In other news today...
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@cvi words are as-is. No guarantees, all
articleoneboxheadline reads are final.
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@cvi said in In other news today...:
@boomzilla You sure those are real words and not just made up ones?
You mean you haven't pondered that non-Abelion Anyons are what's missing?
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@cvi said in In other news today...:
@boomzilla You sure those are real words and not just made up ones?
All words are made up, but some words are more made up than others.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
@cvi said in In other news today...:
@boomzilla You sure those are real words and not just made up ones?
All words are made up, but some words are more made up than others.
I think a lot of words are made up and kept on standby just in case they're needed.
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Retired Boeing 737 Max Manager Walked Off Of A Flight After Refusing To Fly On The Plane
Ed Pierson retired just two months before the first 737 Max crash, and now heads a non-profit industry monitor.
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@TimeBandit said in In other news today...:
https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/us-wendys-to-test-surge-pricing-18691830.php
insert enshitification rant here
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How strong is Nintendo’s legal case against Switch-emulator Yuzu?
Nintendo is "basically taking the position that emulation itself is unlawful."
I hope this is dismissed but... those two switch emulators have to admit they're basically piracy. Most emulation is piracy of a sort but when it's a generation or two old you can get away with a nudge and a wink. This is rubbing Ninty's nose in it.
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@DogsB emulation is not piracy, it never has been.
The issue is the details for the emulator, whether you had to reverse engineer hardware to get the details, or whether it’s a clean room implementation. And, of course, how you get the software for it.
For example, I have a stack of Wii isos for use with Dolphin, the Wii emulator. Nintendo can fuck off if it wants to call me a pirate because those games were bought legally, and the isos made by me on my hardware. I pirated nothing in their production.
In theory this should hold true for the Switch as well, but you run into the inconvenient problem of how one legally produces media for emulators. Piracy is the most convenient but you completely do not have to pirate anything to emulate happily.
I don’t know if it is feasible to buy something on the online store, and store it on removable media that can be read by other things? If so, can’t see how that could possibly be “piracy” and even the DMCA has some leeway for circumventing copyright protections, though probably not in this instance.
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
Most emulation is piracy of a sort
Most emulation avoids the problem by offloading the piracy part on the user by asking them to provide the BIOS file themselves.
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@Arantor said in In other news today...:
The issue is the details for the emulator, whether you had to reverse engineer hardware to get the details, or whether it’s a clean room implementation.
Not quite. Reverse-engineering hardware is always 100% legal for any purpose. It's only reverse-engineering software that's illegal, and only if EULA explicitly mentions it (which it always does).
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@Gustav said in In other news today...:
@Arantor said in In other news today...:
The issue is the details for the emulator, whether you had to reverse engineer hardware to get the details, or whether it’s a clean room implementation.
Not quite. Reverse-engineering hardware is always 100% legal for any purpose. It's only reverse-engineering software that's illegal, and only if EULA explicitly mentions it (which it always does).
The court cases on this do not entirely differentiate or make this distinction clear - most of the cases end up being about the observation of the behaviour of software to infer the behaviour of hardware (Sega vs Accolade, Atari vs Nintendo come to mind).
Especially in the Sega vs Accolade case where there was no license agreement involved. The court eventually found in Accolade’s favour, though.
More recently it gets murkier because reverse engineering will inevitably have to deal with the access-control and copyright-control mechanism clauses in the DCMA which as far as I can tell do not determine between software and hardware.
The whole thing is a shitshow and the big companies deserve to be smacked down for it, not least because it is all a barrier to archival and so on.
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@Arantor said in In other news today...:
I don’t know if it is feasible to buy something on the online store, and store it on removable media that can be read by other things? If so, can’t see how that could possibly be “piracy” and even the DMCA has some leeway for circumventing copyright protections, though probably not in this instance.
Dumping games from an online store isn't too hard. The bigger problem is that the games for modern consoles come fully encrypted (both digital and physical releases). Definitely 3DS and everything newer does it, not sure about earlier consoles. Decryption keys are baked into the console and extracting them definitely violates DMCA - so emulators offload that part on the user too. If you just happen to legally know the key for whatever reason, it's not piracy.
@Arantor said in In other news today...:
The whole thing is a shitshow and the big companies deserve to be smacked down for it, not least because it is all a barrier to archival and so on.
No argument here.
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@Arantor said in In other news today...:
@DogsB emulation is not piracy, it never has been.
That sounds suspiciously like guns don't kill people, people do. Don't even think about it. I'm not going down that rabbit hole. For most people, it's free shit. I'm inclined to think: if you can pay for it somewhere you should probably pay for it but if it's not available to purchase it is open season. To be fair to most emulation users, a lot of that shit just isn't available anymore. I'd happily give Sony money for Bloodborne but I don't think it's even on PS5 at the moment.
It's very difficult to look at switch emulation and not think of piracy though. There is almost a 0% chance that the primary reason for downloading those emulators for most people is not piracy of some kind.
The issue is the details for the emulator, whether you had to reverse engineer hardware to get the details, or whether it’s a clean room implementation. And, of course, how you get the software for it.
Ninty's claim could be thrown out of court almost immediately for this one. A lot of companies have crashed headfirst into this. I think we might actually have EA to thank for setting a precedent for this.
For example, I have a stack of Wii isos for use with Dolphin, the Wii emulator. Nintendo can fuck off if it wants to call me a pirate because those games were bought legally, and the isos made by me on my hardware. I pirated nothing in their production.
In theory this should hold true for the Switch as well, but you run into the inconvenient problem of how one legally produces media for emulators. Piracy is the most convenient but you completely do not have to pirate anything to emulate happily.
You're getting into weird licensing terrority here but some of us are of the opinion that license holders are liable to make the software work until they're gone out of business. Selling the ip on makes the buyer liable for this.
I don’t know if it is feasible to buy something on the online store, and store it on removable media that can be read by other things? If so, can’t see how that could possibly be “piracy” and even the DMCA has some leeway for circumventing copyright protections, though probably not in this instance.
Funnily enough, piracy proves you in the right here. I might die laughing if someone wins a case and forces console game stores to allow backups to external media that you can run in an emulator.
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
That sounds suspiciously like guns don't kill people, people do.
As someone who has been legally emulating things for more than 25 years, I do take mild offence to being characterised as a pirate by media that blurs the lines in favour of huge companies.
Ninty's claim could be thrown out of court almost immediately for this one. A lot of companies have crashed headfirst into this. I think we might actually have EA to thank for setting a precedent for this.
EA? I thought this was Atari and Accolade's doing, though I also know that LucasArts' vestigal organs at one point tried to send a C&D to ScummVM who promptly told them where to fuck off (and were both legally and morally in the right)
You're getting into weird licensing terrority here but some of us are of the opinion that license holders are liable to make the software work until they're gone out of business.
To a point I can see that.
But for folks like EA or Nintendo, are they really bound to keep things around and working for 30+ years after their lifespan ended?
We know Nintendo actively leverage their old IP and why they're so ruthless about emulation.
But then you have EA which has so much old stuff out there that they still own the rights to, though fortunately they're reasonably smart and put a lot of it on GOG where viable. And then there's the rest of their software that I'd love to see become available one way or another without it being a ballache. Deluxe Paint is probably my goto example here; I went out of my way to buy a second hand CD of it for the Amiga to get the last release of it from 30 years ago, but I'd happily have given maybe £10 (maybe even £20) for a convenient and legal download with the manual. Don't even need to have warranty or support for something like that.
Is it right - legally or morally - to force a rights holder to service something in perpetuity? I think this comes back to the 'shorten copyright terms already you fuckers'
In the meantime I am going to use the software I legally purchased and middle finger up to them.
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@Gustav said in In other news today...:
It's only reverse-engineering software that's illegal, and only if EULA explicitly mentions it (which it always does).
but the EULA doesn't apply to you if you didn't read it 
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
I'd happily give Sony money for Bloodborne but I don't think it's even on PS5 at the moment.
Here: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/bloodborne/
To play this game on PS5, your system may need to be updated to the latest system software. Although this game is playable on PS5, some features available on PS4 may be absent.
The overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 games are playable on PS5 consoles. (...) While the majority of PS4 games are playable on PS5 consoles, below is a list of PS4 games that are playable on PS4 only. On PlayStation™Store, PS4 games that are not playable on the PS5 console will be marked with ‘Playable on: PS4 only’.
Afro Samurai 2 Revenge of Kuma Volume One
Just Deal With It!
Robinson: The Journey
We Sing
Hitman Go: Definitive Edition
ShadwenNow give Sony some money.
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@Arantor said in In other news today...:
@DogsB said in In other news today...:
That sounds suspiciously like guns don't kill people, people do.
As someone who has been legally emulating things for more than 25 years, I do take mild offence to being characterised as a pirate by media that blurs the lines in favour of huge companies.
That's fair. You bought it, you should get to play it for as long as is reasonably possible. The emulation is archival or a public good just gets on my nerves. For most people it's free shit. I don't mind that people are doing that. It's when they try to dress it up it gets on my nerves.
God but that was a terrible analogy. Thanks for not running with it.
Ninty's claim could be thrown out of court almost immediately for this one. A lot of companies have crashed headfirst into this. I think we might actually have EA to thank for setting a precedent for this.
EA? I thought this was Atari and Accolade's doing, though I also know that LucasArts' vestigal organs at one point tried to send a C&D to ScummVM who promptly told them where to fuck off (and were both legally and morally in the right)
The first I know of is EA carts for sega mega drive. I think... They were sued for unlicenced carts and it was the Chinese wall between clean room and development that saved them. Emulation sounds a bit different though but legally a bee might be a fish in some places.
You're getting into weird licensing terrority here but some of us are of the opinion that license holders are liable to make the software work until they're gone out of business.
To a point I can see that.
But for folks like EA or Nintendo, are they really bound to keep things around and working for 30+ years after their lifespan ended?
We know Nintendo actively leverage their old IP and why they're so ruthless about emulation.
Ninty is such a weird company but in their own way, they're kind of right because they do leverage and make available a lot of their old ip. They sue the oddest people though. Hiring the guy who did the super metroid remake and releasing it would have garnered them more money and good pr instead of suing him. And that's just the tip of the ice-berg.
But then you have EA which has so much old stuff out there that they still own the rights to, though fortunately they're reasonably smart and put a lot of it on GOG where viable. And then there's the rest of their software that I'd love to see become available one way or another without it being a ballache. Deluxe Paint is probably my goto example here; I went out of my way to buy a second hand CD of it for the Amiga to get the last release of it from 30 years ago, but I'd happily have given maybe £10 (maybe even £20) for a convenient and legal download with the manual. Don't even need to have warranty or support for something like that.
Is it right - legally or morally - to force a rights holder to service something in perpetuity? I think this comes back to the 'shorten copyright terms already you fuckers'
They're going down the forever store route so I would say yes. When things were physical media, I could kind of give them a pass. Now that its bits on a server somewhere and emulation is a thing, I'm not as charitable.
In the meantime I am going to use the software I legally purchased and middle finger up to them.
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@Gustav said in In other news today...:
@DogsB said in In other news today...:
I'd happily give Sony money for Bloodborne but I don't think it's even on PS5 at the moment.
Here: https://www.playstation.com/en-us/games/bloodborne/
To play this game on PS5, your system may need to be updated to the latest system software. Although this game is playable on PS5, some features available on PS4 may be absent.
The overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 games are playable on PS5 consoles. (...) While the majority of PS4 games are playable on PS5 consoles, below is a list of PS4 games that are playable on PS4 only. On PlayStation™Store, PS4 games that are not playable on the PS5 console will be marked with ‘Playable on: PS4 only’.
Afro Samurai 2 Revenge of Kuma Volume One
Just Deal With It!
Robinson: The Journey
We Sing
Hitman Go: Definitive Edition
ShadwenNow give Sony some money.
Bitch, I'm not giving Sony that much money. Too rich for my blood and that Midori no Hibi collection won't expand itself. I'll just have to do without that and Demon Souls.
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I'm just surprised they're still on about this. In my eyes, I would rather not sell a console at a loss and instead let the so-called pirate deal with any and all issues caused by non-validated hardware and software. Hell, make it possible to register the fake consoles so they can more easily acquire digital rights to said software (still with no liability). Always-online activation is becoming less unaccepted anyways, so what if a miniscule amount of players can play a game for a few days without activating?
But anyways, what else is news today?
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@Tsaukpaetra because for these types, one person playing who didn’t give them money is too many people. It’s not enough to make some of the money, they have to make all of the money.
Like Nintendo had a spell (might even still do it) where it would go after Let’s Players of their games and demand the monetisation. Most devs generally let the streamers play without fuss because it’s free advertising but not Nintendo.
But none of that is news. Am sorry, fresh out of news right now.
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@Arantor We could complain about how it's not March the first. I feel the Romans are involved in this somehow.
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
That sounds suspiciously like guns don't kill people, people do.
No, it's more "you wouldn't download a car". Hell yeah, I would.
Console emulation is about the hardware. If you could buy cheap Chinese knock-off consoles, they'd be legal too, because you're allowed to reverse-engineer the hardware (IBM-compatible PC, right?). There might be problems with trademarks and maybe patents, but (besides some BIOS stuff @gustav mentioned) no problems with copyright. As long as you buy legal copies of the games to play on the Chinese knock-off console, that is. Downloading ISOs is the copyright violation part, if you don't already own the game. (Technically, if you already own the game, it's probably still copyright violation, but fuck that.)
Don't even think about it. I'm not going down that rabbit hole. For most people, it's free shit.
You could get the free shit otherwise. Of course, this makes it easier to use the free shit, but it's the ISO sites that are the problem.
ETA: Speaking of Sony, you can also play your legally bought DVD movies on cheap-ass Chinese DVD players instead of paying out of your behind for a Sony one. Although this one definitely has patent bullshit involved.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
No, it's more "you wouldn't download a car". Hell yeah, I would.
EmulationStation-DE for Android booted from Amazon Appstore, now available through Patreon - Liliputing
EmulationStation-DE for Android booted from Amazon Appstore, now available through Patreon
We're not allowed to have nice things.
No, don't look at scam offerings that are still up.
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
@Arantor We could complain about how it's not March the first. I feel the Romans are involved in this somehow.
But what did the Romans ever do for us, eh?
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
@Arantor We could complain about how it's not March the first. I feel the Romans are involved in this somehow.
We already had the leap day. I believe it is technically inserted earlier in the month (24th?) but that is only really noticeable if you follow saints' days and things like that.
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@dkf said in In other news today...:
@DogsB said in In other news today...:
@Arantor We could complain about how it's not March the first. I feel the Romans are involved in this somehow.
We already had the leap day. I believe it is technically inserted earlier in the month (24th?) but that is only really noticeable if you follow saints' days and things like that.
Sounds suspiciously like Roman collaboration.
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Because no-one has ever had to deal with February 29 before.
Petrol pumps back online after day-long outage blamed on leap year glitch
The curse of February 29 hits Waitomo, Gull and Allied pumps along with BP truckstops.
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@Watson said in In other news today...:
Because no-one has ever had to deal with February 29 before.
They did, once, 1995 years ago, but these things get forgotten or lost with enough time.
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@Watson Look, we would have accounted for it, but the project deadline was 2023, and we could not test it
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@dkf said in In other news today...:
We already had the leap day. I believe it is technically inserted earlier in the month (24th?) but that is only really noticeable if you follow saints' days and things like that.
In Caesar's revised calendar, there was just one intercalary day – nowadays called the leap day – to be inserted every fourth year, and this too was done after 23 February. To create the intercalary day, the existing ante diem sextum Kalendas Martias (sixth day (inclusive: i.e. what we would call the fifth day before) before the Kalends (first day) of March, i.e. what we would call 24 February) was doubled,[18] producing ante diem bis sextum Kalendas Martias [a second sixth day before the Kalends. This bis sextum ("twice sixth") was rendered in later languages as "bissextile"
In a leap year in the original Julian calendar, there were indeed two days both numbered 24 February. This practice continued for another fifteen to seventeen centuries, even after most countries had adopted the Gregorian calendar.
Vestigium tempus durum est. Eamus acquisitionem.
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Meanwhile in
, the country of technological leadership:
Um Papier zu sparen: Sparkasse Bremen verschickt 15.000 USB-Sticks mit AGB
Während andere Unternehmen USB-Sticks wegen Sicherheitsbedenken kaum noch verteilen, erhalten Bremer Sparkassen-Kunden darüber neue Geschäftsbedingungen.
A bank (Sparkasse Bremen) had to send their updated Terms&Conditions to their business customers. Because they did not want to send that booklet in paper (~140 pages), they decided to put them on a thumbdrive, and then
the thumbdrives to their customers...
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@Gustav said in In other news today...:
@Arantor said in In other news today...:
The issue is the details for the emulator, whether you had to reverse engineer hardware to get the details, or whether it’s a clean room implementation.
Not quite. Reverse-engineering hardware is always 100% legal for any purpose. It's only reverse-engineering software that's illegal, and only if EULA explicitly mentions it (which it always does).
I guess that assumes that there are no patent issues with the hardware, which might or might not be true.
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@boomzilla patents only forbid using the results of the reverse-engineering, not the act of reverse-engineering itself. Whereas EULA may forbid the act itself.
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@Gustav
accepted.
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@DogsB said in In other news today...:
@Arantor We could complain about how it's not March the first. I feel the Romans are involved in this somehow.
It took me all morning to understand what this means. FFS, it’s really end of February already? I figured I’d have at least half a week or so left.
Time flies when you’re not having fun.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
Time flies when you’re not having fun.
And fruit flies when you don't throw out the old bananas?
FIled under: Yes I know where the door is
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@Gustav said in In other news today...:
@boomzilla patents only forbid using the results of the reverse-engineering, not the act of reverse-engineering itself.
I suspect that patents don't even forbid using the results of the reverse-engineering, just using the results of the reverse-engineering in a product for sale.
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White House urges developers to avoid C and C++, use 'memory-safe' programming languages
The languages may pose a security risk when used in critical systems.
NSA Suggested Memory-Safe Programming Languages
...
JavaScript
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@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
Meanwhile in
, the country of technological leadership:
Um Papier zu sparen: Sparkasse Bremen verschickt 15.000 USB-Sticks mit AGB
Während andere Unternehmen USB-Sticks wegen Sicherheitsbedenken kaum noch verteilen, erhalten Bremer Sparkassen-Kunden darüber neue Geschäftsbedingungen.
A bank (Sparkasse Bremen) had to send their updated Terms&Conditions to their business customers. Because they did not want to send that booklet in paper (~140 pages), they decided to put them on a thumbdrive, and then
the thumbdrives to their customers...
is 140 pages of terms & conditions.
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@HardwareGeek you have 5 minutes to read and accept before they log you out.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
@DogsB said in In other news today...:
@Arantor We could complain about how it's not March the first. I feel the Romans are involved in this somehow.
It took me all morning to understand what this means. FFS, it’s really end of February already? I figured I’d have at least half a week or so left.
Time flies when you’re not having fun.
February flies by because it's 1/30th as long as January.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek you have 5 minutes to read and accept before they log you out.
I wonder if they make you state that you have read and understood them. Note that online EULAs making you state that you have read them (let alone understood them) is a recent phenomenona. Acceptance of a contract is just as legally valid without making the signer state that they have read what they are signing.
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@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
Meanwhile in
, the country of technological leadership:
Um Papier zu sparen: Sparkasse Bremen verschickt 15.000 USB-Sticks mit AGB
Während andere Unternehmen USB-Sticks wegen Sicherheitsbedenken kaum noch verteilen, erhalten Bremer Sparkassen-Kunden darüber neue Geschäftsbedingungen.
A bank (Sparkasse Bremen) had to send their updated Terms&Conditions to their business customers. Because they did not want to send that booklet in paper (~140 pages), they decided to put them on a thumbdrive, and then
the thumbdrives to their customers... is 140 pages of terms & conditions.You are right,
A good german bank should offer 140,000 pages of T&C, providing you with value for your bugcks.
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@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
Meanwhile in
, the country of technological leadership:
Um Papier zu sparen: Sparkasse Bremen verschickt 15.000 USB-Sticks mit AGB
Während andere Unternehmen USB-Sticks wegen Sicherheitsbedenken kaum noch verteilen, erhalten Bremer Sparkassen-Kunden darüber neue Geschäftsbedingungen.
A bank (Sparkasse Bremen) had to send their updated Terms&Conditions to their business customers. Because they did not want to send that booklet in paper (~140 pages), they decided to put them on a thumbdrive, and then
the thumbdrives to their customers... is 140 pages of terms & conditions.But
so you can rest assured it will be needlessly thorough while probably not actually telling you anything useful.
-
@Arantor said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
Meanwhile in
, the country of technological leadership:
Um Papier zu sparen: Sparkasse Bremen verschickt 15.000 USB-Sticks mit AGB
Während andere Unternehmen USB-Sticks wegen Sicherheitsbedenken kaum noch verteilen, erhalten Bremer Sparkassen-Kunden darüber neue Geschäftsbedingungen.
A bank (Sparkasse Bremen) had to send their updated Terms&Conditions to their business customers. Because they did not want to send that booklet in paper (~140 pages), they decided to put them on a thumbdrive, and then
the thumbdrives to their customers... is 140 pages of terms & conditions.But
so you can rest assured it will be needlessly thorough while probably not actually telling you anything useful.It's probably also only 7 German words
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@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
Meanwhile in
, the country of technological leadership:
Um Papier zu sparen: Sparkasse Bremen verschickt 15.000 USB-Sticks mit AGB
Während andere Unternehmen USB-Sticks wegen Sicherheitsbedenken kaum noch verteilen, erhalten Bremer Sparkassen-Kunden darüber neue Geschäftsbedingungen.
A bank (Sparkasse Bremen) had to send their updated Terms&Conditions to their business customers. Because they did not want to send that booklet in paper (~140 pages), they decided to put them on a thumbdrive, and then
the thumbdrives to their customers... is 140 pages of terms & conditions.You are right,
A good german bank should offer 140,000 pages of T&C, providing you with value for your bugcks.That would provide you with a larger thumbdrive.
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@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
You are right,
A good german bank should offer 140,000 pages of T&C, providing you with value for your bugcks.At least that would be resistant to being scraped by OpenAI for now.
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@loopback0 said in In other news today...:
February flies by because it's 1/30th as long as January.
I can't fault your math.
Backward compatibility: PS4 games playable on PS5 consoles
