Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
They sent an email the other day asking the embassy which companies were still flying/planning to fly in the next future to France. The embassy response, apart from standard filler, was two words: "
Company X
." (yes, dot included)Reminds me of a story I read on the internet forever ago. In Polish higher education, there's an informal tradition that students who get very good grades often don't have to write the final exam - but due to how grading works here, it's always only a few people for each course. But the exemption from final exam isn't formalized at all and it's all up to the professor to decide.
So anyway, one time a few students who had A+ grades all semester wanted to capitalize on it. The professor didn't say anything about giving out exemptions, but didn't say anything about not giving them out - so they decided to test their luck and write him an email. It was a long winded email full of formalities and repeating what an honor it would be, how much they'd appreciate it.
The professor replied:
Dear students,
No.
He should be promoted to Dean for his brevity.
He replied. That disqualifies him.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Sumy But in a group of 455 contacts, if not a single person actually contracted it, then you've got one of two cases
- this particular person was an anomaly. By a huge margin.
Why "by a huge margin"? The number 455 doesn't matter, the sample size is 1.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
(unless you can hermetically seal everyone off until a perfect vaccine is developed).
Please don't give the politicians any ideas...
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@dcon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
(unless you can hermetically seal everyone off until a perfect vaccine is developed).
Please don't give the politicians any ideas...
There have already been suggestions on that order...
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@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
count very loose contacts!
I don't know how that study counted contacts, but when you have contact tracing apps that count simply being close enough for phones to receive a BlueTooth transmission, you're talking about tracking very, very loose contacts indeed.
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
They sent an email the other day asking the embassy which companies were still flying/planning to fly in the next future to France. The embassy response, apart from standard filler, was two words: "
Company X
." (yes, dot included)Reminds me of a story I read on the internet forever ago. In Polish higher education, there's an informal tradition that students who get very good grades often don't have to write the final exam - but due to how grading works here, it's always only a few people for each course. But the exemption from final exam isn't formalized at all and it's all up to the professor to decide.
So anyway, one time a few students who had A+ grades all semester wanted to capitalize on it. The professor didn't say anything about giving out exemptions, but didn't say anything about not giving them out - so they decided to test their luck and write him an email. It was a long winded email full of formalities and repeating what an honor it would be, how much they'd appreciate it.
The professor replied:
Dear students,
No.
He should be promoted to Dean for his brevity.
Why would you want to punish a good professor?
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
count very loose contacts!
I don't know how that study counted contacts, but when you have contact tracing apps that count simply being close enough for phones to receive a BlueTooth transmission, you're talking about tracking very, very loose contacts indeed.
All I've read about those apps says they take into account distance (but I'm not sure how that one is accurate -- or rather, I'm pretty sure how inaccurate it must be, from my personal experience with BlueTooth!) and time spent in contact. Both of which are certainly not perfect but make sense, but without looking into the details of TFA (and that's obviously not gonna happen ) I have no idea how all of those contacts were gathered.
Still, I can't imagine how you can get to 455 contacts without counting loose ones, even in particular environments (e.g. enclosed ship). Even someone taking e.g. public transport is unlikely to get in close contact to that many people, unless you track it over many, many days... Since the study was trying to be extensive, I guess they used the loosest possible definition of "contact" that they could trace, so that they would be absolutely sure they would cover all contamination cases (and had they found positive ones, I guess they would have then analysed them in terms of distance/duration of contact, if they have that information).
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Years ago, we made Christmas ornaments out of the discs we had laying around.
It wasn't just you, that was kind of a fashion.
Before they were called life hacks. LOL
"Top 7 uses for all of your AOL CDs, number 5 will shock you"
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@Karla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Years ago, we made Christmas ornaments out of the discs we had laying around.
I've been gradually using all the driver CDs as cup coasters...
Got only a couple Soundblasters left now.
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Samuel Scarpino, an assistant professor at Northeastern University’s Network Science Institute, said Worobey’s paper “confirms what a lot of what we were starting to suspect from the epidemiological data, that there were some early introductions in the West Coast that did not spark sustained transmission.”
That seems plausible (even probable) to me.
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@boomzilla Related:
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Maybe this one should be in the Garage thread, but what the heck.
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@HardwareGeek Yeah, that site definitely belongs into the Garage due to their shitty captcha.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
shitty captcha
Those two words certainly go together. But I've never encountered one when clicking through a link from here to there. I'd think if anyone would have problems, I would, because I ad-block all the things.
Also, while I can understand why you might think they were Garageworthy for not agreeing with your political viewpoint, I don't think having a captcha makes a site Garageworthy. Shitty, maybe, but not Garageworthy.
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@HardwareGeek That site in general is Garage. Sorry. It's not about the views but about the way they present their views. Why is it that those "alternative sites" always have to resort to the lowest of Tabloid level?
If you want me to listen to your viewpoint don't use a site which is full of ad-hominems.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek That site in general is Garage. Sorry. It's not about the views but about the way they present their views. Why is it that those "alternative sites" always have to resort to the lowest of Tabloid level?
If you want me to listen to your viewpoint don't use a site which is full of ad-hominems.
If we restricted all news sites to that criteria there would be very little news outside of the garage.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@remi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Benjamin-Hall A high variance just says that locking some people (those with a naturally high number of contaminations, whatever causes it) and letting the rest loose would be very effective. But of course unless we know everything about the contamination pathways, there is no way to identify effectively that group...
That's the point. Since that's unknowable, the options come down to
- lock everyone down completely 100% until extinguished/perfect vaccine (not practical)
- take sensible precautions (few/no large enclosed gatherings, protecting elder-care as much as possible, masks on public transport) and generally open up, accepting that there will be non-zero fatalities for a while.
General perception over here is that
- Most infections occur within a relatively short time frame around the first day before the onset of symptoms (or ~ 4 days after infection in asymptomatic cases).
- The variance in the number of people infected is huge and largely depends on aerosol production (indoors, singing/shouting/coughing, ventilation). Even within households only <20% of contacts are infected regularly, but in churches, choirs, party locations etc. huge superspreading events have been observed.
That means the 400+ non-infected contacts can easily be explained by her not having many close contacts within the relevant time frame, that may well have been over for a long time (She was admitted to hospital due to another condition and only tested later).
It also means you can control the pandemic quite well if you avoid stuffing many people in badly ventilated spaces.
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@Dragoon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
If we restricted all news sites to that criteria there would be very little news outside of the garage.
Wait. Is that a bad thing?
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Huh. "Redstate". Is that some sort of communist newspaper?
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@cvi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Huh. "Redstate". Is that some sort of communist newspaper?
The opposite. They're declaring themselves Republican. For the rest of the world, it means they're the capitalist/libertarian (as opposed to socialist) side of the U.S. 2-party system.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
And those earlier studies had issues as well--many used self-reports for asymptomatic-ness (turns out a lot of those weren't really asymptomatic) and they were low-N as well
.
Basic sense says that someone with low viral load (correlated with being asymptomatic, but not 100%) is going to be less infectious than someone with high viral load. And if you're asymptomatic, then you're not coughing significantly, which reduces (but does not eliminate) droplet spread even at constant viral load.Now sure, we've got lots of cases of diseases that spread before symptoms appear. So it wouldn't be a surprise if SARS-COV-2 was. But it should be reduced significantly (based on other patterns). And other SARS variants weren't transmissible while asymptomatic at all, so there's evidence pointing in the other direction.
I think the most likely explanation for that anomaly is that people are symptomatic earlier, but don't notice the symptoms. Once doctors and scientists start watching properly, that effect vanishes (because they know to not dismiss the early coughs and splutters) and you instead end up with more people being described as having mild symptoms for longer. Bonus: all this explanation really relies on is the usual set of human biases; almost nobody likes to think of themselves as sick.
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Maybe this one should be in the Garage thread, but what the heck.
For their new way of fucking up a onebox, sure…
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
They're declaring themselves
RepublicanCommunists.Everyone knows that the Reds are the Commies!
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@Dragoon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek That site in general is Garage. Sorry. It's not about the views but about the way they present their views. Why is it that those "alternative sites" always have to resort to the lowest of Tabloid level?
If you want me to listen to your viewpoint don't use a site which is full of ad-hominems.
If we restricted all news sites to that criteria there would be very little news outside of the garage.
Seriously? Did you actually look at the Garbage of that site? Compare that to, say, the BBC and tell me with a straight face that they're equivalent.
I get that it's hip to bash the media nowadays but this is straight-up idiotic.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Dragoon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek That site in general is Garage. Sorry. It's not about the views but about the way they present their views. Why is it that those "alternative sites" always have to resort to the lowest of Tabloid level?
If you want me to listen to your viewpoint don't use a site which is full of ad-hominems.
If we restricted all news sites to that criteria there would be very little news outside of the garage.
Seriously? Did you actually look at the Garbage of that site? Compare that to, say, the BBC and tell me with a straight face that they're equivalent.
I get that it's hip to bash the media nowadays but this is straight-up idiotic.
While it's true that large news companies like BBC write with better quality, they just flat-out ignore certain topics, depending on their political leanings. Depending on the country, that covers most of what we'd consider "news".
Alternative news sites may not be pretty, but they fill the holes; providing the other angle and fleshing out the picture of the state of the world.
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@acrow This does not make them equivalent. Neither in quality nor quantity.
Basically as soon as you use Tabloid-level headlines (with the rest of the "article" in a similar style) you can forget about a site which is my whole point.
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@Rhywden For you, taht may be enough to forget the site. For me, not actually writing anything newsworthy makes for an even more worthless news-outfit, no matter how great their style.
Mainstream reporters go to university to learn how to write nicely. Alternative reporters obviously don't. The difference thereafter is a bit like that between AAA games and indie titles in gaming. One is pretty to succeed. The other tries to put in actual content.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Compare that to, say, the BBC
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Basically as soon as you use Tabloid-level headlines (with the rest of the "article" in a similar style) you can forget about a site which is my whole point.
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More graphs based on the above:
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
While it's true that large news companies like BBC write with better quality, they just flat-out ignore certain topics, depending on their political leanings.
That's true. Right now, the BBC has a tendency to stick a bit close to the UK Government's official line, even when that line is absolute bullcrap. But they do have some good bits nonetheless, such as this series written from the front-line of the fight:
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Dragoon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek That site in general is Garage. Sorry. It's not about the views but about the way they present their views. Why is it that those "alternative sites" always have to resort to the lowest of Tabloid level?
If you want me to listen to your viewpoint don't use a site which is full of ad-hominems.
If we restricted all news sites to that criteria there would be very little news outside of the garage.
Seriously? Did you actually look at the Garbage of that site? Compare that to, say, the BBC and tell me with a straight face that they're equivalent.
I get that it's hip to bash the media nowadays but this is straight-up idiotic.
<straight_face> They are equivalent </straight_face>
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Dragoon said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek That site in general is Garage. Sorry. It's not about the views but about the way they present their views. Why is it that those "alternative sites" always have to resort to the lowest of Tabloid level?
If you want me to listen to your viewpoint don't use a site which is full of ad-hominems.
If we restricted all news sites to that criteria there would be very little news outside of the garage.
Seriously? Did you actually look at the Garbage of that site? Compare that to, say, the BBC and tell me with a straight face that they're equivalent.
Who gives a fuck if they're "equivalent?" That's some bullshit right there.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden For you, taht may be enough to forget the site. For me, not actually writing anything newsworthy makes for an even more worthless news-outfit, no matter how great their style.
Mainstream reporters go to university to learn how to write nicely. Alternative reporters obviously don't. The difference thereafter is a bit like that between AAA games and indie titles in gaming. One is pretty to succeed. The other tries to put in actual content.
Yup, "actual content" that the "mainstream media" tries to bury from the unwashed masses. They're not supposed to know that they flipped the switch on these 5G antennas from "make your kids gay" to "give people Corona". Without these sites, we'd be none the wiser.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Compare that to, say, the BBC
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Basically as soon as you use Tabloid-level headlines (with the rest of the "article" in a similar style) you can forget about a site which is my whole point.
That's wholly uninteresting pop stuff. How does that even begin to compare to the garbage "news" being discussed?
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
give people Corona
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Compare that to, say, the BBC
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Basically as soon as you use Tabloid-level headlines (with the rest of the "article" in a similar style) you can forget about a site which is my whole point.
That's wholly uninteresting pop stuff. How does that even begin to compare to the garbage "news" being discussed?
It does have tabloid-level headline, I thought that's sufficient!
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
these sites
"These" is doing a lot of work there. And for sure in the US the sites that aren't "these sites" have been doing worse than talking about 5G turning anything gay.
And once again @Rhywden has dragged us all into a garage-like stream of BS with an ad hominem attack on a site instead of commenting on anything substantive.
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@boomzilla I wouldn't know because apparently I disagree with them on what is or isn't a train. After trying 5 times they can go .
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@cvi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Huh. "Redstate". Is that some sort of communist newspaper?
Funny thing is that it does reminds me (quite strongly, even by American standards) of communist state media outlets (of the 80s, I am not that old to remember 50s).
Edit: My apologies to anyone triggered.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla I wouldn't know because apparently I disagree with them on what is or isn't a train. After trying 5 times they can go .
Oh, some kind of user hostile anti-GDPR thing maybe? I've never gotten any sort of a captcha there.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla I wouldn't know because apparently I disagree with them on what is or isn't a train. After trying 5 times they can go .
Oh, some kind of user hostile anti-GDPR thing maybe? I've never gotten any sort of a captcha there.
They must assume us Commies don't have cars.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Without these sites, we'd be none the wiser.
Unless you full text searched on your video long names ofcourse ... then it all becomes as clear as a tokin stone
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla I wouldn't know because apparently I disagree with them on what is or isn't a train. After trying 5 times they can go .
Oh, some kind of user hostile anti-GDPR thing maybe? I've never gotten any sort of a captcha there.
Me either, assuming we're still talking about Redstate.
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@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden For you, taht may be enough to forget the site. For me, not actually writing anything newsworthy makes for an even more worthless news-outfit, no matter how great their style.
Yes, and you're obviously the one arbitrator of what you deem newsworthy and everything that does not fulfill your stringent criteria is not worthy of your interest.
How remarkably shortsighted of you. How remarkably stupid of you. You're doing the same bloody thing you're accusing them of: Picking and choosing and condemning them for not catering to your every whim.
Do you really think that this despicable "Redstate" site is worthy of your attention? If yes: No problem. But I think I'll discard anything you say in the future because you obviously cannot think for yourself and need those crutches to pander to your prejudices.
That goes for the rest of you as well who are doing those moronic: "Oh, but journalists are all equally bad!"
It also reeks of that usual moronic extremism. Yes, extremism: There's only good and bad and you obviously label all press bad and thus everything is the same and no one can be believed and thus we can simply swallow the garbage you guys insist on trying to feed us. I'm done with that shit.
You guys let the Garage leak and leak and leak but God forbid someone calls you assholes out on it: Noooo, it cannot be!
Fuck your Redstate. Fuck your DailyCaller. Fuck your FoxNews. Fuck them all and let's not forget:
FUCK YOU!
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@acrow said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
They're declaring themselves
RepublicanCommunists.Everyone knows that the Reds are the Commies!
I like Bruce Willis' definition of red.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yes, and you're obviously the one arbitrator of what you deem newsworthy and everything that does not fulfill your stringent criteria is not worthy of your interest.
How remarkably shortsighted of you. How remarkably stupid of you. You're doing the same bloody thing you're accusing them of: Picking and choosing and condemning them for not catering to your every whim.
Do you really think that this despicable "Redstate" site is worthy of your attention? If yes: No problem. But I think I'll discard anything you say in the future because you obviously cannot think for yourself and need those crutches to pander to your prejudices.
That goes for the rest of you as well who are doing those moronic: "Oh, but journalists are all equally bad!"
It also reeks of that usual moronic extremism. Yes, extremism: There's only good and bad and you obviously label all press bad and thus everything is the same and no one can be believed and thus we can simply swallow the garbage you guys insist on trying to feed us. I'm done with that shit.I intend this as constructive criticism and mean no disrespect or malice, but the parable about removing the plank in your own eye before pointing out the speck in someone else's really applies here. You're a smart guy, but you've got a super sensitive hair trigger on stuff that is a non-issue for anyone else I know. You let that trigger get pulled and suddenly you throw your rationality out the window and you simply quit making sense. Get help.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Do you really think that this
despicabledeplorable "Redstate" site is worthy of your attention?Words matter.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Do you really think that this
despicabledeplorable "Redstate" site is worthy of your attention?Words matter.
Yes they do, but in this case 'despicable' seems fine