Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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@cvi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
What kind of draconic rules do they have in the UK anyway?
Not especially draconic, but this was a case of the person who was most significantly associated with the rules that we have, that person being found to not even come close to obeying his own rules. Apparently you have to be a senior government minister (or the owner of a news media channel) to be able to get away with that much bare-faced hypocrisy.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@cvi said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
What kind of draconic rules do they have in the UK anyway?
Not especially draconic, but this was a case of the person who was most significantly associated with the rules that we have, that person being found to not even come close to obeying his own rules.
This once again proves that English people don’t pay any attention to what happens in Scotland. Exactly one month ago:
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@Carnage said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@izzion said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Population tested: 500
Positive results: 88
Symptomatic cases: 0Really makes you wonder how accurate the CFR numbers are, given that those 88 cases wouldn't ever be confirmed but for the homeless shelter doing a broad surveillance test.
Every single time there's been an outbreak in a closed group, this has been shown. Not quite as low percent of symptomatic cases as this though.
Consider that homeless people aren't an average population, these are the people that survived being homeless.
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@sockpuppet7 The article also doesn't mention what types of tests they actually did - the PCR or the antibody ones.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
these are the people that survived being homeless
Or at least the people that haven't died from it yet.
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We never ran out of toilet paper in our house (nor did we stock up for the pandemic), but for the first time today in over a month there was toilet paper at the local supermarket. I regard this as sailors regard terns, a sign that land is not too far off. Well, maybe not that optimistic, but a sign that at least one thing has gotten better.
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
for the first time today in over a month there was toilet paper at the local supermarket.
The local Walmart has never been out of toilet paper, at least not when I've been in there. Sometimes they've had only their own brand that falls to shreds if you look at it too hard, but I've never seen them completely out. Bleach and household cleaning products, gloves, masks — those they've been completely out of, but not TP.
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@jinpa said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
We never ran out of toilet paper in our house (nor did we stock up for the pandemic), but for the first time today in over a month there was toilet paper at the local supermarket. I regard this as sailors regard terns, a sign that land is not too far off. Well, maybe not that optimistic, but a sign that at least one thing has gotten better.
I saw toilet paper in two stores on Monday. Went to Sam's Club today and they had many pallets of both toilet paper and paper towels out.
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@boomzilla TP is made fairly close to where it is sold; it's just far too bulky per unit weight to ship long distance, so supply chains are short and actually pretty resilient. Shortages of it were always due to panic buying, but now everyone that can has a stock so the levels in stores are back up.
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@dkf And chances are that factories increased production in response to the panic buying, so there could be a surplus soon.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla TP is made fairly close to where it is sold; it's just far too bulky per unit weight to ship long distance, so supply chains are short and actually pretty resilient. Shortages of it were always due to panic buying, but now everyone that can has a stock so the levels in stores are back up.
I understand there was also a significant shift away from commercial TP since no one was going to work. And that the supply chains for commercial vs residential are pretty disjoint.
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@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dkf And chances are that factories increased production in response to the panic buying, so there could be a surplus soon.
Doubt it. The panic lasted, like, one week? That's not enough to even notice in the factory shipping schedule.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dkf And chances are that factories increased production in response to the panic buying, so there could be a surplus soon.
Doubt it. The panic lasted, like, one week? That's not enough to even notice in the factory shipping schedule.
It started early to the middle of March here so more like two months. Though stories I've read say that they were running on very slim margins and close to capacity as a matter of course.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dkf And chances are that factories increased production in response to the panic buying, so there could be a surplus soon.
Doubt it. The panic lasted, like, one week? That's not enough to even notice in the factory shipping schedule.
It started early to the middle of March here so more like two months.
IIRC it ended by late March already? And the rest was just memes. The thing about TP is that even if people start buying it more, they're not going to use it more. So any peak stabilizes pretty much instantly.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gurth said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dkf And chances are that factories increased production in response to the panic buying, so there could be a surplus soon.
Doubt it. The panic lasted, like, one week? That's not enough to even notice in the factory shipping schedule.
It started early to the middle of March here so more like two months.
IIRC it ended by late March already?
Not here. This week was literally the first time I've seen TP on a store shelf since March and I've been going to stores that normally stock it 2-3 times per week.
And the rest was just memes. The thing about TP is that even if people start buying it more, they're not going to use it more. So any peak stabilizes pretty much instantly.
Depending on your definition of instantly, yes, it should. Once your closet is full you slow down and eventually enough people get there. I'm just saying that it took about two months around here.
The one week example is more like a big winter storm, where everyone stocks up on bread, milk and TP and so the shelves are pretty barren for a few days before things go back to normal. This has been significantly different from that.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Much like in Hong Kong, those on "Comprehensive Social Security Assistance"(CSSA) can have big public housing ( >500sq.ft. ), and afford a car, and can have spare money to travel to foreign countries twice a year.
On the contrary, those have decent job have difficulty on buying 350 sq.ft. apartment (need to pay HKD 2 million for first instalment [max. 60% mortgage allowed] , and have to pay montage for > 35 years, yet still be criticized by bank for "too close to stress test limit" [Min. Monthly Income Requirement HKD$ 26,850.82])
If you can't be the rich one, be the poor one and your life is easier.
Yet on each and every year, they keep complain to the LegCo that amount they get from CSSA is not enough.
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Yay for bad data days!, No, that's not 0 there on yesterday. That's 60. Totally a fluke of reporting, I'm sure.
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Or if you prefer a more direct source:
Yeah. Never trust someone with flames in their avatar.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yeah. Never trust someone with flames in their avatar.
Or herring in their name...
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[redacted - bz]
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@lolwhat Could we please not call people Nazis without justification?
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@Rhywden Whom did I call a Nazi, exactly?
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden Whom did I call a Nazi, exactly?
Dude. Don't play dumb. If you did not want to imply that the officials in question were using Nazi methods then why mention them in the first place?
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@Applied-Mediocrity said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Yeah. Never trust someone with flames in their avatar.
Or herring in their name...
You just know they've got to be doing something fishy.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden Whom did I call a Nazi, exactly?
@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Cue die Nationalsozialisten.
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@topspin Hey, I didn't say that anyone here was one - but I'm sure plenty of people elsewhere are cheering this on.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin Hey, I didn't say that anyone here was one - but I'm sure plenty of people elsewhere are cheering this on.
FIrst of all, don't post one-liners without such comments because it's easily misunderstood.
Secondly, you're very much mistaken about what our rightwingers (and yours, by the way!) are thinking about lockdowns. Have you not followed the news?
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@Rhywden As a non-German, I can only guess at what goes on in German minds.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden As a non-German, I can only guess at what goes on in German minds.
Well, then don't begin to post something you don't know anything about, maybe? Especially when you use the flamethrower-equivalent of kindling a discussion?
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Speaking of left-wingers:
https://www.the-sun.com/news/801005/democratic-senators-2000-monthly-coronavirus-payment/
If the legislation is passed, Americans who make less than $120,000 would receive a monthly check of $2,000.
Married couples who file their taxes together would receive $4,000 and $2,000 would be provided for each child up to three.
...
The cash would be retroactive to March and would keep flowing until three months after the Health and Human Services Department has declared the public health emergency is over.
It would also be untouchable by debt collectors and Americans would receive the checks whether or not they have a Social Security number and filed taxes last year.
Fuck it, I might as well stop working. Then again, there is no way this couldn't be highly inflationary.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@topspin Hey, I didn't say that anyone here was one - but I'm sure plenty of people elsewhere are cheering this on.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say.
The only thing that comes to mind when reading this is that you want to imply a similarity between the news you linked to and Nazi politics. If that isn’t what you want to say, maybe don’t expect us to read your mind and randomly post Nazi comments without further context.
If it was a joke, I also think it was far from obvious. Might be my mistake, I don’t mind such jokes, but I didn’t see it.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
If the legislation is passed, Americans who make less than $120,000 would receive a monthly check of $2,000.
329 million Americans. Not all qualify — people who make >$120k and children #4 and above in a family are excluded. Ballpark, call it 300 million eligible. $2000 apiece. $2000 * 300 million = $600 billion. Per month. For who knows how many months. The entire Federal budget for last year was $390.4 billion / month. Even if they were to completely eliminate all other Federal spending (not bloody likely) that would be more than 1.5x the current budget, so realistically 2.5x. How are they planning to pay for this, raise our taxes by 2.5x?
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@topspin Naw, what I think he wanted to say was that such confinement policies would be loved by Nazis because they're supposedly all about racial purity and such.
When in actual reality our Nazis (and the rest of the rightwing idiots) hate these policies because a state they want to overthrow forces them into confinement (or worse: wear a mask! Which they love to do anyway but consistency is not their strength). That's why we didn't understand what he was about: Actual reality (for the last several months by the way) contradicted his perceptions of how some imaginary Nazis would act.
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
How are they planning to pay for this, raise our taxes by 2.5x?
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@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
How are they planning to pay for this, raise our taxes by 2.5x?
A little more math — simple HS algebra — and some oversimplifying assumptions.
Assume you're paying an effective Federal income tax rate of 20% and that this doesn't change due to the additional income from the stimulus. (Further assume the stimulus income is taxable, because of course it is.) Assume an annualized basis — the pandemic lasts the full tax year. Assume just you, no wife or children. Also ignore state and local taxes. At what point do you break even?
Without virus checks (per month):
(1 - 20%) * $income = $netIncome
With virus checks:
(1 - (2.5 * 20%)) * ($income + 2000) = $netIncome.8 * $income = .5 * ($income + 2000)
.3 * $income = 1000
$income = 3333.33If you make more than $3333.33/month ($40000/year), your taxes would increase more than the additional money from the government.
With wife and 3+ kids:
Without virus checks, same as before:
(1 - 20%) * $income = $netIncome
With virus for married partners and 3 kids:
(1 - (2.5 * 20%)) * ($income + 10000) = $netIncome.8 * $income = .5 * ($income + 10000)
.8 * $income = .5 * ($income + 10000)
.3 * $income = 5000
$income = 16666.66 ($200k/year)You hit the qualification cutoff before you tax increase exceeds the extra income. So it's a win for big families, but a net loss for single people with a good job.
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This is two days old, but I don't remember seeing it posted here (although that could be just my memory failure):
the need to maintain social distancing ... takes precedence over people's rights to exercise their First Amendment rights of free speech and assembly.
we're in a pandemic and executive orders have been issued, these are laws that have been passed down through executive order
And those laws are unconstitutional and invalid. Depriving someone of their constitutionally guaranteed rights is a criminal offense under Section 242 of Title 18:
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, ...
NYC has over 8.3 million residents who are being deprived of their constitutional rights. I'd like to see De Blasio charged with 8.3 million counts of violating Section 242, with a possible prison term of up to 1 year per violation.
Also,
New York City mayor De Blasio blasted for strolling through Brooklyn's Prospect Park with wife
New York City resident tells De Blasio that his trip to park outside of his home borough is 'epitome of non-essential travel.'
Rules for thee but not for me.
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@izzion said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@HardwareGeek said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
How are they planning to pay for this, raise our taxes by 2.5x?
Speaking of printers - so far this year, Poland has printed over 100 milliard złotys (about 25 billion US dollars). In other news, tomorrow starts election silence despite no election happening. It's a pretty funny story, but not for this category.
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@Gąska difference though is that the whole world holds large amounts US$ bonds and exchanges. Pretty sure the US actually can make money printer go brrrr for a bit without creating much of an inflation.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Fuck it, I might as well stop working.
Sounds like a plan!
Then again, there is no way this couldn't be highly inflationary.
It might be, but it will get the economy moving quite rapidly as there is no way that the vast majority of people will do anything other than spend that straight away. Which is the point of a stimulus. It only becomes a problem if it is sustained, and running it for three months doesn't count as sustained. (There probably ought to be a taper mechanism to encourage people to get off their collective asses, which might mean running it over more months delivering the same amount.)
The hard part is deciding when to set the clock ticking on this, as you want it to really hit home when the pandemic is subsiding (since the purpose is to get the economy moving again) and not when the virus has a nice fat second wave of infections and deaths. Glad that's not my call…
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
It only becomes a problem if it is sustained
That money doesn't disappear, however, no matter how long the "stimulus" lasts. When people stop spending that money, economic activity drops back, and everyone's individual dollars are worth less than before the "stimulus" started.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
That money doesn't disappear
Haha flamethrower go frrrr
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
It only becomes a problem if it is sustained
That money doesn't disappear, however, no matter how long the "stimulus" lasts. When people stop spending that money, economic activity drops back, and everyone's individual dollars are worth less than before the "stimulus" started.
Well, I counter your oversimplification with an oversimplification of my own: The alternative is getting no money at which point, while the individual dollar would be worth more, people would not actually possess any of those dollars so the point would be largely moot.
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Gąska difference though is that the whole world holds large amounts US$ bonds and exchanges. Pretty sure the US actually can make money printer go brrrr for a bit
without creating much of an inflation.While hiding most of the inflation overseas.And while that’s worked in the past, continuing to rely on it is exceptionally dangerous, because you’re just pumping those chickens full of rage inducing steroids, and when they come home to roost, they’re gonna make Asian murder hornets look like My Little Pony.
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@Rhywden Then again, the whole "stimulus" is actually pulled-forward demand. The increase in money supply causes demand for goods and services to jump, and then suppliers supply more of those... but after the spending stops, the demand drops back, which - if the demand bubble was large enough - causes companies to cut back or go out of business in large numbers, because they had adjusted their business plans to be predicated on the level of demand continuing for longer than it actually did.
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@lolwhat said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
because they had adjusted their business plans to be predicated on the level of demand continuing for longer than it actually did.
Well, in that case they would deserve to go under because they made permanent plans on something that's inherently time-limited. Also, this would likely be announced as a "three-months stimulus subject to possible extension" not as an indefinite measure. Thus an end would not come as a complete surprise.
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