Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.
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@HardwareGeek said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
and aftermarket entertainment system (that cost 2x what a factory-installed system would have cost).
That's funny, usually the dealer stuff costs a lot more. For example, on my old car, I put in an HD Radio (which doesn't come on any cars standard AFAIK), for about $50 total.
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@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
usually the dealer stuff costs a lot more.
Yeah, it was dealer-installed. But IIRC, it wasn't exactly the same thing that would have been factory-installed, if we had been able to get that, and it wasn't until later that I realized it was something we (probably) could have bought for ourselves and gotten installed elsewhere cheaper.
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@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
<
> Also we've managed to get rid of the Brits but there are still a couple of weirdos who drive on the wrong side of the road which means we still need special cars for, erm, special people </ >Over here you see a lot of special-people's cars that use their brake lights as turn indicators, and generally driving special-people stuff like pick-ups.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@remi said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Also, while I agree with your other post about it probably being a US/EU difference, I disagree that "Europe is way smaller than the US is", overall size is pretty similar.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
live in a modest home
Considering you got what amounts to most other people's life savings in an account for casual everyday upkeep ...
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Done.
Went to 2 dealers. First one was total dick. Second one wanted to sell at $2k above MSRP and I got him down $1k and Xzilion (which is already applied so can't opt out) and upgraded floor mats. I'm a shitty negotiator, I know. And it's the exact build and color I wanted. Went with dealer's financing because I was completely unprepared ( I didn't believe they'd have one in stock, but they did), waiting for paperwork to know exactly how much it'll cost but from the monthly payment I guess it's $1k over cash payment? Anyway, I'm happy for my lesbian vroom vroom, and that's what matters the most.
Thanks everyone for helping me go with my first instinct! 10/10 financial advice.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Went with dealer's financing because I was completely unprepared
I don't know how the loan contracts are written nowadays with regard to prepayment and the like, but when I bought my first car (that I actually bought, rather than being a hand-me-down from parents or other relatives), I also went with the dealer financing, but paid that off in a few days when I arranged financing through my own bank.
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@HardwareGeek I'm only financing a fraction of the car so the whole loan costs me $500. I have better things to do than try save a hundred.
Also, turns out they tried to screw me over with quietly adding extra warranty. I caught that at the last moment, opted out and saved another $1500.
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@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
live in a modest home
Considering you got what amounts to most other people's life savings in
an account for casual everyday upkeepgun vaults ...
Filed under: Life losings
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
GPU cards level bad
It was recently GPU cards level bad, due to COVID and a fire at a electronic key factory, apparently. I think we're recovering now, slowly...
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@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
cars that use their brake lights as turn indicators
That's a moderately common thing in the US. I'm guessing there must be some regulations here that forbid it.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
That said, they have a loyal following of Subaru fans who aren't traditional car enthusiasts, so they must be doing something right.
If you mean lesbians, just say lesbians.
@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Anyway, I'm happy for my lesbian vroom vroom, and that's what matters the most.
I think this is funny, but I'd be more satisfied if I knew why I'm laughing.
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@topspin Might be related to those upgraded carpets
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@Polygeekery
It's hard to size these things without a banana-> IF your car is made in Europe then moving it within Europe is 'easy'. Certainly within EU, it's the f*cking reason we invented that monstrosity
-> It is common to buy a new car with a loan or financing plan but is also common to make a down payment. Heck, financing by the seller is still a relatively 'new' thing. Getting a car loan at your bank is still common practice.
-> People around here are not expecting to drive out with a car right away. Even if you buy one that is 'on stock' you'll typically have to wait days. The buyers expectations are really different ... If you expect to have to wait ... so it's easier for the seller to go from 'a week' to 'a month' or more and still actually make a sale.
-> Walking away from an ordered item seems less an issue. Possibly also because how financing is done, eg it might require more 'work' to set up or abandon it.
-> Independent garages exist, independent dealer chains exist but majority is sold through a sales point linked to one brand or possibly one manufacturer, like VW/Audi/Skoda/Seat, BMW/Mini, Renault/Dacia. Crossing those is less common. This gives the buyer the idea he's buying directly with the manufacturer and might ease up
-> Stocks are almost inexistence at local dealers. They typically have a few showroom models and some test/temp cars and that is it.
-> Company cars. Full stop. In
the new car market is dominated by companies buying leasing cars for their employees. As mentioned a few months waiting time is generally no issue. Worst case the employee is offered a temp car. The employee has a car, the employer pays a fixed cost so they don't care, the leasing company, dealership and manufacture all have their sale, ... low risk of anybody backpedaling and even if they do ... company cars are bog standard and often in a limited color pallet so it's easy to sell the car anyway.
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@dkf said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
cars that use their brake lights as turn indicators
That's a moderately common thing in the US. I'm guessing there must be some regulations here that forbid it.
Brake lights must be red.
Turn signals must be amber.
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@PleegWat said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Of course, as a consumer in the EU you can cancel such a contract in the first two weeks without consequences (and your down payment back)
That only applies to purchases made through the internet or phone. And with exemptions for perishable goods, and customized goods and services.
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@dkf said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
cars that use their brake lights as turn indicators
That's a moderately common thing in the US. I'm guessing there must be some regulations here that forbid it.
Yes there is. All EU cars MUST have yellow turn signals. No similar law in the USA.
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@Luhmann said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
financing by the seller is still a relatively 'new' thing.
In Poland, financing by dealer has been a thing for as long as there's been car dealerships. Which is about 20 years. Also, lease-to-own is very popular among self-employed due to tax laws (you can't write off 100% of car purchase in one year, but you can write off 100% of lease payment).
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
All EU cars MUST have yellow turn signals. No similar law in the USA. Or BMW.
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@Applied-Mediocrity let me rephrase. It's disallowed to have non-yellow turn signals.
Fun fact: in Poland, it's perfectly legal to have no fog lights, but it's illegal to have broken fog lights.
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@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
if I knew why I'm laughing.
Human laughter develops from primate territorial warning screams. Laughter is part of your brain frothing over while the rest avoids insanity. Comedy is not funny.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dkf said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
cars that use their brake lights as turn indicators
That's a moderately common thing in the US. I'm guessing there must be some regulations here that forbid it.
Yes there is. All EU cars MUST have yellow turn signals. No similar law in the USA.
It's also specifically forbidden in the EU to combine the stop lamps and indicators into the same unit.
Stop lamps and direction-indicator lamps are not permitted to be reciprocally incorporated.
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@HardwareGeek said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@loopback0 said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
reciprocally incorporated.
Lawyer speak for
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@loopback0 said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
It's also specifically forbidden in the EU to combine the stop lamps and indicators into the same unit.
Stop lamps and direction-indicator lamps are not permitted to be reciprocally incorporated.
It appears one may forcibly include the other.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@dkf said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
cars that use their brake lights as turn indicators
That's a moderately common thing in the US. I'm guessing there must be some regulations here that forbid it.
Yes there is. All EU cars MUST have yellow turn signals. No similar law in the USA.
There is a law in the US that leads to the combination in the first place. It sets a minimum surface area the indicator and brake lense has to have. This makes it impractical / ugly to have both at the same time.
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@Deadfast It is possible to have both red and amber lenses, and many cars have them. However, it costs a few pennies more to mold 3 colors of plastic (amber, red, colorless) rather than 2 (red, colorless), so many cars don't.
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@HardwareGeek I think you'll find that it's actually the aesthetics that are the problem.
The EPLLA requirement is 50cm2 per lens which is just not compatible with modern sleek looks. It's easier to design the light for the worldwide market which doesn't have this outdated requirement and then delete the separate indicator lens for the US market.
I believe that with some European imports this is even done on the software level. The amber LEDs are physically still there, just disabled in the body module.
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Some nickles worth of free advice:
I want to buy Subaru Legacy. It's an AWD sedan, it looks nice, it's fairly cheap, it has lots of nice features such as heated side mirrors or huge ass center display, and 180HP is enough for me, a casual driver. A brief look over competitors in the same segment didn't reveal any other cars that have or are close to having all those qualities. Did I miss something? Are there better choices than Legacy?If you want AWD and saftey scuba-rus are the way to go.
I want to buy it new. it seems used prices aren't much lower than new, so buying second hand seems pointless. Am I making a mistake?New vs used is the usual how much did you loose driving off the lot. If you want to maximize savings, buy used. If you want newest new toy? Buy new.
I want to buy it soon. According to the internet, now is a very bad time to buy cars in general, although I couldn't find any actual data confirming that. Just how bad is the market currently? GPU cards level bad, lumber level bad, or just typical 2-5%-compared-to-last-year level bad? Is there any point to waiting?Also, I want it blue. For a Subaru, blue Legacies are surprisingly rare in dealers' stock, it seems based on the websites. Do dealers order custom builds? Is it a good idea to ask a dealer for a custom build? Is there any room for negotiation after that? Or is it better to just order online from the manufacturer's website?
Dealers should allow you to "order" from them. From what I've seen, color stock is basically a crap-shoot given chip shortage. So if color is a blocker, have the dealer order otherwise just take what they have that you want. If you "order" you will be waiting a while.
Thanks in advance for any helpful info.
Edit: Also, this car has CVT transmission. How much pain in the ass is it going to be? The internet can't seem to agree on it - it either works flawlessly or it's utter garbage.
The sucba-ru CVTs dont seem much worse than other CVTs but I've been driving a Ford Hybrid-CVT for 8 years so take that for what it should be worth.
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Got home from the dealer. A nice 3 hour drive, and I fell in love with this car. Adaptive CC is the best - most of the way I only touched the wheel and nothing else. The 11" screen is not as cool as I thought, since Android Auto is constrained to ~16:9 horizontal. And the best part - because of the impact my younger sister would have on insurance premium, I have a solid reason to never let her borrow it!
The only problem is
volume control. The ingenius software developers of Subaru decided that everybody wants to adjust radio volume and navigation volume independently. So if you turn up radio, navigation becomes inaudible until you change it too, and if you turn dow radio, navigation becomes ear rape. Only a person who's never driven a car could come up with that. It seems to be a common problem in all Subarus since at least 2019.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Got home from the dealer. A nice 3 hour drive, and I fell in love with this car. Adaptive CC is the best - most of the way I only touched the wheel and nothing else. The 11" screen is not as cool as I thought, since Android Auto is constrained to ~16:9 horizontal. And the best part - because of the impact my younger sister would have on insurance premium, I have a solid reason to never let her borrow it!
The only problem is
volume control. The ingenius software developers of Subaru decided that everybody wants to adjust radio volume and navigation volume independently. So if you turn up radio, navigation becomes inaudible until you change it too, and if you turn dow radio, navigation becomes ear rape. Only a person who's never driven a car could come up with that. It seems to be a common problem in all Subarus since at least 2019.Yeah, also phone has a separate volume control too. Or at least it had in my subs.
I always just turn off navigation audio, so it never bothered me but if you want it I can understand how annoying that could be.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
he ingenius software developers of Subaru decided that everybody wants to adjust radio volume and navigation volume independently.
That's pretty common IME, and is how I prefer it.
If I have people in the car then the music is turned down but the satnav left at the normal volume.
If I'm on my own and want the music loud then the satnav stays the same volume.
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@dangeRuss said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
That's funny, usually the dealer stuff costs a lot more. For example, on my old car, I put in an HD Radio (which doesn't come on any cars standard AFAIK), for about $50 total.
All of that has become so much more difficult with modern vehicles.
For instance, GM vehicles. A lot (all?) of them come with OnStar. Which works with the radio. So to do it "legally" (not really an issue of legality, per se, but more an issue of "not defeating any 'safety' features) you have to have a head unit that will integrate with OnStar and purchase an expensive dongle to be able to do so.
Luxury vehicles, which used to be one of the largest market segments for aftermarket stereos, now their head units are sharply integrated into the entire car. Integrated to the point that on some of them replacing the stereo with anything non-factory is essentially impossible. Of course, now they come with really good stereos, so it is much less of a thing than it used to be.
In my early 20's I was like really into car stereos. I used to be one of those retarded youths that would spend more on the stereo than the car, or at least nearly so. Fortunately, I was not one of those retarded youths that had a super bass-ey system and wanted to make sure everyone within a quarter mile knew so. I had all the best stuff from Alpine, JL Audio, Kenwood Excelon, Precision Power, Infinity, you name it. I installed systems on the side for others who saw my vehicle and wanted something similar. Myself and two friends had a small side business doing that. Well, the first time I nearly started my own business one of those friends and I almost started a car stereo shop. I ended up moving before we got serious enough but he ended up going through with it and was moderately successful at it for a while.
I spoke to him a few years ago and the level of integration that modern cars have ended up killing the market for where he made the most money. All that was left was the low-end and the kids with champagne tastes and tap water budgets. He closed up shop. Too much work for too little margin with too much overhead.
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@topspin said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
live in a modest home
Considering you got what amounts to most other people's life savings in an account for casual everyday upkeep ...
If I spent it all on my house then it would not have been there. Hence, proof that I live in a relatively modest home.
For now.
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@HardwareGeek said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I don't know how the loan contracts are written nowadays with regard to prepayment and the like, but when I bought my first car (that I actually bought, rather than being a hand-me-down from parents or other relatives), I also went with the dealer financing, but paid that off in a few days when I arranged financing through my own bank.
I don't think much has changed. When I helped my MIL purchase her last car it was somewhat similar to @Gąska in that we did not expect to purchase that day except in her case it was such a good deal that she did not want to pass it up. But the money she was going to spend on it was currently invested and not "next day" liquid. So she financed it and paid it off before the first payment came due. The salesperson was super happy because they get a small spiff based on financing and it matters fuckall if the finance company ever makes a dime. Bit of a perverse incentive structure there.
Same goes for dealers, BTW. They get paid for all that stuff right away with no regard for whether the lease, finance, warranty, insurance, whatever company actually makes any money. No incentive to write good deals. Just to get them signed off on.
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@Gąska said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Went with dealer's financing because I was completely unprepared
Nothing wrong with dealer financing. Last time I bought a car, I went in with a pre-approved loan from my bank. They spent like an hour in the back room trying to beat it because dealerships now often make more money on the finance origination than the sale itself.
They actually couldn't quite match the rate I had, so they knocked a few dollars off the vehicle price (which we had already negotiated down) to make the payment and term the same. They probably made 500 to 1000 on the loan origination and gave me back 200 of it, so they still came out ahead.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
spiff
Localizable. Doxxy.
On topic, the last car I bought was cash on the barrelhead, it's still running. Hondas are fairly durable.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
The salesperson was super happy because they get a small spiff based on financing and it matters fuckall if the finance company ever makes a dime. Bit of a perverse incentive structure there.
The finance company has a contract with the dealer that ensures they always make some money, less than the full terms of the loan, but they arn't going to be paupers either.
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@Jaime said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
They probably made 500 to 1000 on the loan origination and gave me back 200 of it, so they still came out ahead.
You're probably about right.
For base level cheap cars, the dealership typically makes more money off selling the loan than the car itself. Like a super cheap Chevy Spark, they might only make $200 on selling the car, $500 on the loan. If the person has crappy credit, they might make $750 or more.
The other secret of car dealers, they make way more on leases than purchases. Like, a lot more. 50% more for cheaper cars, up to 200% more for some models.
More money is made in the leasing and finance offices than directly on the sales floor. The sales floor is a funnel to get you to where they make the real money.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Fortunately, I was not one of those retarded youths that had a super bass-ey system and wanted to make sure everyone within a quarter mile knew so.
Going by what Da Yoof do these days, that sort of stereo would count as weak sauce. If it's not dominating the sonic landscape for at least a square mile, it's not worthy of the name (or so I guess by the racket they make). Sometimes it's even enough to drown out the din made by the de-tuned exhaust system… </
>
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@dkf said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Fortunately, I was not one of those retarded youths that had a super bass-ey system and wanted to make sure everyone within a quarter mile knew so.
Going by what Da Yoof do these days, that sort of stereo would count as weak sauce. If it's not dominating the sonic landscape for at least a square mile, it's not worthy of the name (or so I guess by the racket they make). Sometimes it's even enough to drown out the din made by the de-tuned exhaust system… </
>That's just engineering improvements. Half my high-school woodshop class was building whole-trunk hardwood(!) bass resonating chambers.
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@Dragoon said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
The finance company has a contract with the dealer that ensures they always make some money, less than the full terms of the loan, but they arn't going to be paupers either.
I'm not certain if you are actually disagreeing with me or not. But anything that happens after the loan or lease is finalized in no way changes what the dealer makes on the loan or lease itself. I can't remember exact wording of our discussion but when I brought up loans and such to my dealer friend (more correctly, he is the father of one of our best friends) the gist of it was something like:
"Do you make any residuals or anything off of loans or leases or anything like that?"
"No, we get paid a set amount based on the terms of the loan and it is all paid right away, no residual income or anything like that. It would be nice if they did that. Maybe. I guess it would depend on whether people pay or default."
"If they do default or whatever?"
"We submit the purchaser's information and the loan company decides whether to loan to them and what the terms will be. That is all their risk and liability. It's not my problem. If they sign the agreement and never make a payment, we still get paid. I don't even know how they would ever keep all the loans straight if they did decide to pay residuals. We sold $550 million in cars last year. Just us alone it would be a nightmare to try and calculate it all or for us to even have any idea if their numbers are right."
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@Gribnit said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
That's just engineering improvements. Half my high-school woodshop class was building resonating chambers.
I just realized that I am old enough that I used to manually calculate bandpass enclosure dimensions and all that. I bet they have software to do that for them now. Kids these days don't know how good they have it.....
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
I bet they have software to do that for them now.
This may constitute one of the engineering improvements.
Kids these days don't know how good they have it
Well, to be fair, I don't think they were calculating it then either.
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@Gribnit said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Well, to be fair, I don't think they were calculating it then either.
Fair enough, most people just built a box that would fit and did not care whether it was in any way optimal for the space or drivers.
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@Polygeekery said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
@Gribnit said in Buying a car, tell me what's wrong with me.:
Well, to be fair, I don't think they were calculating it then either.
Fair enough, most people just built a box that would fit and did not care whether it was in any way optimal for the space or drivers.
The optimized term in that clade, from observations, was wood selection time requirement. Calculation may have been done mentally since the algorithm was never explicated, but this was maximized effectively, orders of magnitude beyond chance.
I built useless shit, like a winerack and a cutting board. Easily foisted off
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@Dragoon I am not going to watch the video right now, but based on Ed Bolian being in it and me knowing he used to sell Lamborghinis I can only say that what I said could easily fall apart at the extremes of the market.
Are you financing a vehicle that is well into the six figure department? Well, for starters, that is fucking retarded. Also, those financing arrangements could very well be extremely different than your average car loan.
Same likely goes for buy-here-pay-here types of places which now most of them externally finance their liabilities on the vehicles or for larger chains essentially operate their own banks.
