Windows 10 on ARM official support
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@Tsaukpaetra I've already joined. I look forward to some nonsense.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
I am up for the garage BTW. Sounds like fun!!
Not for long.
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@Gąska Any thread that start with Hillary Clinton being compared to Big Foot ... is quite surreal.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@Tsaukpaetra I don't mind some left turns, but people just flat out arguing with me about that you having to actually test on real hardware was a bit surreal.
It might also have something to do with the fact that you were essentially arguing the same thing as "you must test on both a laptop and a desktop for your WPF app".
Which may apply to a very small subset of apps, but for most isn't true...
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@Tsaukpaetra I've already joined. I look forward to some nonsense.
You'll want to learn about muting threads! There's some that even just reading I quickly got to the "I'm outa here!" point. (You can also mute categories)
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@Rhywden it is quite clear you are contrarian of the sake of it. I am not really interested in talking to you if you continue to be difficult for the sake of it.
Really? I wouldn't talk to him if he wasn't.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@Rhywden I am sure there are quite a few losers that want to upset people. They are on every internet forum. You are not unique, clever or original. In fact I find you quite predictable.
Do your best friend.
Here's the fun part: You're currently whining about "attacks" and yet you are the one who just made it personal.
Congrats on the cognitive dissonance you just showed
I also stand corrected: You'll fit in wonderfully.
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@dcon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@sloosecannon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
You'll learn especially that @Polygeekery is a tremendous asshole.
HEY! (We all are)
But we all haven't declared our preferred pronouns as such.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
I am sure there are quite a few losers that want to upset people. They are on every internet forum. You are not unique, clever or original. In fact I find you quite predictable.
Don't mind him, he's just our local version of r/SneerClub.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
developers now have the officially supported SDK and tools for creating 64-bit ARM (ARM64) apps
Now ARM users can have all the same suckage as everyone else.
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@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
Do you think this will be long term?
I see the introduction has gone well. :)
Anywho: current Microsoft has been too flighty for me to want to jump into anything they're pushing. The restart of Windows ARM devices will take a couple more years to sort out. Check back with them after devices with the next Snapdragon chipset (or two) are out and they've fixed the problems that arise.
In the meantime, why not just test with low-end x86/x64-based versions of whatever device types you want to target? If you're looking at a touch application, get one of the netbook-level touchscreen convertibles/tablets you can find online for less than $200. If it works there, it should work in emulation on ARM and you can go native if/when needed.
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Ms have bacome as flakey as google the ladt couple of years. Ive been bitten by their mobile os obsoletion. I wouldn’t expend any effort on arm support.
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@Parody That's what we already told him and look what it got us.
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@Rhywden Ask for opinions, get opinions. It's not our fault that they happen to be similar.
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So, I am a complete novice to the whole ARM ecosystem, and I basically just want to have a working computer that I can remotely debug native ARM/ARM64 apps on from my main computer via the Visual Studio 2019 debugger. All I currently have is a Raspberry Pi 2B or something, and while it does work for remote debugging, it is pitifully slow, and only runs Windows 10 IoT Core. The Microsoft Surface Pro X runs full Windows 10 on an ARM64 processor and even runs x86 apps via emulation, but it is also prohibitively expensive and does a whole lot I do not need. Is there some way I can buy or build my own basic ARM64 computer that can run Windows 10, more powerful than a Raspberry Pi, and not as insanely expensive as the Surface Pro X? Or am I just out of luck until manufacturers start producing more and cheaper Windows 10 ARM64 devices?
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@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
Is there some way I can buy or build my own basic ARM64 computer
Can you use QEMU to emulate it instead?
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@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
Is there some way I can buy or build my own basic ARM64 computer that can run Windows 10, more powerful than a Raspberry Pi, and not as insanely expensive as the Surface Pro X? Or am I just out of luck until manufacturers start producing more and cheaper Windows 10 ARM64 devices?
Apple is likely going to transfer to ARM-based Macs over the next few years, but whether these will fit your definition of “not as insanely expensive as the Surface Pro X” I’m not sure … It would hugely improve the availability of desktop ARM machines powerful enough for full-blown Windows 10, though.
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@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
The Microsoft Surface Pro X runs full Windows 10 on an ARM64 processor and even runs x86 apps via emulation, but it is also prohibitively expensive and does a whole lot I do not need. Is there some way I can buy or build my own basic ARM64 computer that can run Windows 10, more powerful than a Raspberry Pi, and not as insanely expensive as the Surface Pro X? Or am I just out of luck until manufacturers start producing more and cheaper Windows 10 ARM64 devices?
There are other Windows 10 on ARM machines out there; taking a quick peek at Amazon and Best Buy, it looks like refurbs from Lenovo start at $400 and new ones at $600. They probably won't be as nice as the Surface, but they're a heck of a lot cheaper if you just want a machine for testing.
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@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
pitifully slow
Right now, the really big users of remote debugging are people doing embedded work (where ARM is utterly huge). Their programs tend not to be very large because their target computers are pretty small too, and the remote debugging protocols are usually optimised for being able to work over a tiny piece of string and half a tin can onto some weird embedded system, not for talking to essentially a full desktop system at the other end. That's where the real money in remote debugging goes…
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@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
All I currently have is a Raspberry Pi 2B or something, and while it does work for remote debugging, it is pitifully slow, and only runs Windows 10 IoT Core.
Windows 10 on a Pi 2B (1GiB RAM). What did you expect beside it being slow?
Get a Pi 4, it's available with 2, 4 and 8GiB
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@Parody said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
The Microsoft Surface Pro X runs full Windows 10 on an ARM64 processor and even runs x86 apps via emulation, but it is also prohibitively expensive and does a whole lot I do not need. Is there some way I can buy or build my own basic ARM64 computer that can run Windows 10, more powerful than a Raspberry Pi, and not as insanely expensive as the Surface Pro X? Or am I just out of luck until manufacturers start producing more and cheaper Windows 10 ARM64 devices?
There are other Windows 10 on ARM machines out there; taking a quick peek at Amazon and Best Buy, it looks like refurbs from Lenovo start at $400 and new ones at $600. They probably won't be as nice as the Surface, but they're a heck of a lot cheaper if you just want a machine for testing.
Thanks, that was the hint I needed to find one that was suitable. Surprisingly none of them mention "ARM" or "ARM64" in their product pages at all, which is why my previous attempts at searching weren't working well.
@dkf said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
pitifully slow
Right now, the really big users of remote debugging are people doing embedded work (where ARM is utterly huge). Their programs tend not to be very large because their target computers are pretty small too, and the remote debugging protocols are usually optimised for being able to work over a tiny piece of string and half a tin can onto some weird embedded system, not for talking to essentially a full desktop system at the other end. That's where the real money in remote debugging goes…
The debugging wasn't slow at all, it was actually surprisingly fast since it's just over my local network. What was pitifully slow was my poor Pi trying to render a 3D rotating cube from the default template DirectX 11 UWP project in Visual Studio.
@TimeBandit said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
All I currently have is a Raspberry Pi 2B or something, and while it does work for remote debugging, it is pitifully slow, and only runs Windows 10 IoT Core.
Windows 10 on a Pi 2B (1GiB RAM). What did you expect beside it being slow?
Get a Pi 4, it's available with 2, 4 and 8GiB
Err... this hacky mess? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKCHGCOcHis / https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0_kEV-gdtI
Definitely neat, but not what I'm looking for. I will keep an eye on it though...
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@LB_ said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
What was pitifully slow was my poor Pi trying to render a 3D rotating cube from the default template DirectX 11 UWP project in Visual Studio.
Oh yeah. The Pi isn't a high-power graphics monster by any means!
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BTW
@Gąska said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@sweaty_gammon said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
I am up for the garage BTW. Sounds like fun!!
Not for long.
I'm kinda sad that I was right.
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@pie_flavor really? His posts read much more reasonable than lucas1's.
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Fun fact: I'm still not sure which vixen is @accalia. And no, I don't want to know.
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@Gąska for a while, yeah. Until he got drunk, and started drunkposting in the racism thread, and it became blindingly obvious. I think he was previously making a conscious effort to not use his normal sentence structure, and then because he was drunk he forgot to do that.
If you scroll through his last fifty or so posts you'll see it too.
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@Gąska I think it's all of them. Maybe not the explicitly unperverted one.
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@pie_flavor You're right, I'm not an alt.
(I was a mostly-lurker for almost a decade - <100 posts to my name - before creating a new account that didn't use my real name so I could safely participate more. The name was definitely playing off hers, though.)
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@Gąska said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
Fun fact: I'm still not sure which vixen is @accalia. And no, I don't want to know.
Pretty sure all of them except the unperverted one, who is clearly someone distinct. The rest of them are definitely Accalia.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
The name was definitely playing off hers, though
Huh, didn't know that. Makes sense, though
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
You're right, I'm not an alt.
That's good to know. I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one who assumed you were.
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@Gąska said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@pie_flavor really? His posts read much more reasonable than lucas1's.
Yeah, really.
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Once again, turns out the best way to get people to make a thorough explanation of the subject is to say you don't want to know. Thanks a lot, fuckers! Now I will feel bad for forgetting it yet again as it'll inevitably happen!
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@Gąska said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
Once again, turns out the best way to get people to make a thorough explanation of the subject is to say you don't want to know. Thanks a lot, fuckers! Now I will feel bad for forgetting it yet again as it'll inevitably happen!
The trick is reverse reverse reverse wifom.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@Gąska said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
Once again, turns out the best way to get people to make a thorough explanation of the subject is to say you don't want to know. Thanks a lot, fuckers! Now I will feel bad for forgetting it yet again as it'll inevitably happen!
The trick is reverse reverse reverse wifom.
One of the classic blunders?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
The trick is reverse reverse reverse wifom.
Mofiw?
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@Gąska said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
Now I will feel bad for forgetting it yet again as it'll inevitably happen!
It's OK. People like to listen to the sound of their own voices.
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@boomzilla said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
@Gąska said in Windows 10 on ARM official support:
Now I will feel bad for forgetting it yet again as it'll inevitably happen!
It's OK. People like to listen to the sound of their own voices.
Would that me clack of their own keyboards? What if they're on mobile? Is that different?
Ok, I see the point.
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