Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxtfNcm45xk
TL;DW: first-party RTX 3080 will have extremely limited availability, and third-party cards are going to be way above MSRP - and it's all by design.
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@DogsB said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
Their reasoning is that we are focusing on rasterization instead of ray tracing.
That's like 99% of what the GPU does, though, right?
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@topspin Right but it's also where the newest Nvidia cards don't do quite as well as the newest AMD cards.
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Woah. Here I thought I was a NVIDIA
fanboilocked-in customer and disliked LTT. But apparently somebody has stronger feelings about that.
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@cvi I hate all video content-crappers on principle alone. Uttery detestable waste of protoplasm. Other than that it's circus not unlike US politics, and none of the clowns are funny or in any other way remotely redeemable for a sack of crap. Hang half of them, drain the waste, then bury them each in a matchbox. Send the rest of these fuh-fuh-fuh yapping twatflap stutterfucks to mines, burn their buildings to the ground, then burn the ground.
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@Applied-Mediocrity Hmm, yes, that does sound like a tad stronger feelings on the topic than I have.
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To quote Linus Torvalds: Fuck Nvidia. At this point I'll be getting a Radeon even if it means losing a few FPS at 4K and having shit RT. Maybe even the overpriced and definitely not worth it 6900 XT to give AMD more money for their R&D into future cards.
Both Nvidia and Radeon acts a bit douchey, but Nvidia really finds new ways to get the douchebag crown. AMD lies about MSRP to look like better value, making me consider Nvidia again, but then Nvidia goes "hold my beer" and finds an even deeper hole to dig themselves into.
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@Atazhaia said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
At this point I'll be getting a Radeon
No you won't. And neither will I.
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Also, the guy from OP is an AMD shill. He has very good insider sources, but he's basically lying on how the launch went and calling everyone who disagrees an idiot. And he smokes cigars in his room. Who the fuck smokes inside in 2020?
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@Gąska said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
@Atazhaia said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
At this point I'll be getting a Radeon if/when they become available sometime in the future, and no longer will be mythical beasts of wonder said to exist but where nobody can actually confirm their existence
No you won't. And neither will I.
FTFR. Although, if I wanna be full
I technically already have an RX 6000 series GPU thanks to having an Xbox Series X. Just not anything I can stick into my PC...Edit: But then again, keeping my Radeon VII over winter would be good, as it's a very powerful space heater....
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@Gąska said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
Who the fuck smokes inside in 2020?
Lots of people. Not sure why this is such a strange thing?
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@Atazhaia said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
Radeon […] having shit RT.
Are they actually worse or is Nvidia just paying everyone to optimize for them again?
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@loopback0 said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
Any TL;DWL, please?
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@dfdub they are actually worse. Nvidia uses way more die space for RT cores at the expense of regular graphics processing. That's also why, if AMD ever comes up with DLSS competitor, it's going to perform much worse too.
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Shortish version
Shitty thing to do, and even shittier as Hardware Unboxed (the reviewer banned) even posted a separate video after his RTX 3080 review praising DLSS 2.0 and saying it's so good that gamers should just enable it by default, and Nvidia even use a quote from him on their DLSS marketing page calling it excellent, and then even shittier because it now puts other reviewers in the situation that if they are positive about RTX/DLSS etc then they'll be accused of bowing to Nvidia, then Linus points out he doesn't even need Nvidia so if they're going to behave like this they can fuck off. He does also at some point out that Nvidia aren't normally that shitty.
Shorter version
Shitty thing to do, even shittier thing to do, even shittier thing to do, fuck you Nvidia
Shortest version
Fuck you Nvidia
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@dfdub Nvidia is a full generation ahead on RT and DLSS and uses dedicated cores and die space for it (because they use the same GPU for gaming and pro, and the tensor cores for pro compute also happens to be good at RT).
Meanwhile, AMD does a different design where the RT cores are added as an extra part of their regular compute units. Which one is the better design only time will tell. AMD does have the advantage that their RT design is used in XSX and PS5 meaning that cross-platform games could very well end up being optimized for their design going forward.
AMD also are working on their own DLSS-like, which iirc is to be designed to be working on any game and not need special dev support like DLSS. May not be as good as they wont be "cheating" by using supercomputers to calculate the upscaling, but just the GPU itself.
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@loopback0 1h 20m? Whoa, pass!
they crossed the line
I’d post the Alex Jones rambling, but you already got enough weird downvotes, not going to risk it.
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@dfdub said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
Are they actually worse or is Nvidia just paying everyone to optimize for them again?
NV has been pretty active active when it comes to RT research for about a decade now.
Edit: To elaborate a bit. NV has always been pretty active when it comes to research in graphics, more so than Intel or ARM. And those two are still way ahead of AMD. Further, at some point a lot of researchers with a track record in RT got hired by NV, switching from e.g. Intel. Ray tracing isn't difficult conceptually. It's not even that much about raw compute, making it play well with the memory subsystem is the hard part.
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@Atazhaia said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
May not be as good as they wont be "cheating" by using supercomputers to calculate the upscaling, but just the GPU itself.
Not sure why you'd think that using a "supercomputer" for training a neural network would be cheating. It's what everybody does - you then distribute the trained network; evaluation is a lot cheaper than training.
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@cvi said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
@Atazhaia said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
May not be as good as they wont be "cheating" by using supercomputers to calculate the upscaling, but just the GPU itself.
Not sure why you'd think that using a "supercomputer" for training a neural network would be cheating. It's what everybody does - you then distribute the trained network; evaluation is a lot cheaper than training.
Especially if the result is better.
Besides, if nothing's doing the learning then it's not a DLSS-like and DLSS 2.0 doesn't need per-game training anyway.
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@cvi said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
Ray tracing isn't difficult conceptually.
Yeah, that much is for sure. If you don't need real-time rendering, it's pretty easy to implement naïve ray tracing for a scene yourself.
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@topspin said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
@loopback0 1h 20m? Whoa, pass!
they crossed the line
I’d post the Alex Jones rambling, but you already got enough weird downvotes, not going to risk it.
What did Alex Jones have to say about NVidia?
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“I DON’T LIKE ’EM PUTTING ray-tracing cores IN THE graphics cards THAT TURN THE FRIGGIN’ rasterisation performance GAY”
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@cvi said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
Not sure why you'd think that using a "supercomputer" for training a neural network would be cheating.
It's cheating because it's pre-computed.
OK, I work in a group that does things like research into how to do live training without the vastly expensive supercomputing step (on the grounds that our brains aren't doing that shit either, not even on the rare occasions that we bother to learn anything, so why should our computers?).
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@dkf To be fair, if you want to draw the parallel to human brains, then training ahead of time isn't exactly unheard of. One number that occasionally gets thrown around is ~10 years/ 10000 hours to become an expert in something.
As amusing as a on-the-fly-DLSS would be, I think few would be particularly willing to have the first few thousand hours of their Cyberpunk 2077 experience look like something created by a three year old getting hold of a box of crayons.
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@dkf said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
@cvi said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
Not sure why you'd think that using a "supercomputer" for training a neural network would be cheating.
It's cheating because it's pre-computed.
OK, I work in a group that does things like research into how to do live training without the vastly expensive supercomputing step (on the grounds that our brains aren't doing that shit either, not even on the rare occasions that we bother to learn anything, so why should our computers?).We don’t usually start every day as a toddler that doesn’t know how to walk or speak, so I’d say that for every day tasks, yes we did a lot (1-2 decades worth) of pre-computed training.
The question is then, do you sell the game as an adult or a baby?
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@dkf said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
more storage and matrix math than is good for you
That's a very low bar.
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@cvi said in Today in conspiracy theories: Nvidia lowering prices but not really:
One number that occasionally gets thrown around is ~10 years/ 10000 hours to become an expert in something.
That might correspond to forming the most enduring (and fastest) kind of connectivity. Basic learning (e.g., where did I put my cup of coffee) seems to be much faster than that.
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My recent research on this topic shows that this market distortion was mostly driven by the Chavez family in conjunction with a specialist software company I am legally enjoined from mentioning.
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@Gribnit oh, when will the dominion of the conspiracist end.
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By golly, I'm glad I didn't have to pay white-market for this laptop - after I changed the password from the canonical password, found it had a decent video card already. Bunch of files on it about some kinda energy company bullshit, but beyond that, a steal.
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