Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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The trial's results are base around eight people who received doses of the virus beginning in March. The volunteers, who were healthy, produced antibodies that were determined to be effective in preventing the virus from replicating.
The company will now proceed along an accelerated timetable by moving to immediately begin a second phase involving 600 people. The third trial will begin in July, and will involve thousands of healthy volunteers.
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@boomzilla That's encouraging news, if it works out at larger scales.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
In other words: they try to ensure psychological wellbeing as well as physical, but often tip the balance towards the former rather than the latter when it comes to this disease.
That is, of course, a genuinely difficult call to make.
Indeed. We need to remember that, for example, there's no simple way to put a person suffering from dementia under lockdown.
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Status: God, I love people who argue with facts we know now that we should have acted differently two months ago. While simultaneously arguing that reliable data can only be had three years hence (in order to throw out facts which don't support their narrative).
Bonus statement: "If you don't know for certain then better do nothing at all!" (Yes, that's a direct quote).
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@Rhywden I can never decide if they're better or worse than the people who refuse to update their argument with any facts we've learned since then.
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@boomzilla They should take a page out of my playbook and be willfully ignorant in all timelines. Only that way can true Zen be achieved.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla They should take a page out of my playbook and be willfully ignorant in all timelines.
That sounds like you’re watching too much of The Flash.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla They should take a page out of my playbook and be willfully ignorant in all timelines.
That sounds like you’re watching too much of The Flash.
For sure that's the boat I'm in. I once caught a few minutes of it when my wife was watching it.
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So I have come across optimistic estimates that we might have a vaccine ready by the end of the year. So I guess that means that, optimistically speaking, we may be off of lockdown (whether legal or by social pressure) no sooner than the end of the year, and probably not by then?
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
So I have come across optimistic estimates that we might have a vaccine ready by the end of the year.
Finding a treatment plan that cuts the rate at which complications (and deaths) arise would also be a way to justify reopening sooner. Especially if it can be applied to people who haven't yet got sick enough to want to go to hospital. If the effective rate of complications is low enough, the rate of infection becomes much less of a worry.
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
So I have come across optimistic estimates that we might have a vaccine ready by the end of the year. So I guess that means that, optimistically speaking, we may be off of lockdown (whether legal or by social pressure) no sooner than the end of the year, and probably not by then?
Impossible. Excuse my cynicism and lack of faith in humanity, but COVID is becoming old news, people are getting tired of staying at home, and national treasuries are at their limit in how much they can help without triggering hyperinflation. No way the lockdown last longer than end of June, for reasons that have nothing to do with the virus itself But other restrictions might still apply, such as reduced airplane traffic.
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Patients in the northeast also mostly have lung damage rather than in their heart, kidney and stomach as in Wuhan.
So... The same as in the western world then?
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
No way the lockdown last longer than end of June
Our company has already said to expect to be working from home until the end of the year. They plan on slowly bringing people back, but if you can do your job from home, you're expected to. (It's a 4 (I think) phase plan. I'm pretty much in that last phase)
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@dcon the thing about working from home is that people don't really mind it. As opposed to every other part of lockdown.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dcon the thing about working from home is that people don't really mind it. As opposed to every other part of lockdown.
I have never liked working from home. I have to many distractions at home, way easier to work from the office.
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@Dragoon BTW - I'm glad we're already past the point where it's again okay to talk about minor annoyances such as not liking work from home or not having internet for weeks while there are people dying.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dcon the thing about working from home is that people don't really mind it. As opposed to every other part of lockdown.
I've known quite a few people who don't like it. They say they can't be productive at home. I love it, personally, though prior to lockdown my wife was making me go into the office at least once a week to get me out of the house.
@Dragoon BTW - I'm glad we're already past the point where it's again okay to talk about minor annoyances such as not liking work from home or not having internet for weeks while there are people dying.
There are definitely still Karens out there who will scold you about stuff like this.
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@boomzilla Yeah. I'm an introvert, but this whole thing is screwing with me really badly. Zoom classes are draining--no feedback from the kids; just talking to a wall. But thankfully yesterday was the last day of classes and I just have a few meetings where I can just sit there are not do anything left. Plus a "goodbye" "party" (on Zoom of course) that I have to act like I'm cheerful and upbeat for. That's gonna be a struggle, especially today.
Of course the prospect of being unemployed for a significant amount of time and having to completely re-skill isn't helping.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Dragoon BTW - I'm glad we're already past the point where it's again okay to talk about minor annoyances such as not liking work from home or not having internet for weeks while there are people dying.
Maybe we need an equivalent of the FWP thread. Something like, "Problems of People Who Are Not Yet Dying From the Wuhan Virus".
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I'm an introvert, but this whole thing is screwing with me really badly.
Personally, I've been dealing pretty well, haven't shown any major mood swings / depressions. Spending all my time by myself hasn't been that large of a change for me. And even with lifted restrictions I'll be spending the upcoming weeks mostly inside because of allergies. So it feels like all of the outgoing people have just been pushed down to my level (only talking about socializing aspects, ignoring all other problems like work, etc. people rightfully worry about)
What might hit me harder, though, is that of my closer friends the last remaining one living in my city moved away at the start of the month, so basically all my friends are farther away now and not available for regular activities. So when this is finally over, I guess everybody will be back going out, socializing, etc., and I'll still be sitting at home. When everybody else's life gets "normal" again and mine doesn't, that might suck. (Note: this does in no way imply I want this to go on any longer than necessary, I didn't say that.)
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@jinpa
It's definitely portant to keep an eye on the mutations. They'll determine whether the inevitable second wave this fall is going to be a shitshow or harmless. Let's hope it's the latter.BTW: Bats and the wet markets might not have been the culprit after all:
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
BTW: Bats and the wet markets might not have been the culprit after all:
I thought that the growing intelligence consensus was that the wet markets were a scapegoat; that it really did escape from the Wuhan lab after all. Not that it was engineered (though there are concerns that they have been working on viruses to target ethnic groups), but that it was being studied there and escaped.
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I thought that the growing intelligence consensus was that the wet markets were a scapegoat; that it really did escape from the Wuhan lab after all.
Entirely possible, but last I heard, it was still only one theory of many. The fact that this virus can infect so many mammal species and that there might have been a lot of asymptomatic carriers before the official patient zero will ultimately make it impossible to ever get a definitive answer to that question.
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As of May 18, our Shelter In Place order no longer has an end date: "effective until further notice". They are allowing some businesses to open up with curbside service.
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
BTW: Bats and the wet markets might not have been the culprit after all:
I thought that the growing intelligence consensus was that the wet markets were a scapegoat; that it really did escape from the Wuhan lab after all. Not that it was engineered (though there are concerns that they have been working on viruses to target ethnic groups), but that it was being studied there and escaped.
My personal working theory is that it may have escaped via the wet market - like someone looking for some extra money.
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If someone has SARS-CoV-2 genetic material in their airways, they’ve been infected. That said, having genetic material doesn’t necessarily mean that the person still has an active infection and infectious viral particles. They may just have lingering fragments of genetic material from destroyed viral particles.
That appears to be the case here. When KCDC researchers tried to isolate and grow whole, infectious particles of SARS-CoV-2 from the 108 cases they were able to test—all 108 were negative for whole virus.
There's a bit more to it all, but that's probably the money shot of TFA. So previous reports of reinfections may not have been accurate.
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Model suggests you don't need n95 masks to make a significant dent in transmission (I know, pretty obvious, but...)
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@JBert said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Eh, maybe I should crosspost this one because it's just brillant:
@JBert said in In other news today...:
Italian man has found miracle preventive measure to keep (potentially-Covid-19-infected) people at least 1 meter away:
If he patented his idea then he could have been taking royalties:
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Patients in the northeast also mostly have lung damage rather than in their heart, kidney and stomach as in Wuhan.
So... The same as in the western world then?
If the theory that low Vitamin D levels are correlated with disease seriousness progression holds, that's actually what you'd expect since people in more northern climes tend to cover up more and hence have lower D levels. (At least in the northern hemisphere.) I've no idea if the theory is right, of course, but this doesn't contradict it.
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Individual patients’ characteristics play a role as well. Some people shed far more virus, and for a longer period of time, than others, perhaps because of differences in their immune system or the distribution of virus receptors in their body. A 2019 study of healthy people showed some breathe out many more particles than others when they talk. (The volume at which they spoke explained some of the variation.) Singing may release more virus than speaking, which could help explain the choir outbreaks. People’s behavior also plays a role. Having many social contacts or not washing your hands makes you more likely to pass on the virus.
I KNEW IT. LOUD PEOPLE ARE FUCKING KILLING US.
I've been calling to deport them for years, but nobody listened to me.
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Here in Argentina we are still in lockdown after two months and there is still no end in sight for Buenos Aires, where most of the cases are. Some restrictions have been lifted or relaxed but people still aren't able to move freely. And despite making masks compulsory, the number of new cases still goes up each day. At this rate we might be in lockdown for longer than Wuhan.
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@magnusmaster That doesn't surprise me. I've lived in LA, I've visited NYC on various different occasions, but despite having a lower population than either one, Buenos Aires just felt more full to me, packed with people everywhere I went.
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@loopback0 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
In addition, they suggest the NHS considers shifting from its current "centralised" model - where contact-matching happens on a computer server - to a "decentralised" version - where the matching instead happens on people's phones.
I.e. "We'd like to completely change the fundamental architecture of this thing but it will just keep working" (and meanwhile we'll store your personal data in a password-less Redis on the intertubes)
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@LaoC said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@loopback0 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
In addition, they suggest the NHS considers shifting from its current "centralised" model - where contact-matching happens on a computer server - to a "decentralised" version - where the matching instead happens on people's phones.
I.e. "We'd like to completely change the fundamental architecture of this thing but it will just keep working" (and meanwhile we'll store your personal data in a password-less Redis on the intertubes)
They sure are doing a good job of showing why tracking the entire population is bad.
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@anonymous234 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I KNEW IT. LOUD PEOPLE ARE FUCKING KILLING US.
I've been calling to deport them for years, but nobody listened to me.
You should have talked louder.
Filed under: @LoudHoward could not be reached for comment.
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@LaoC said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@loopback0 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
In addition, they suggest the NHS considers shifting from its current "centralised" model - where contact-matching happens on a computer server - to a "decentralised" version - where the matching instead happens on people's phones.
I.e. "We'd like to completely change the fundamental architecture of this thing but it will just keep working" (and meanwhile we'll store your personal data in a password-less Redis on the intertubes)
They sure are doing a good job of showing why tracking the entire population is bad.
It's the UK, it's not like they needed that app for tracking people. They've been tracking their entire population by CCTV and probably cellphone for decades and haven't been chased out of office for that. Quite the opposite it seems.
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@Zecc said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@anonymous234 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I KNEW IT. LOUD PEOPLE ARE FUCKING KILLING US.
I've been calling to deport them for years, but nobody listened to me.
You should have talked louder.
Filed under:
@LoudHowardCrowder could not be reached for comment.
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@LaoC said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@LaoC said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@loopback0 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
In addition, they suggest the NHS considers shifting from its current "centralised" model - where contact-matching happens on a computer server - to a "decentralised" version - where the matching instead happens on people's phones.
I.e. "We'd like to completely change the fundamental architecture of this thing but it will just keep working" (and meanwhile we'll store your personal data in a password-less Redis on the intertubes)
They sure are doing a good job of showing why tracking the entire population is bad.
It's the UK, it's not like they needed that app for tracking people. They've been tracking their entire population by CCTV and probably cellphone for decades and haven't been chased out of office for that. Quite the opposite it seems.
Yeah, but they only track bad people so that everybody else can be kept safe.
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@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Even when I was fucking scared of this I just couldn't do all that. Just too much.
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@Benjamin-Hall In essence, washing hands still a good idea but no need to do it excessively.
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@Rhywden except 20 seconds isn't excessive at all. It's how people should've always done it.
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@Gąska I meant it more regarding the frequency and not the duration. Because at some point your skin will begin to hate you.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
no need to do it excessively
My OCD disagrees.
Seriously, though, I did once have a legit diagnosis of OCD (as one facet of "personality disorder with multiple facets"), but it doesn't involve hand-washing. Except maybe when handling food; I can be pretty fanatical about avoiding even improbable contamination from raw meat and eggs.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
at some point your skin will begin to hate you.
Did that while moving from CA to TX. Handling dusty, dirty moving/storage boxes, some of which had been in storage for years. Potted plants, outdoor furniture. Sick dog. Loading the truck. Unloading the truck. I washed my hands a lot, and my skin was not happy about it.
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@HardwareGeek I ran into that issue when I had problems with kidney stones. In two instances I got a catheter inserted into the ureter (the connection between bladder and kidney) in order to widen it (so that they either could pull the stone with an endoscope or it would pass on its own).
The problem is that normally there's a valve between the two which lets fluids flow only one way - with said catheter the connection is now permanently open. Which in turn means that even if your bladder is only quarter full you'll get a feeling of ... intense pressure in the kidney area.
So, you're on the toilet. A lot.
Which also means that you wash your hands. A lot.