The Belt Onion club
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@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
it's over 600 years old, language evolved a bit.
Languages usually evolve into something simpler, not the opposite
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@Zerosquare said the Frenchman.
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If you think that French is complex, you haven't seen Latin.
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@Zerosquare bro I'm talking in 7 grammatical cases.
Although I admit, the postfix "and" that merges with previous word is pretty weird.
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@Gąska laughs in Estonian 14 cases, many of whom are entirely irregular, and some of which are only reached by partially declining into one case, then chopping off part of the ending and adding a new one.
While I was in the Baltics, I learned to understand some conversational Latvian just by exposure. Couldn't speak it, but I could catch enough to get by and respond appropriately, and even translate some specialized (ie religious) phrases into Russian without needing a separate Latvian -> English translation.
Estonian? Yeah. No. I learned two phrases ("I don't speak Estonian" and "We are church missionaries here in Tartu") by memorizing sounds. The rest might as well have been Greek.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in The Belt Onion club:
Estonian? Yeah. No. I learned two phrases ("I don't speak Estonian" and "We are church missionaries here in Tartu") by memorizing sounds.
narrator: such poor cover-up lasted a picosecond, and then @Benjamin-Hall landed in a dark and cold dungeon...
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@Zerosquare said in The Belt Onion club:
Are you sure it's Polish? I only see one single diacritic in it.
It looks pretty much like what I'd expect when a pani is giving birth to a god though.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in The Belt Onion club:
The rest might as well have been Greek.
Greek's easier, at least for people with some experience in most European languages.
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@Zerosquare said in The Belt Onion club:
French is complex
Well, the writing is. When speaking most words are only half as long :tgv:
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@dkf said in The Belt Onion club:
@Benjamin-Hall said in The Belt Onion club:
The rest might as well have been Greek.
Greek's easier, at least for people with some experience in most European languages.
Greek only has 4 cases (5 if you count vocative, but it's nearly always identical to nominative; the only common exception is κύριε, kyrie, lord), and Modern Greek has dropped one of them.
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English: “Do I write ‘you’ in this context, or should that be ‘you’?”
Filed under: the world’s hardest language, according to the English monoglots we surveyed
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@kazitor With English speakers it's usually spelling not grammar. And people who apologise in advance for their ESL are almost universally better spellers than the natives.
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@PleegWat Every time we have this discussion, I can't help thinking of My Fair Lady:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAYUuspQ6BYLook at her, a prisoner of the gutter
Condemned by every syllable she utters
By right she should be taken out and hung
For the cold-blooded murder of the English tongue...
The Scots and the Irish leave you close to tears
There even are places where English completely disappearsIn America, they haven't used it for years!
Why can't the English teach their children how to speak?
Norwegians learn Norwegian
The Greeks are taught their Greek
In France every Frenchman knows his language from "A" to "Zed"The French never care what they do, actually, as long as they pronounce it properly
...
But use proper English and you're regarded as a freak
Why can't the English
Why can't the English
Learn to speak?
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@HardwareGeek I remember reading the play version of that - Pygmalion - in English Literature, and this being my introduction to the International Phonetic Alphabet. (I was going to suggest that it was my introduction to IPA but I was, at the time, a shade young to be drinking such things, though it was the fashion of the time.)
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@dcon said in The Belt Onion club:
@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
Of course, this means you
may have also been born yesterdayare using Linux.
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@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
@dcon said in The Belt Onion club:
@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
Of course, this means you
may have also been born yesterdayare using Linux.
Hey, it's control characters in names that cause fear. Spaces are an annoyance.
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@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
@dcon said in The Belt Onion club:
@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
Of course, this means you
may have also been born yesterdayare using Linux.
Or trying to install Python. Python 2, that is, because after 10 years of Python 3, most code is still Python 2, and incompatible.
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@BernieTheBernie said in The Belt Onion club:
@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
@dcon said in The Belt Onion club:
@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
Of course, this means you
may have also been born yesterdayare using Linux.
Or trying to install Python. Python 2, that is, because after 10 years of Python 3, most code is still Python 2, and incompatible.
That's an approach to software support that reminds me of Wile E Coyote and a cliff above a canyon.
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@Carnage said in The Belt Onion club:
it's control characters in names that cause fear
Why?
ls
is hardened against that stuff.
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@dkf said in The Belt Onion club:
@Carnage said in The Belt Onion club:
it's control characters in names that cause fear
Why?
ls
is hardened against that stuff.Yeah, then there is everything else. Not that I'm prone to fear either way.
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@Carnage said in The Belt Onion club:
then there is everything else
Which is usually not used to write filenames to the terminal…
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@dkf said in The Belt Onion club:
@Carnage said in The Belt Onion club:
then there is everything else
Which is usually not used to write filenames to the terminal…
Yeah, I guess we'll have to wait for the SystemD guys to break things in hilarious ways due to file names.
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@PleegWat said in The Belt Onion club:
@kazitor With English speakers it's usually spelling not grammar. And people who apologise in advance for their ESL are almost universally better spellers than the natives.
I found the same thing with native Spanish speakers when I was taking Spanish in high school. Their biggest problem was keeping
B
vsV
straight. Also, my English spelling used to be really good before taking Spanish but since then I've had a more difficult time especially with words with double letters in them.
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@Carnage said in The Belt Onion club:
wait for the SystemD guys to break things
I'm just going to assume they already have.
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@boomzilla said in The Belt Onion club:
@PleegWat said in The Belt Onion club:
@kazitor With English speakers it's usually spelling not grammar. And people who apologise in advance for their ESL are almost universally better spellers than the natives.
I found the same thing with native Spanish speakers when I was taking Spanish in high school. Their biggest problem was keeping
B
vsV
straight. Also, my English spelling used to be really good before taking Spanish but since then I've had a more difficult time especially with words with double letters in them.Have I ever mentioned police chief Bagina, hailing from the part of the country which traditionally pronounces V as B?
Oh, I just learned he died in 2017. That's sad.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in The Belt Onion club:
I was told that in Russian, using the equivalent of sir/madam (gospodin/gospozha) sounds really really weird. Instead, some form of [man|boy]/[woman|girl] is used when addressing strangers (ie getting their attention) depending on age. But it's been nearly 20 years, so I can't say for sure. Or for sure exactly what words are used.
One of my teachers of Russian language said that "Djevuschka" (girl/young lady) is theoretically used for young women, but in practice for anyone. And recalled a stroy from her stay in Russia, where some over-50-years cafeteria lady insisted on being called that.
Anyway, the proper way to politely address people in Russian language was always the original Germanic way, ie by patronym.
Realizing it's been 20 years since I was over there originally makes me feel even more .
Yeah, it's over 20 years since my last Russian lesson, too...
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@Kamil-Podlesak But likely after the fall of the sovyet union... това́рищ!
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@Carnage said in The Belt Onion club:
@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
@dcon said in The Belt Onion club:
@Gąska said in The Belt Onion club:
Of course, this means you
may have also been born yesterdayare using Linux.
Hey, it's control characters in names that cause fear. Spaces are an annoyance.
Or, for that matter, things which aren't characters at all. Assuming random byte strings are valid UTF8 is dangerous.
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@hungrier maybe he listed it twice because it's twice as retarded
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@hungrier said in The Belt Onion club:
Finnish, [...], Suomi
Isn't that the same?
I may have misspelt one of them, which is the native language of the semi-nomadic reindeer herders of northern Sweden, Norway and Finland. And maybe over into Russia too.
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@dkf said in The Belt Onion club:
I may have misspelt one of them, which is the native language of the semi-nomadic reindeer herders of northern Sweden, Norway and Finland. And maybe over into Russia too.
You’re thinking of Sámi.
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@dkf said in The Belt Onion club:
@hungrier said in The Belt Onion club:
Finnish, [...], Suomi
Isn't that the same?
I may have misspelt one of them, which is the native language of the semi-nomadic reindeer herders of northern Sweden, Norway and Finland. And maybe over into Russia too.
That's several languages, not a single one though.
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@boomzilla said in The Belt Onion club:
I mean, probably the only good thing this whole year was having sea shanty playing on the radio. So, I guess there's weirder things...
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Literally.
We are the Association of Geriatric Editors, and we hate those other associations even more than we hate the Romans. We hate the Association of Geriatric Editors the most — oh, wait, we are the Association of Geriatric Editors!
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@boomzilla I don't think anyone would include me in "young people" anymore, but I have no clue what this is about.
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@nerd4sale it produced things like https://www.mediaevalbaebes.com/ as a contemporary genre.
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@Arantor
Oh I thought we where back full circle in the first lockdown doing bardcore
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@Luhmann why stop there? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx-x_1lIXh4
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@boomzilla slow down with this shitposting or you'll die of dysentery!
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@Gąska too late, the party’s already dead.
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