Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea
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Maybe not a perfect fit for this thread, but at least it's funny:
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@boomzilla said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
Trinidad rum, neat. Go.
This has got to be a hoax tho. Dude says to put a Stella on ice. Maybe in ice? But on ice?
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Dyson Nunquam.
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@boomzilla Hello, human-bait.com? I'd like to volunteer a large group of Texas legislators for your project. No, they're not in Texas at the moment; they hiding in Washington, DC, but I'm sure they'll be back by fall. Hm, that "strong work ethic" thing might be a tiny problem, though.
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@HardwareGeek said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
human-bait.com
Satisfied at the result of visiting said page.
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@boomzilla I swear you've posted this one before...
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@Tsaukpaetra was the repost a good idea, bad idea or evil idea?
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@boomzilla said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
@Tsaukpaetra was the repost a good idea, bad idea or evil idea?
Now do this post itself.
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Pretty sure it's not a good idea.
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@Benjamin-Hall Wrong thread, because this is definitely an evil idea.
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@JBert said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
@Benjamin-Hall Wrong thread, because this is definitely an evil idea.
But it's a good evil idea.
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This is the Colin Furze of music and electronics:
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@JBert Without watching it, I can tell you confidently that goes in the evil category.
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@HardwareGeek They're not all on at the same time (well, not unless the activation button remains pressed) and are meant to be placed in a long line, which does spread out the effect a bit.
Still, there's no arguing about bad taste.
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@JBert he also did the Furby Organ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYLBjScgb7o
Weird shit aside, there's a lot of good videos on his channel too.
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@JBert said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
spread out the effect
Filed under: Making a bad thing worse
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@loopback0 Ok, that's nightmarish.
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@JBert said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
This is the Colin Furze of music and electronics:
I thought
Parking Lot ExperimentBowl Of Fire, Richard James, and Mr. Bungle were in a three-way tie for that. Nifty. But I will never turn my sound on.
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@Gribnit said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
But I will never turn my sound on.
It doesn't sound anything like as horrifying as that damned Furby organ.
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Coding Jenga: an educational game where players take turns removing type declarations from code and, through the magic of type inference, the code must still compile.
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@Gąska said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
Coding Jenga: an educational game where players take turns removing type declarations from code and, through the magic of type inference, the code must still compile.
Hm, implementation might be a problem. You need a big enough codebase for the outcome to be slightly unknown, but small enough that the compilation is fast.
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@PotatoEngineer said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
Hm, implementation might be a problem.
Just disable optimization for the purposes of the game.
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@PotatoEngineer you don't need full compilation, just type check. Having written several type inferences myself, I can tell you type check alone is very fast compared to everything else an optimizing compiler does.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A_vfXvIxg8&list=PLWpbmrHCXcIHlFLBRfgGWlYJdRIy0MBq8&index=17
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@Gąska said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
Coding Jenga: an educational game where players take turns removing type declarations from code and, through the magic of type inference, the code must still compile.
But which language, and what code-base to have enough superfluous type declarations to make it interesting?
Haskell comes to mind, but that one can generally infer all types, so you can remove all type declarations and it's unlikely to stop compiling. But most other languages infer little enough that you can't remove almost anything.
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@Bulb said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
@Gąska said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
Coding Jenga: an educational game where players take turns removing type declarations from code and, through the magic of type inference, the code must still compile.
But which language, and what code-base to have enough superfluous type declarations to make it interesting?
Haskell comes to mind, but that one can generally infer all types, so you can remove all type declarations and it's unlikely to stop compiling. But most other languages infer little enough that you can't remove almost anything.
Java perhaps? Especially an old code base from before type inference, so everything everywhere is explicit in type.
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@boomzilla Are they going to reimplement all the classic WordPress vulnerabilities?
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@dkf Seems that no. The front-end is in react, which I believe does have a proper template engine that escapes by default, so while plugins can always add vulnerabilities, the risk should be somewhat lower.
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@Bulb said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
The front-end is in react, which I believe does have a proper template engine that escapes by default
Lolnope.
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@Gąska …
… I am pretty sure both Angular and Vue templates are typed, so if you output string, it will be escaped by default, and you have to explicitly construct a HTML fragment if you mean that (and there are still some filters so you have to explicitly allow things like scripts).
If react does not have typed templates doing the same, then … why by Eris is anybody using it‽
Side-note: One customer was recently holding a prototype shoot-out between angular and react to choose which one to use for the next generation of the product. Our front-end developer who took part in it said he thinks its stupid way to decide, and that he prefers angular because it might be more complex to start with, but his, and from what he read other people's too, experience is that it can be kept reasonably modular while react tends to devolve in utter mess once the project grows bigger.
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@Bulb React doesn't have templates at all. At least not the kind you see in other frameworks. HTML code is written inline with JS code, and JS code is written inline with HTML code. When it comes to escaping - yes, all strings values are escaped by default when inserted into HTML. But you can disable it. If the goal is Wordpress clone, then there's high likelihood they're gonna disable it.
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BTW - what's the point of Wordpress clone in 2021? Nobody makes self-hosted blogs anymore.
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Why by Nuggan does anybody use that? That's a purple abomination. With yellow polka-dots.
I mean, isn't it actually harder and less efficient to do this untyped than typed client-side? Because the way angular and vue do it is that they have a template that is loaded as HTML into (not sure whether separate or hidden) DOM and then it is walked and manipulated as DOM. Which means things won't accidentally be interpreted differently than intended, and also makes it easier to only update what changed on screen to reduce reloading, flickering and jelly-potato.
I was never fan of PHP and spitting structured data with text templates in general. I always considered Genshi to be one of few sane template systems for (X)HTML. I was glad to see the templates in Angular be type-safe (while using the moustachey syntax does make them more convenient than Genshi). You just gave me another reason to not want to touch react with a 32.8 foot pole.
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@Gąska said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
BTW - what's the point of Wordpress clone in 2021? Nobody makes self-hosted blogs anymore.
WordPress is not about blogs any more. Many smaller companies have their whole web built on that (or Joomla).
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@Bulb said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
Why by Nuggan does anybody use that? That's a purple abomination. With yellow polka-dots.
I mean, it does feel kinda nice. It's almost like WPF or other XML-based desktop UI. You just have to stop thinking about it as HTML. It's just you and an arbitrary tree of components.
If only I could also forget about CSS...
I mean, isn't it actually harder and less efficient to do this untyped than typed client-side?
There's no typed, there's no untyped. There's no templating at all. The entire paradigm is different. You don't write HTML, you build components tree, and components render themselves and re-render when needed at the appropriate position in the DOM tree in allegedly efficient manner. I don't know how to compare it to Angular's or Vue's concepts. Mostly because I know neither Angular nor Vue. But you can't think of a React app as either a templating engine nor as PHP-style HTML source generator. It works differently.
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@Bulb said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
@Gąska said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
BTW - what's the point of Wordpress clone in 2021? Nobody makes self-hosted blogs anymore.
WordPress is not about blogs any more. Many smaller companies have their whole web built on that (or Joomla).
But do small companies even make websites anymore? They all seem to only have a Facebook page.
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@Gąska Around here most does.
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@Gąska said in Not sure if good idea, bad idea or evil idea:
There's no typed, there's no untyped. There's no templating at all. The entire paradigm is different. You don't write HTML, you build components tree, and components render themselves and re-render when needed at the appropriate position in the DOM tree in allegedly efficient manner. I don't know how to compare it to Angular's or Vue's concepts. Mostly because I know neither Angular nor Vue. But you can't think of a React app as either a templating engine nor as PHP-style HTML source generator. It works differently.
Writing HTML is also building a component tree, and you define custom components in Angular or Vue that behave just as the built-in HTML ones. Those components still render themselves. But they do it in two phases—they expand to DOM fragments, and then the values are substituted.
Typed means that if you say a component (either custom or plain
<div>
; not much difference) should show user's name, and user's name is a string, it cannot be interpreted as a HTML fragment, but will show as text no matter what special characters it contains. If you want a HTML fragment, you must explicitly build a HTML fragment and the builder by default scrubs anything even a bit risky and you have to whitelist it.Untyped means the component builds a string and that string is then interpreted.
Unfortunately I don't know how the react components actually work inside.
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@Bulb the problem is that JSX files that React uses get transpiled into plain JS, and this transpilation is where the magic happens. Also, React server generates the initial page content server-side using the same code that client-side uses to generate updates, except it obviously cannot be the same code because one is building an HTML document and the other is using DOM API.
But the bottom line is that all non-hardcoded text gets escaped unless you specifically do the opposite by calling whatever the equivalent of
eval()
is in this case.
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@Gąska Well, Genshi also gets compiled to pure python bytecode.
As long as it properly escapes all the variable text unless explicitly evaluated as components it should still be quite a bit safer than PHP.