Aquiring an automobile
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Due to circumstances I have started looking at getting a car again. While my daily commute is conveniently servicable by bus, outside of office hours buses tend to be rather shit, which is limiting. And with me having my medical issues a car would be useful to remove stuff like carrying groceries home.
Also, my mom having more old age issues means she needs more car help too, and having to rent a car every two months to help her out is starting to become a bit uneconomical for us both I feel. And annoying to sort out at that.
But the problem is that cars are not an area of interest of mine, so I know very little about them. I just want something small and cheap that can carry me and occasionally others around, along with minor baggae. But modern convenience features would also be nice, which is a reason to look at a new car and not something from 10+ years ago.
For the record my current (non-working) car is a '99 hatchback Ford Mondeo that has rusted to the point of needing very expensive repairs, which I feel is not worth it. Which is why I am looking at getting that towed to the nearest car recycling facility.
There is also of course the
to modern car electronics option and getting a Lada (yes, we do have a Lada dealership near here) to have something I can repair myself without issues. I, in a streak of irony, know my way around a car engine.So, um, any tips on what could be a good car? Cheap and reliable. Mixed driving. Some modern convenience features, like backing camera/sensors. Optionally 4WD, because northern Sweden being what it is.
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@Atazhaia Don't worry to much. I drove my old Toyota Corolla till repairs became too expensive (17 years, 270,000 km). Then did a look at the second-hand cars available at the car dealers nearby.
Since I sometimes transport my bicycle in the car, that set the minimum size: try to get it into the boot. Then did a simple test tour: drive it from the dealer to my home, and try to park it in the parking position at the house (that's a little complicated, some 15% incline on the road nearby, everything uneven, ...). Worked. Drove back to the dealer, and bought it (Hyundai i30). Still works reliably.
Due to the health issues you mentioned, you may also look for a high seat position. Best have your mother take a seat in the car when you test it.
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@Atazhaia I'll second @BernieTheBernie's opinion. Don't worry too much and pick a car based on whether you like it (the seat position, the field of view, whatever matters to you...) rather than trying to get "the best" car. That doesn't mean anything anyway given how individual preferences vary.
I also second @Luhmann's opinion, Dacia is actually quite good and cheap. The Duster has a 4WD trim and it apparently compares quite favourably against much more expensive but otherwise comparable cars. It's not fancy at all but it may have the few gizmos that you want (I'm pretty sure it must have backing sensors and maybe even camera, since IIRC those are going to be mandatory on new cars in future regs?).
A few years back, Skoda was similarly slightly under-priced compared to other brands, and of reasonable quality (if basic, again), but I think that recently they've become similar to everyone else.
Other than that, try going to a large used-cars dealer to try and sit in as many models as you can to weed out those that you just don't like. Even without test-driving them (which is the obvious next step), it should reduce your options to a few models.
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VW Golf unless AWD is super important (as the Golf only comes in AWD on the high end/performance version).
It's the best all-rounder, it's reliable, it's pretty practical and well designed/engineered.
Alternatively Ford Focus or Hyundai i30, but the Golf is (IMO) the best in that category.
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How expensive are those occasional car rentals? How much is the goal to replace the rentals vs the other stuff you mentioned? If the primary goal is replacing the car rentals and the other stuff is a bonus buying a not-total-crap car ($5000-$10,000) may not be worth it. If all reasons together are equally why you want to do it then it seems a car in that price range would be worth it.
I'm also not a car person so I can't help suggest a car to get so I chipped in a bit with some financial considerations. Good luck!
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The one piece of car advice I can give is this: when buying used you should line up a mechanic to check out the car before you buy.
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@loopback0 You can also go VW Polo. Slightly smaller, cheaper and still gets things done. Drove one for nine years.
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Try to find one someone died in. The prices run lower and the smell airs out.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Aquiring an automobile:
Since I sometimes transport my bicycle in the car, that set the minimum size
That requires a pretty big car. A smaller car which can be fitted with a bike rack may work out to be cheaper.
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@Atazhaia Subaru Impreza. The only reason I like winters
Mine is 10 years old, 197,000km and very reliable.
But it probably doesn't fit the cheap requirement
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@PleegWat said in Aquiring an automobile:
That requires a pretty big car.
Not really. Fold the back seats down you can get one in a normal sized hatchback. It's even easier if you remove the front wheel.
edit: I do have roof racks for bikes though just to stop the mud getting all over the inside.
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@TimeBandit Depends on how cheap you have to go. Looks like according to carfax, a 2008 Impreza is on the order of 10k or less, at least here in the US. They start new just under 19k, just under 26k for the highest-end 4-door (non-WRX)
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@loopback0 said in Aquiring an automobile:
Not really. Fold the back seats down you can get one in a normal sized hatchback. It's even easier if you remove the front wheel.
Doesn't matter if I take off all four wheels, the car ain't getting any bigger.
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@Atazhaia If you know a good mechanic that has owned a lot of older cars, bring that person to inspect and testdrive cars you're interested in, then you can find something that's a bit dented and rusty that is in good mechanical order but no one else want to touch so you get it cheap. I've gotten cars for free that way and they worked without issues for several years until I gave them away myself to lesser fortunate friends or siblings.
I like Subarus, and for those awd is usually hard to not get, and the ones I've owned have all been very free from problems.But other than that, I avoid French cars because the bad name they have is earned. They tend to not completely break down, but there seems to always be a few annoying things that are wrong with them.
I also avoid German cars, because the quality name they have is unearned. At least anything fancier than economy shitbox, those have few enough parts that they don't break that often. But they are all expensive as fuck to fix when they do break.Owner history is a good thing to check on used cars. If the car is 10-15 years old, and have had 15 owners, avoid it. There is probably a reason that everyone got rid of it within a year, it's probably a lemon.
Distance driven matters less than service record as well.
And check model specific issues, some models have really expensive problems that show up at pretty specific mileages, and the current owner may be offloading it before it explodes.Be sure to check the winter tires, if they are ancient, it's a haggling point. Studded tires shouldn't be older than about 5 years, and friction winter tires shouldn't be older than 2. And "åretrunt-däck" is for central Europe, they do not work in Sweden, so if a car has that, haggle the price down enough to fit a set of rims and two sets of tires in the budget.
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@Carnage said in Aquiring an automobile:
Studded tires shouldn't be older than about 5 years
I'm pretty sure studded tires are illegal in a lot of the US, even in Minnesota.
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@mikehurley said in Aquiring an automobile:
@Carnage said in Aquiring an automobile:
Studded tires shouldn't be older than about 5 years
I'm pretty sure studded tires are illegal in a lot of the US, even in Minnesota.
Quick googling says they are legal in some fashion in most states, though only 7 states have unrestricted use. Most have seasonal restrictions.
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@coderpatsy said in Aquiring an automobile:
@mikehurley said in Aquiring an automobile:
@Carnage said in Aquiring an automobile:
Studded tires shouldn't be older than about 5 years
I'm pretty sure studded tires are illegal in a lot of the US, even in Minnesota.
Quick googling says they are legal in some fashion in most states, though only 7 states have unrestricted use. Most have seasonal restrictions.
Of course Minnesota has to have the weirdo laws for something.
From AAA:
MINNESOTA
Studded tires are not permitted, except for nonresidents, who may use them for 30 days. Full-time non-resident students and nonresidents employed within Minnesota are not permitted use of studded tires regardless of vehicle registry.Rural mail carriers may use studded tires under certain conditions between November 1 and April 15.
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@Carnage said in Aquiring an automobile:
But other than that, I avoid French cars [...]
I also avoid German cars [...]I don't really care that much about a specific brand image. Modern cars are, on the whole, pretty similar unless you're really into cars, and more importantly the individual variability between cars of a given model is much, much higher than the average variability between models. In other words, things like:
Owner history is a good thing to check on used cars. If the car is 10-15 years old, and have had 15 owners, avoid it. There is probably a reason that everyone got rid of it within a year, it's probably a lemon.
Distance driven matters less than service record as well.Those matter more than whether it's a brand with a "good" or "bad" reputation.
The presence of the brand in your country is a also a thing that might matter, i.e. will a standard repair shop be familiar with that brand or not (and will spare parts be easy to get). But here as well, if you stick to any major brand (basically, one you see regularly on the roads), you should be OK. Unless you specifically want to get all repairs done at an approved garage (some people do... this makes it slightly easier to get a goodwill gesture from the brand if something goes wrong later, but it's not surefire either, so really, it's up to you), then the dealership network might matter.
And check model specific issues, some models have really expensive problems that show up at pretty specific mileages, and the current owner may be offloading it before it explodes.
When you're down to a specific model, yes, that's worth checking. But remember that those kind of things can be specific to revisions of a model, and sometimes the next (or previous) revision (model-year) hasn't got the issue, so don't bother with that before you're pretty deep down into your search, unless you want to spend hours listing and cross-checking things.
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I have been looking around trying to build a shortlist of cars, not caring about brand. Just wether they have something fitting into my price range is the current priority, and then I'm gonna look into features. And after I have a list of options I can go test drive them. I think 4WD is out of the question for a (cheap) new car, but as I said, that is a bonus feature and not a requirement. Small cars with it are rare. The previously mentioned Lada Niva does have it, but it also lacks fuel economy, will probably have a high tax due to emissions and got a 0 in (car accident) safety.
Based off my neighborhood it looks to very heavily Subaru and Volvo-biased. But Volvo has become more of a "luxury" brand and new Subarus are a bit big and expensive. Also, there are a lot of families that have a need for bigger cars there. Me, living by myself in my house, does not. My sister offered that I could buy her car for cheap (as she's also looking for a new one), which would give me an old station wagon Ford Mondeo. Which has two things I am not looking for in a car: Ford and station wagon.
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@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
I have been looking around trying to build a shortlist of cars, not caring about brand. Just wether they have something fitting into my price range is the current priority, and then I'm gonna look into features. And after I have a list of options I can go test drive them. I think 4WD is out of the question for a (cheap) new car, but as I said, that is a bonus feature and not a requirement. Small cars with it are rare. The previously mentioned Lada Niva does have it, but it also lacks fuel economy, will probably have a high tax due to emissions and got a 0 in (car accident) safety.
Based off my neighborhood it looks to very heavily Subaru and Volvo-biased. But Volvo has become more of a "luxury" brand and new Subarus are a bit big and expensive. Also, there are a lot of families that have a need for bigger cars there. Me, living by myself in my house, does not. My sister offered that I could buy her car for cheap (as she's also looking for a new one), which would give me an old station wagon Ford Mondeo. Which has two things I am not looking for in a car: Ford and station wagon.
Just as an FYI, the government changed the vehicle tax rules recently, and made new cars taxed hard the first few years, so check tax as well.
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@Carnage Yeah, I know about the bonus-malus tax. Which is why low fuel consumption and emissions is one thing I'm looking for. Electric cars are way too impractical up here, or way too expensive if you want something that can actually get longer than the next town over without recharging.
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@loopback0 said in Aquiring an automobile:
VW Golf unless AWD is super important (as the Golf only comes in AWD on the high end/performance version).
It's the best all-rounder, it's reliable, it's pretty practical and well designed/engineered.
Alternatively Ford Focus or Hyundai i30, but the Golf is (IMO) the best in that category.I disagree completely. VW is average quality for a premium price.
Unless you find a very good deal for one, I would rather choose a different brand like Toyota, Ford, or even Opel, etc.Yes, I have had several VWs, and also a Seat (technically a VW).
My best experiences (quality-wise) have been with Toyota (I've had 2), but YMMV.
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@nerd4sale said in Aquiring an automobile:
I disagree completely. VW is average quality for a premium price.
Unless you find a very good deal for one, I would rather choose a different brand like Toyota, Ford, or even Opel, etc.VW Golf has been the best selling car in Europe for years, so Europe disagrees with you
More seriously though...
@nerd4sale said in Aquiring an automobile:
My best experiences (quality-wise) have been with Toyota (I've had 2), but YMMV.
In the smaller/cheaper end of things every Toyota is dreadful.
No-one in their right minds buys a Yaris when the Polo and Fiesta exist, nor a Corolla when the Golf and Focus exist and a pair of rollerskates is better than an Aygo.
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@loopback0 said in Aquiring an automobile:
VW Golf has been the best selling car in Europe for years, so Europe disagrees with you
Proves my point, because people generally don't make sense.
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@loopback0 said in Aquiring an automobile:
nor a Corolla when the Golf and Focus exist
I would trust a Corolla with 100,000km more than a brand new Golf or Focus
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@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
@Carnage Yeah, I know about the bonus-malus tax. Which is why low fuel consumption and emissions is one thing I'm looking for. Electric cars are way too impractical up here, or way too expensive if you want something that can actually get longer than the next town over without recharging.
How far out in the boondocks are you? Next town 400 km away or what?
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@TimeBandit said in Aquiring an automobile:
@loopback0 said in Aquiring an automobile:
nor a Corolla when the Golf and Focus exist
I would trust a Corolla with 100,000km more than a brand new Golf or Focus
I'd trust any of them for that distance
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@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
I have been looking around trying to build a shortlist of cars ...
Honda S2000.
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@Atazhaia I'd be looking at another Ford. VW and the other related brands are nice, but they're expensive to repair in the US. Maybe it's cheaper there.
Toyota and Honda also get a lot of miles.
Also, I'd suggest a more suv like car shape if you're going to be helping your. Mom. It doesn't have to be a tall car, byt more upright seating will be easier to get in and out of. Take her to the test drives.
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@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
Subarus are a bit big and expensive.
According to teh googles, a 2010 Impreza sedan is a whole inch longer than a 2010 Corolla. 2.5 cm longer is too big? Maybe it's different over there, but the differnce in price here for 10-year-old base Impreza vs Corolla isn't that much.
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@loopback0 Although from a price perspective the Aygo is nice, or if wanting the same but cheaper the soon-discontinued Citroën C1 or Peugeot 108 (same car, different brands).
@Rhywden Up here the distance between towns and cities can go up to the 80-100km range. And I don't want to go one town, hope for a charging station and be stuck for an hour charging for every hour driven. And the electric cars that has range are also expensive.
@Captain A compact SUV is also an option, I have been eyeing a few models of those too.
@SirTwist Was looking at the current offerings of Subarus (which is 100% SUV) when I said that. I know there are smaller models if looking at the used market.
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@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
Was looking at the current offerings of Subarus (which is 100% SUV) when I said that. I know there are smaller models if looking at the used market.
They don't offer the Impreza where you are?
Also, the Crosstrek is a crossover, not an SUV. It's just an Impreza which got the suspension raised about 3 inches.
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@TimeBandit said in Aquiring an automobile:
It's just an Impreza which got the suspension raised about 3 inches.
Isn't that the mod they did already for the rally version? Or was stock Impreza already the rally version?
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@TimeBandit said in Aquiring an automobile:
They don't offer the Impreza where you are?
Forester, Outback and XV only.
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@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
@TimeBandit said in Aquiring an automobile:
They don't offer the Impreza where you are?
Forester, Outback and XV only.
Wow, they must have a really low opinion of your region, I'd be insulted on your behalf if it seemed like any fun.
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I like Subaru but watch out:
Autos | Car Reviews | The Star
Latest news, reviews and advice on buying a car, saving gas, electric vehicles, tires and more. Visit Toronto Star Autos for news and trends in vehicles.
This affects a couple of Toyotas and Scions too. Not that you'd wan those, though.
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@Atazhaia If price is important to you, consider the Korean brands. They used to be pretty crap not too long ago but nowadays it's no longer the case. Well, except for the worst of them: Daewoo which got turned into GM Korea (should tell you something about GM).
The good news is that Hyundai and Kia are still trying to shake the stigma so they're competitively priced, despite being pretty good cars. Hyundai especially.
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@TimeBandit said in Aquiring an automobile:
They don't offer the Impreza where you are?
They might have it somewhere out back in the shed if you ask them but as far as the showroom is concerned, they've seemingly gone full SUV mode in Australia too. It's depressing.
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@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
Some modern convenience features, like backing camera/sensors.
How far down the chain of models are those? The last time I was remotely involved in car acquisition, they were definitely a high-end-only feature.
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@dkf From research, they can be found at least as an optional upgrade also on the smaller and cheaper models, so doesn't look like it would be hard to get those on a new car.
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@Captain said in Aquiring an automobile:
I like Subaru but watch out:
Autos | Car Reviews | The Star
Latest news, reviews and advice on buying a car, saving gas, electric vehicles, tires and more. Visit Toronto Star Autos for news and trends in vehicles.
This affects a couple of Toyotas and Scions too. Not that you'd wan those, though.
It's so sad that they stopped using their 3.6L boxer.
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@Gribnit said in Aquiring an automobile:
@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
@TimeBandit said in Aquiring an automobile:
They don't offer the Impreza where you are?
Forester, Outback and XV only.
Wow, they must have a really low opinion of your region, I'd be insulted on your behalf if it seemed like any fun.
People here almost only buy station wagons and SUVs, so no wonder if a small brand just gives up on the other models they have.
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@Captain Note that the issue is with the turbo models only
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@dkf said in Aquiring an automobile:
@Atazhaia said in Aquiring an automobile:
Some modern convenience features, like backing camera/sensors.
How far down the chain of models are those? The last time I was remotely involved in car acquisition, they were definitely a high-end-only feature.
The US has required backup cameras on all new cars for at least the last five or so years.
In Europe, I'd imagine that any car that's also sold in the US at least has the option to be fitted with a backup camera.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear The last time I acquired a car, I got radar for reversing (and also for going forward slowly, useful for parking a large Volvo in a small garage). It's much more audio based than a reversing cam, but it still works fine most of the year.
The exception is high summer, when plants tend to obscure parts of the driveway and the reversing radar can't tell (but I know) that they can be just pushed past. The radar just sees “solid thing!” and goes berserk.
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@dkf A quick search says that a 2018 (or 2019?) EU regulation has mandated backing cameras on new cars from 2022 (or 2024?). So it's safe to assume that most new cars built today will already have them, at least as an extra.
@Atazhaia this thread confirms what I said in my earlier post, don't worry about picking a specific brand/model, you'll find people for and against every single one and there is more variability between individual cars of the same model than between the averages of different models. I still think my suggestion is a better way: go find a large dealer and sit in as many different cars as you can, and only then do your homework on the couple that you like (for whatever random arbitrary reason).
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@dkf said in Aquiring an automobile:
reversing radar
I think it's some ultrasound device, not a radar.
A radar is used for more modern versions of cruise control which adjust the speed when the traffic in front of you gets slow.
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@BernieTheBernie said in Aquiring an automobile:
A radar is used for more modern versions of cruise control which adjust the speed when the traffic in front of you gets slow.
Got that. It's superb in heavy traffic, especially when going through roadworks on the motorway. Set the cruise for the max legal speed for the section and then just concentrate on keeping in the narrowed lane instead of how far away you are from the idiot in front.
