke Nintendo of America?
Your navigation is off by about 0°1' in both latitude and longitude. Actually, I just truncated the numbers; 47°38'23"N, 122°07'42"W is closer, but 1200m is plenty close enough for even a device of only a few kT.Actually the provided coordinates show up on the opposite side of Microsoft from Nintendo. I was just trying to humorously "miss seeing" the giant Microsoft campus in favor of the three little Nintendo buildings.
EDIT: Also, please refrain from nuking me. Thx.
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@flabdablet said:
@El_Heffe said:
In the U.S. however, it appears that automatics are more than 90%.
That's mainly because burning as much fuel as quickly as possible is a US national sport.
Wow. Even automobile fans on this forum have time-pods. How's life back there in 1985?
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@blakeyrat said:
Then I bought a automatic because commuting to Redmond from here in a manual is basically foot-torture and at the time paddle-shifters were too expensive for me to afford.
You were playing the speed up, stop, rinse, repeat game weren't you? I did a 25 mile I-5 slog for five years in a manual to get to West Seattle; Use lots of neutral and go slower than the car in front of you. You stop less.
As a side note, the best thing I ever did to cut my morning commute was to drive something old and unusual. Saved me an easy twenty minutes most mornings because I could just zip up the line of waiting cars at the end of the 5 south express with my blinker on and someone would always slow down to gawk at me and let me in. Same thing coming home.
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@blakeyrat said:
@flabdablet said:
@El_Heffe said:
In the U.S. however, it appears that automatics are more than 90%.
That's mainly because burning as much fuel as quickly as possible is a US national sport.
Wow. Even automobile fans on this forum have time-pods. How's life back there in 1985?
I think you set your time pod to "reverse" by accident. Today is the 38th of September, 1962.
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@NoOneImportant said:
As a side note, the best thing I ever did to cut my morning commute was to drive something old and unusual. Saved me an easy twenty minutes most mornings because I could just zip up the line of waiting cars at the end of the 5 south express with my blinker on and someone would always slow down to gawk at me and let me in. Same thing coming home.
You can also make it look mean
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@blakeyrat said:
Even automobile fans on this forum have time-pods. How's life back there in 1985?
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@morbiuswilters said:
Sure, people get used to bad interfaces, just like a lot of people are really used to CLIs. At least I can recognize it's bad.
It not quite the same thing really. I would liken it to using Winamp Classic over something like iTunes.
There are other reasons anyway why manual is preferred over here one of them is that petrol prices are quite expensive.
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@morbiuswilters said:
Also, I don't think lucas entirely understands how synchronized transmissions work--the synch isn't between engine and transmission, but between the input and output transmission shafts, to get the gears up to the same speed as the output shaft. On any larger-displacement engine, you still have to use the throttle and foot clutch to match the engine speed to the transmission.
No I don't profess to understand. Most of the time I drive quite a small engined car (1.2 litre). I don't own a car anymore and the odd time I need on I just rent it (it so cheap here it is ridiculous). I am probably matching the RPM to the wheel speed, but tbh it isn't conciously.
