Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks
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@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
I'm assuming the patents aren't about to expire very soon.
Can't be more than 3 or 4 years from expiry. My two previous laptops (current one is a year old) both had magsafe power connectors and I worked each to death over about 6 years apiece of very intensive use. Patent terms (at least for technical patents) are 17 years, so at least 13 years have gone, and I'd bet the patent was awarded at least some time before the point I started paying attention.
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@dkf 2025 according to this
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@dkf said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
And as much as Apple is a bit of a special case, they've (again) demonstrated that switching architectures (or doing multiple) is kinda possible.
They've more experience with this than virtually anyone else in the industry.
With the notable exception of charging interfaces on their phones.
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@dkf Neat. Happy to be proven wrong.
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Meanwhile, drama in colour land –
Apparently the M1 treats all external displays as TVs, sending only a YUV style signal rather than the more common and practical digital format of RGB style channels, and this is causing banding and distortions on people’s expensive, profiled displays. Also you can only connect one.
(this is a few months old but I just heard about it and it’s kinda relevant, so shush)
fake fake real edit: Considering how firmly ingrained Apple is amongst the arty creative
wankercommunity, this seems like a genuinely braindead decision?
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@kazitor said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
fake fake real edit: Considering how firmly ingrained Apple is amongst the arty creative
wankercommunity, this seems like a genuinely braindead decision?Not as braindead as the fact that a large part of that community will buy it anyway.
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@Gąska said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
this seems like a
genuinely braindeaddecision to sell yet another adaptor
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@loopback0 said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
2025 according to this
Not a bad guess on my part then!
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@kazitor said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
Apparently the M1 treats all external displays as TVs
Technically that would be the graphics hardware. I don't know if that's in the same package as the chip (possible I guess, but then why would Apple slip up like this?) but it for sure isn't an issue with the processor itself. It's more like an OS bug.
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@dkf said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
@kazitor said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
Apparently the M1 treats all external displays as TVs
Technically that would be the graphics hardware. I don't know if that's in the same package as the chip (possible I guess, but then why would Apple slip up like this?) but it for sure isn't an issue with the processor itself. It's more like an OS bug.
Source: https://www.anandtech.com/show/16252/mac-mini-apple-m1-tested/3
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And to follow up their benchmarks: ads.
Intel about to lose a major customer: attack them with full force while they still are buying your stuff. Classy.
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@Atazhaia Looking at just the ads in that article, is it just me or is the FUD overly thick? It’s all strawman arguments that have nothing to do with the good or bad points of either architecture.
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@Gurth Yeah. None of the arguments are about how Intel CPUs are better. It's just "On PC you can play more games and have more hardware options." Well, duh. Two things Mac didn't have even when running Intel. Also, Rocket League have been demonstrated as running on M1, so that's a bad example. And if I need touchscreen and stylus for Mac there's always Sidecar that transforms an iPad into a secondary screen/drawing tablet for Mac.
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That's some really low effort baiting by Intel. None of that really is Intel's doing. The tablet mode, touch screen & stylus is largely MS doing (though others have followed), and there are Windows ARM models with the combo as well. (Oh, wait, they don't mention Intel chips, just "PC". Guess Windows ARM counts as a PC.)
Since I still hope that I never ever have to work with an Apple machine again: Intel, AMD, other ARM vendors - please get your shit together. (In case that needs clarification: garbage ads don't count as getting your shit together, they just count as straight up shit.)
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Already the very first line is so retarded:
Only a PC can power scientists and gamers alike.
Let me phrase that more generally: "only a PC can do these n things alike, that mac can do n-1 things of". Which is basically another way of saying "you can't game on a Mac". How many variations of "you can't game on a Mac" do you need to come up with if you don't have any other points to make?
Only a PC offers tablet mode, touch screen and stylus capabilities in a single device.
Have you heard of iPads? "But that's a tablet, so it's not tablet-mode!"
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@topspin said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
Have you heard of iPads? "But that's a tablet, so it's not tablet-mode!"
It's also not a Mac and can't run all native Mac software
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@Jaloopa said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
@topspin said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
Have you heard of iPads? "But that's a tablet, so it's not tablet-mode!"
It's also not a Mac and can't run all native Mac software
Right but it still means that it's not only a PC capable of those things.
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Didn't we already have the stupid PC vs Mac adverts?
All "I'm a Mac I'm a PC" ads Part 1 – 10:28
— MacTechHowTo
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@Jaloopa said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
@topspin said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
Have you heard of iPads? "But that's a tablet, so it's not tablet-mode!"
It's also not a Mac and can't run all native Mac software
Which is also something Intel PCs can't do. So let's put in
Only a Mac can power scientists and run Mac softwre alike.
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@loopback0 yeah, while equally stupid, at least those were funny.
Edit:
Macs come with this power cord that connects magnetically ...
That didn't age well.
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@topspin said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
power scientists
Actually. How much power does a scientist need to run? Because Intel's CPU still go up to 60+W, while Apple's M1 only goes to like 25W.
Filed under: Bigger is better.
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@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
How much power does a scientist need to run?
Polar scientists need lots of power just to not freeze!
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@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
@topspin said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
power scientists
Actually. How much power does a scientist need to run?
Enough to run either a terminal to the cluster or a browser for Jupyter notebooks.
And I don't see Intel dominating the top ten right now:
A64FX
IBM Power System
IBM Power System
Sunway
NVIDIA DGX A100, AMD EPYC 7742 64C
Intel Xeon E5
AMD EPYC 7402
Xeon Gold 6252 24C
Xeon Platinum 8280 28C
Xeon Gold 6248 20C
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@dkf said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
How much power does a scientist need to run?
Polar scientists need lots of power just to not
freezedissolve!
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@topspin Four out of ten isn't that bad, it's more than anybody else. But if we want to bash Intel, all four of those are in the bottom half, and none in the top 5. The only x86 in the top 5 is AMD, and arguably those guys get a fair chunk of their flops from the Ampere GPUs. Then again so do number 2 and 3 -- not sure why one would focus on the weirdo IBM Power CPUs.
OTOH, if look at the top 100 ... I'm too lazy to count, but Xeon-something is by far the most common CPU to appear.
Also, NVIDIA apparently owns #5 in that list.
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@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
@topspin Four out of ten isn't that bad, it's more than anybody else.
all four of those are in the bottom half, and none in the top 5.
OTOH, if look at the top 100 ... I'm too lazy to count, but Xeon-something is by far the most common CPU to appear.
It's only fair to cherry-pick the data to make Intel look bad.
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@topspin As I like to point out. Intel only makes Co-Processing Units these days anyway, to support the General Processing Units that are doing the actual heavy lifting. So who cares about cpus?
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@cvi very clever.
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@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
OTOH, if look at the top 100 ... I'm too lazy to count, but Xeon-something is by far the most common CPU to appear.
Part of that'll be the legacy of the Xeon being a high power processor for the time. Bringing HPC clusters online is a lot of work.
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@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
How much power does a scientist need to run?
About 8.4MJ (2000 kCal) / day.
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@topspin said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
How many variations of "you can't game on a Mac" do you need to come up with if you don't have any other points to make?
They could rehash that old "our CPUs enhance all you see, also feelz & EXPERIENCE!".
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@HardwareGeek said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
@cvi said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
How much power does a scientist need to run?
About 8.4MJ (2000 kCal) / day.
I make that just under 100W sustained power
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Intel, not being afraid to compare native performance to emulated, said:
Using emulated versions of Photoshop and Lightroom Classic on the Apple M1 system, Content Aware Fill and Photo Merge HDR Panorama workloads are nearly 1.5x faster on Intel 11th Gen processors (vs Apple M1)
Adobe just said:
Well, how the turntables...
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@topspin said in Lies, damned lies and Intel benchmarks:
Well, how the turntables...
Not very surprising for an application that's quite strongly bottlenecked by memory bandwidth. (It's been one of the things that it's hardest to do anything about in the hardware; the electrical requirements of a functioning motherboard bus are quite stringent.)