In other news today...
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hmm, seem to have left off the :sarcasm: tag earlier.
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@Dragoon sorry, wasn't clear if you were being sarcastic or not.
I'd like to remain the original OG Arantor on Discord but I'm probably not going to be.
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Yeah, it can certainly be read either way and I did leave off the tag, so totally my fault.
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I mean, it is a stupid move on Discord's part and there are definitely people in the IDGAF category just as there are people in the 'well actually I'd quite like...' category.
The impersonation factor on the other hand... did they learn nothing? There is speculation (as per that article but also other places) that this is a setup towards a paid verification service, but that's really not what Discord did well fundamentally; it's one centralised service but functionally pretending to be multiple fake-decentralised servers. You don't need a global identity in that universe.
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@Arantor said in In other news today...:
there are definitely people in the IDGAF category
My display name doesn't have numbers. IDGAF if the primary ID does; that's not what people see. OTOH, the servers where my display name matches my Steam ID have the Steam ID numbers, because matching.
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@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@Carnage said in In other news today...:
the welcome/destination announcement happens when everyone is seated, so you'd have to get up and tell a flight attendant that you are on the wrong plane, and then they have to tell the pilots to stop departure
Still better than flying to the wrong destination.
Years and years back (like, '80s, I think) there was an incident where a passenger flying to Oakland ended up in Auckland because he misheard the boarding call. He twigged that something was off when he looked out of the window and saw he was over the ocean.
No idea how he ended up managing to board, but it was a more innocent time, then.
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@Watson said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@Carnage said in In other news today...:
the welcome/destination announcement happens when everyone is seated, so you'd have to get up and tell a flight attendant that you are on the wrong plane, and then they have to tell the pilots to stop departure
Still better than flying to the wrong destination.
Years and years back (like, '80s) I think, there was an incident where a passenger flying to Oakland ended up in Auckland because he misheard the boarding call. He twigged that something was off when he looked out of the window and saw he was over the ocean.
No idea how he ended up managing to board, but it was a more innocent time, then.
And then he decided to go to Bayreuth, and instead they sent him to Beirut.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in In other news today...:
How exactly did this lady get past the boarding pass scanner at the gate?!?
My guess is either the scanner was out of order and the passes were just checked with the stewards' own eyes, the scanner does not actually check the flight, or the scanner actually showed invalid, but because it does it too often spuriously, the steward looked at the pass and it looked fine to them, so they waved the passenger in anyway.
Frontier Airlines accidentally flies Florida-bound passenger to foreign country without a passport
Frontier Airlines passenger Beverly Ellis-Hebard intended to fly from Philadelphia to Jacksonville, Florida, but a gate change mishap caused her to fly to Jamaica with no passport.
Does Philadelphia not have separate domestic and foreign terminals? It seems to be large enough for that.
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@Bulb said in In other news today...:
Does Philadelphia not have separate domestic and foreign terminals? It seems to be large enough for that.
US airports usually only separate foreign arrivals. Departures are typically all mixed, and often arranged by airline and not destination class. Two big departures next to each other can get quite chaotic.
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@da-Doctah said in In other news today...:
And then he decided to go to Bayreuth, and instead they sent him to Beirut.
I'm not sure how that would happen; Bayreuth does have a small airport, but there hasn't been commercial air service there since 2001. When it did have scheduled air service, there were only regional flights to/from Frankfurt, Hof, and for a short period of time, Düsseldorf. Back when those flights were still available, I suppose Frankfurt might offer flights to both, so that error might have been possible, but the passenger would have to be really dense to mistake a jet capable of flying from Germany to Lebanon for the little puddle-jumper turboprop used on the flight to Bayreuth.
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@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
the passenger would have to be really dense to mistake a jet capable of flying from Germany to Lebanon for the little puddle-jumper turboprop used on the flight to Bayreuth.
I don't see how that would be any problem.
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@dkf said in In other news today...:
@Bulb said in In other news today...:
Does Philadelphia not have separate domestic and foreign terminals? It seems to be large enough for that.
US airports usually only separate foreign arrivals. Departures are typically all mixed, and often arranged by airline and not destination class. Two big departures next to each other can get quite chaotic.
In Europe most airports have designated Schengen an non-Schengen areas and the non-Schengen areas are entered through passport control where everybody shows their passport independently of where they are flying. So while someone can manage to board the wrong flight, it's virtually impossible for someone to board an out-of-Schengen flight
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@Watson said in In other news today...:
flying to Oakland ended up in Auckland
In germany, we are joking about those people from saxony who booked Bordeaux instead of Porto (they fail to differentiate b/p, k/g, d/t).
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@Bulb said in In other news today...:
the non-Schengen areas are entered through passport control where everybody shows their passport independently of where they are flying. So while someone can manage to board the wrong flight, it's virtually impossible for someone to board an out-of-Schengen flight
So what? There are member states of the EU which are not part of Schengen, there are Schengen members not part of EU, there are ex-EU members, etc.
So when you walk thru passport control, would that really be so clear what's happening?
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@dkf said in In other news today...:
US airports usually only separate foreign arrivals. Departures are typically all mixed
Very odd. I haven't been to the US yet, I cannor remember where an airport does not separate between foreign and domestic departures.
Strangest arrivals I have expereienced is going to Phuket via Bangkok: you do passport control / immigration at Bangkok airport, then enter the local flight to Phuket, where passengers from the same plane then have to follow different paths for baggage reclaim, the "foreign arrivals" having to go thru customs here.Ha - wait. Not sure about the flight back... There might have been 2 ways to the same plane from Phuket to Bangkok - one thru "foreign departures" and another one thru "domestic", and then again a separation of passengers at Bangkok airport...
Anyways, my baggage was checked thru to Germany, I could shortly go into Bangkok town, had to pay additional Bangkok airport tax ($3), and then walk thru passport control at Bangkok airport when boarding the plane to germany.
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@BernieTheBernie Yes, because if you don't walk through passport control, you won't get to the gates from which planes depart to places where you'd need passport after getting there. The EU status is mostly irrelevant.
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@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
@Watson said in In other news today...:
flying to Oakland ended up in Auckland
In germany, we are joking about those people from saxony who booked Bordeaux instead of Porto
Because of their taste in wine?
(they fail to differentiate b/p, k/g, d/t).
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@Bulb said in In other news today...:
@BernieTheBernie Yes, because if you don't walk through passport control, you won't get to the gates from which planes depart to places where you'd need passport after getting there. The EU status is mostly irrelevant.
IME they make you show a passport when boarding an international flight in the US but not before (possibly some airlines will ask to see them when you check in before going back to the gate). Been a few years. The only airport I'm familiar with that has a separate international terminal is LAX (Los Angeles) but that really means that foreign airlines use that one. The US flagged carriers use the same terminal their domestic flights use.
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@boomzilla said in In other news today...:
possibly some airlines will ask to see them when you check in before going back to the gate
That would be normal, but the final check is still at the gate whenever there's a border crossing involved because countries tend to insist that airlines pay for fuck-ups. (Don't know what happens if the person is denied entry despite not being flagged at the time the final passenger manifest is generated.)
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@dkf said in In other news today...:
@boomzilla said in In other news today...:
possibly some airlines will ask to see them when you check in before going back to the gate
That would be normal, but the final check is still at the gate whenever there's a border crossing involved because countries tend to insist that airlines pay for fuck-ups. (Don't know what happens if the person is denied entry despite not being flagged at the time the final passenger manifest is generated.)
In TFA the airline kept her on the jetway and took her back to Philly. But yeah, I've always had to show the passport to the agent at the gate...though it's been a while since I've been on an international flight, and longer than that since I've flown out of Philly.
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@boomzilla said in In other news today...:
longer than that since I've flown out of Philly
That's one I've never flown out of at all. I've been through Detroit too many times, but not so much many of the other infamous ones (because it was convenient to fly with Delta due to connections on my side of the Atlantic).
LAX is the worst. Or maybe there was just a riot in the terminal that day. Hard to tell.
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@boomzilla said in In other news today...:
I've always had to show the passport to the agent at the gate...though it's been a while since I've been on an international flight
The last time I flew internationally (to Vancouver, Canada, which barely counts), I had to show my passport to the agent at the gate, but prior to boarding, not as I was boarding, so I suppose it's still possible I could have somehow boarded the wrong plane if I was especially stupid. However, I was flying Air Canada, so I still would have ended up somewhere in the land of permanent winter.
Previous times were too long ago to remember the details. The last time before that trip was almost 20 years ago.
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@BernieTheBernie said in In other news today...:
@dkf said in In other news today...:
US airports usually only separate foreign arrivals. Departures are typically all mixed
Very odd.
Not really, if you think about it. We don't care who leaves, we only care who's coming in.
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@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
Good, I can get my name on Discord without the stupid numbers on it, nobody is ever going to have my username there.
Same! Or at least, they better have a fucking excellent reason for doing so.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
@Zerosquare said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra said in The Official Status Thread:
New battery is working fine.
Don't worry, it won't last.
Well duh, that's why it's considered "consumable".
@topspin said in The Official Status Thread:
@Tsaukpaetra please don’t eat it. I don’t think a reboot will fix that.
Life imitates art:
Researchers craft a fully edible battery
It has a terrible capacity but shows we don't need to use toxic materials.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
It has a terrible capacity but shows we don't need to use toxic materials.
Well, duh. You can make a battery out of a lemon and a couple of wires. Pick the right metals for the wires and will be (technically) edible, maybe even good for you. Mmm, calcium citrate. It'll be utterly impractical, but it will be edible.
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The war on piracy is going great!
Nintendo Accidentally Copyright Strikes Itself In Its Effort To Combat 'Tears Of The Kingdom' Leaks
The notoriously strict company copyright struck itself for showing _Tears of the Kingdom_ footage it had already released.
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Democracy in action
‘Raise your hand’: Passengers vote to kick woman off Frontier Airlines flight
Video footage of the incident has gone viral on social media with more than 7 million views.
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@TimeBandit Saw that at an airport recently. I was buying a bottle of water (IIRC) from a shelf nearby. Like, wtf, yo?
Either way, fortunately, that's not a problem outside of the US, because fuck mandatory tipping (and taxes are also already included in the prices here).
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@cvi said in In other news today...:
fuck mandatory tipping
As long as it isn't mandatory, meh. If there was no interaction with a human, I'll tip $0, but if there's no option to not tip, I'll exercise the option to not purchase.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
if they refuse to leave when requested by police, it becomes a trespass
It should have always been considered trespass, what the actual fuck....
My understanding is that the police try not to
do any workact as judges, so when they end up in a he-said/she-said situation that might just be a civil complaint, they default to "let's not arrest people."I can easily imagine this law being used improperly. What if a landlord hides their documentation and accuses some tenants of being squatters? They might be able to illegally evict the tenants, and then, I dunno, rent the place for 1.5x the previous rent or something. The tenants' only option would be to go homeless for a while, and then, if they can persuade the authorities, get the landlord arrested and/or fined... a few months later.
The officer on the scene is going to have to make a snap judgement whether these are lawful tenants or squatters, and either side could be lying. Depending on the wording of that law, the "squatters" might just be tenants a bit late on rent that the landlord hasn't bothered to evict yet.
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@TimeBandit I don't understand how this emotional blackmail could work. There is no human to reward for good service, so why give a tip. The machine won't do a better job if it's getting tips. And I'm pretty fucking certain that the hardware designers and programmers won't get the tip for doing a good job.
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@Carnage said in In other news today...:
@TimeBandit I don't understand how this emotional blackmail could work. There is no human to reward for good service, so why give a tip. The machine won't do a better job if it's getting tips. And I'm pretty fucking certain that the hardware designers and programmers won't get the tip for doing a good job.
They are brainwashed into thinking not giving a tip is immoral. That's how it works.
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
@Carnage said in In other news today...:
@TimeBandit I don't understand how this emotional blackmail could work. There is no human to reward for good service, so why give a tip. The machine won't do a better job if it's getting tips. And I'm pretty fucking certain that the hardware designers and programmers won't get the tip for doing a good job.
They are brainwashed into thinking not giving a tip is immoral. That's how it works.
But in this interaction, there isn't anyone to tip. Do they also feel bad when they don't tip at self service gas pumps, or at the airport check-in kiosks?
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Remember that that tipping culture is born out of “let’s pay people $2.37 an hour or whatever and they can earn the rest of their money through customer generosity”
When you live in that world, tipping is mandatory by expectation so expectation of tipping even in a totally automated world seems right up there.
Honestly, while one cannot help but admire whoever managed to come up with the grift concept of everything is for sale, on sheer chutzpah if nothing else, it does feel weird coming from a country where tipping is absolutely not normalised (and is only expected for actually good service), where people pump their own petrol into their car, and that the price on the shelf is the price I pay at the register - and I remain baffled to expectations of the contrary.
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@Carnage said in In other news today...:
But in this interaction, there isn't anyone to tip.
What if we add Chat-GPT to the self-checkout kiosk?
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@TimeBandit let’s do one better and add Talkie Toaster’s AI to it instead.
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@Arantor said in In other news today...:
Remember that that tipping culture is born out of “let’s pay people $2.37 an hour or whatever and they can earn the rest of their money through customer generosity”
When you live in that world, tipping is mandatory by expectation so expectation of tipping even in a totally automated world seems right up there.
That isn't quite how it works. The employer is required to pay them minimum wage. However, they can reduce how much they pay them based on their tips, down to a certain % of minimum wage (typically 50%).TLDR: If nobody tipped a tipped employee would still make at least minimum wage.
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@Dragoon why not just pay the workers the minimum wage directly, charge the equivalent of the tip and then… not have tips?
That seems awfully circuitous otherwise.
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@Arantor Some places in Europe are already doing that (in the name of taxing everything properly; tips wouldn't be taxed). But would pride allow America to do what Europe does?
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@Bulb said in In other news today...:
But would pride allow America to do what Europe does?
That is why we started tipping in the first place. We stole it from europeans, who promptly turned around and stopped doing it, less someone think they were American.
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Tips trace all the way back to Medieval Europe and serfs being 'tipped' for exceptional service. Tipping for good service was a common practice all over europe in the early 1800's, when rich Americans travelled abroad and noticed the custom. Wanting to be more proper, it was brought to the US. Where it was promptly rejected as being -ist. This mentality spread to Europe and they stopped tipping.
Meanwhile in the US... with the abolishment of slavery, people found a new way to keep 'slaves' by paying them very little for a job and 'allowing' the customer to tip them for their service. Various states did various things to hinder/encourage this tactic. In 1938, it was officially enshrined into law with a before and after tip minimum wage established. Over time, several states have passed law such that tips are additional after minimum wage, but it is up to the states.
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@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
@Arantor said in In other news today...:
Remember that that tipping culture is born out of “let’s pay people $2.37 an hour or whatever and they can earn the rest of their money through customer generosity”
When you live in that world, tipping is mandatory by expectation so expectation of tipping even in a totally automated world seems right up there.
That isn't quite how it works. The employer is required to pay them minimum wage. However, they can reduce how much they pay them based on their tips, down to a certain % of minimum wage (typically 50%).So you think you’re tipping the employee, the law says the employee has to get the tip,
they do, and yet you’re effectively tipping the employer.
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@Carnage said in In other news today...:
But in this interaction, there isn't anyone to tip.
Thinking about this earlier, I realized this isn't actually true. In many cases (particularly food service, but possibly others), the tip doesn't go to the individual who served you (who does not exist in the self-checkout situation we're talking about). Instead, it goes into a common kitty that is distributed among the entire staff working that shift. Some of it goes to the individual (if any) who served you. Some of it goes to the person who cooked the food. Some of it goes to the bus-person who cleared the table when you were done. Some of it goes to the dishwashers. Etc. (Adjust roles as appropriate to the industry and situation.) The distribution is unaffected by your perception of the quality of the service provided by each of the recipients, since most of them you aren't even aware of. By failing to tip the non-existent server, you are also failing to tip all of the other behind-the-scenes people who would get a share of it.
Whether this is a good system or not, it exists.
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@HardwareGeek how is that any different from the other examples i used? There is always people doing unseen work, why only tip some of the time for entirely arbitrary reasons?
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@topspin said in In other news today...:
@Dragoon said in In other news today...:
@Arantor said in In other news today...:
Remember that that tipping culture is born out of “let’s pay people $2.37 an hour or whatever and they can earn the rest of their money through customer generosity”
When you live in that world, tipping is mandatory by expectation so expectation of tipping even in a totally automated world seems right up there.
That isn't quite how it works. The employer is required to pay them minimum wage. However, they can reduce how much they pay them based on their tips, down to a certain % of minimum wage (typically 50%).So you think you’re tipping the employee, the law says the employee has to get the tip,
they do, and yet you’re effectively tipping the employer.Eh, you'd just end up paying much more money for your food, assuming they got paid the same in wages as they got in tips, though of course that will vary by restaurant. At least this way there's the possibility for incentives to good service (INB4 whatever stupid dickweedery you guys come up with on this).
NB: all tips are supposed to be reported as income, and probably that happens with tips via credit card. Cash tips often get estimated, since if you don't report anything it will draw the Eye of
SauronThe Taxman upon you.
