Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!
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@boomzilla That's for influenza, though. It says so right in the title.
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@Rhywden yes, but it's the plan they had for a pandemic. Which obviously turned out to be inappropriate and they did something different. I'm just saying, don't go full :@levicki: here because of your prejudices of the man.
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@boomzilla It's not prejudice if the guy is completely incapable of dealing with a pandemic without making jokes about it.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla It's not prejudice if the guy is completely incapable of dealing with a pandemic without making jokes about it.
Except...he's not "completely incapable," otherwise he would have just let the original plan play out.
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Back on less Garage-y topics (shame on y'all):
Key systems in our online education platform are crumbling under load. Not the video-conference stuff, that's over-provisioned and robust (so far). No, it's our (hosted) LMS that's suffering severe degradation in performance and reliability once the whole country is in session (so by 10 AM EST). It's not been exactly super-reliable at the best of times, and this is not the best of times. Plus, they just acquired a whole separate platform and have focused most of their effort in that direction. Fun times.
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@boomzilla I guess there were some clue-by-four involved by other members of the government.
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My family uses Verizon for mobile service. Our plan gives us 4GB per month normally (plus carryover, which we always have because we don't really use that much mobile data unless we're travelling, which...). Just got a message from them saying they're giving us 15GM more to use between now and the end of April. Looks like most plans are getting that.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
My family uses Verizon for mobile service. Our plan gives us 4GB per month normally (plus carryover, which we always have because we don't really use that much mobile data unless we're travelling, which...). Just got a message from them saying they're giving us 15GM more to use between now and the end of April. Looks like most plans are getting that.
My network is making the official NHS site not count against data usage. I'll probably use approximately no data this month though, since I'm permanently indoors and on WiFi
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
My family uses Verizon for mobile service. Our plan gives us 4GB per month normally (plus carryover, which we always have because we don't really use that much mobile data unless we're travelling, which...). Just got a message from them saying they're giving us 15GM more to use between now and the end of April. Looks like most plans are getting that.
I wonder if Comcast is going to bump their 1TB cap as well. (My guess is no.)
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
My family uses Verizon for mobile service. Our plan gives us 4GB per month normally (plus carryover, which we always have because we don't really use that much mobile data unless we're travelling, which...). Just got a message from them saying they're giving us 15GM more to use between now and the end of April. Looks like most plans are getting that.
I wonder if Comcast is going to bump their 1TB cap as well. (My guess is no.)
:bzzt:
Pausing Our Data Plan: With so many people working and educating from home, we want our customers to access the internet without thinking about data plans. While the vast majority of our customers do not come close to using 1TB of data in a month, we are pausing our data plans for 60 days giving all customers Unlimited data for no additional charge.
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@boomzilla wow, seems like they're not as heartless as their regular offer suggests! Now, if only they made that change permanent since they've already shown their infrastructure is perfectly capable of sustaining that load so they cannot use that excuse anymore...
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dfdub If your policy decisions directly lead to increased suffering and deaths (against better knowledge!) then I'm sorry, but you just revoked your "get sympathy" card.
Once again, the infected are not the only people suffering here, and the data strongly suggests that they are in fact very much in the minority. When the response to the disease leads to even more suffering and death than the actual disease, what's the least-bad choice to make?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dfdub If your policy decisions directly lead to increased suffering and deaths (against better knowledge!) then I'm sorry, but you just revoked your "get sympathy" card.
Once again, the infected are not the only people suffering here, and the data strongly suggests that they are in fact very much in the minority. When the response to the disease leads to even more suffering and death than the actual disease, what's the least-bad choice to make?
Seems like something in between the shutdowns common in the US and Europe and lettin' 'er rip. Probably closer to Japan / South Korea / Taiwan.
One interesting thing that happened is that around here they said that masks don't work, which seems like it can't possibly be true. They probably meant that they don't work as well as the full on N95 style mask, but they almost certainly help. And they definitely seem to be part of Taiwan's success.
It's a common opinion that the inefficacy of the masks was stressed to keep people from hoarding them and taking away from medical personnel, which does make sense, and doing that may even have been the best strategy, given availability.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
When the response to the disease leads to even more suffering and death than the actual disease
[Citation needed]
I've heard the sentiment a few times now, but I have yet to see a credible source that suggests this is actually the case. The healthcare system is already collapsing despite the measures and it would only get worse without them.
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" What if Walter's launched a CSA of sorts where neighbors could purchase and pick up stables like produce, proteins, grains, eggs, and milk?"
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@dfdub He's kind of forgetting - once again - that overloading the system with Corona cases will also have a bit of an impact on all the other urgent medical cases which will still happen, pandemic or not.
Flu? Still happening. Cancer? Jepp. Heart attacks? Betcha! Strokes? Don't mind if I do! Car crashes? Hell, why not?
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Car crashes? Hell, why not?
Traffic levels seem to be down a lot. Which is nice, and probably means reduced crashes.
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@dkf Some people still manage to do so.
https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/fpa45u/two_police_cars_managed_to_crash_into_each_other/
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@dfdub The comparison is to diseases of desperation (drug abuse, suicide, spousal abuse, complications made worse by homelessness, etc.) which spike up when the economy is doing poorly.
3.5 million Americans filed for unemployment last month. The real number of unemployed is likely twice that (due to processing delays and things like that.)
The sooner we can get the economy restarted, the fewer people from that group fall prey to diseases of desperation.
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@boomzilla said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
It's a common opinion that the inefficacy of the masks was stressed to keep people from hoarding them and taking away from medical personnel, which does make sense, and doing that may even have been the best strategy, given availability.
From what I've heard, a badly fitting mask is worse than useless because people keep adjusting them so touch their faces more. Since the virus is rather small compared to the holes in masks they don't do much to stop airborne contamination but do have some benefit if used properly. The main benefit is in stopping the wearer from infecting others if they have the disease as they stop droplets from the wearer's mouth from spreading from coughs and sneezes
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The comparison is to diseases of desperation
I know that, but if you're going to make a bold claim like "the cure is worse than the disease", given the nightmarish situation in the hospitals developing right now, you better have some hard, quantifiable data on the expected death toll due to economic hardship to back it up. And not ignore the diseases of desperation caused by the aftermath of an untreated pandemic in your comparison. Otherwise, it just sounds like a populistic talking point, not an actually useful and honest argument.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
The comparison is to diseases of desperation
I know that, but if you're going to make a bold claim like "the cure is worse than the disease", given the nightmarish situation in the hospitals developing right now, you better have some hard, quantifiable data on the expected death toll due to economic hardship to back it up. And not ignore the diseases of desperation caused by the aftermath of an untreated pandemic in your comparison. Otherwise, it just sounds like a populistic talking point, not an actually useful and honest argument.
(Those arguments are also now miraculously made by people who previously didn't care about diseases of desperation, but that's admittedly unhelpful and a topic for the .)
Since when did we let the trolly into the house? They're only allowed in the garage!
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
They're only allowed in the garage!
Sorry, couldn't find the emoji and also couldn't be arsed to actually look for the right one.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
They're only allowed in the garage!
Sorry, couldn't find the emoji and also couldn't be arsed to actually look for the right one.
That's ok. I meant it like "bad trolly! bad! get back in the garage!"
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@Applied-Mediocrity quoted in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
As the COVID-19 pandemic ravages the world, digital transformation gurus and brand wealth managers are questioning if perhaps they should have done something more useful with their time on earth.
That seems unlikely. I doubt they have sufficient self-awareness to question their own usefulness.
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@HardwareGeek On the other hand, it turns out that telephone sanitizers are not quite as useless as one might think.
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
They're only allowed in the garage!
Sorry, couldn't find the emoji and also couldn't be arsed to actually look for the right one.
That's ok. I meant it like "bad trolly! bad! get back in the garage!"
Yeah, I edited my post and removed that comment. This thread is garage-y enough as it is and I probably should have kept that thought to myself.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
I know that, but if you're going to make a bold claim like "the cure is worse than the disease", given the nightmarish situation in the hospitals
Then it would help if you read what he said.
@Mason_Wheeler said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
When the response to the disease leads to even more suffering and death than the actual disease, what's the least-bad choice to make?
He's saying that there exists, somewhere, a theoretical tipping point where deaths from desperation outnumber deaths from Coronavirus.
Denying that that point exists is going to get people killed too.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear You kind of overlooked the actual studies on that topic I just posted, didn't you?
I posit that your argument is one of those which look good on paper but will be quite hard to actually find a good correlation for. Because as my linked studies point out, there are also countertrends.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Then it would help if you read what he said.
I read what he said in the context. Which was Johnson's original response to the virus.
I'm not saying that the argument is not interesting in theory. I'm saying that continuing to bring it up - which powerful politicians have very publicly done - without hard data to actually back it up is not a useful contribution to the discussion anymore, but a distraction.
I'm also not saying that we shouldn't think about the economic impact of the crisis and the response right now, I'm just objecting to the death toll argument.
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@dkf said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Car crashes? Hell, why not?
Traffic levels seem to be down a lot. Which is nice, and probably means reduced crashes.
But more severe? Because they can go faster now...
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@GuyWhoKilledBear You kind of overlooked the actual studies on that topic I just posted, didn't you?
No. This is a quote from your article. Ballester is the guy who did the study.
"Of course, recessions are not a desirable way to boost life expectancy" Ballester noted in a statement. In the long run, reduced economic activity is probably harmful. "What we need to ensure is that periods of economic expansion are also characterized by better air quality, fewer accidents and more healthy lifestyles,” he said.
In the original article, the bold part is a link to another study.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear Which does countermand my argument that the relationship is not that easily discernible exactly how?
Again, the argument sounds good. But until it is proven to be good, I remain sceptical.
Also, your quote? "in the long run, ... is probably harmful"?
It's talking about developing countries and a timespan of 10 years.
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Because of coronavirus,
the xkcd guySome random dude I never heard of is offering all his books for free:
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We do know that more wealth, of the people, equates to a healthier population. There is ample evidence of that, so the inverse must be true, that less wealth results in worse health. The only real uncertainty here is the time scale required for a wealthy society to be collapsed long enough for it to matter. The article you posted provides an idea on the lower bounds: "we can go at least this long", but as we recovered we don't have any good data on how long it would of taken for us to start dipping into the negative.
From what we know, I think we can safely argue that a collapsed economy will always hurt us in the long run, it just comes down to how long that run is.
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@admiral_p said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
FWIW, a large electronics chain here in Italy is still open because they have been included within the essential services.
In my city (such things are handled at the local level here), the businesses that are allowed to remain open include businesses that supply things people need to work from home, like electronics, and businesses that provide (home) entertainment, presumably to lessen the desire for people to leave their homes. Also, outdoor exercise (presumably limited to individual or family activities, not groups) and "anything else that contributes to public health" are acceptable reasons to be outside.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Which does countermand my argument that the relationship is not that easily discernible exactly how?
It countermands the point that I didn't read your article.
I don't deny that there are other confounding factors than Coronavirus and desparation diseases (like accidents and pollution, which is what the study found) But the fact that the guy you're citing says that it's not evidence for shutting down the economy has to mean something, right?
@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Also, your quote? "in the long run, ... is probably harmful"?
It's talking about developing countries and a timespan of 10 years.It's the author's quote. I didn't read everything he referenced. Let's not go crazy.
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@Rhywden said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
On the other hand, it turns out that telephone sanitizers are not quite as useless as one might think.
That was a point made originally too.
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@Dragoon Indeed. However, to make a point, there's also the fact of less pollution, less traffic accidents and other incidents which are positively correlated with higher wealth.
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@GuyWhoKilledBear The point is that your supposed relationship is not a trivial one. It usually is with all things economic. There are feedback loops upon feedback loops and hidden correlations up the wazoo.
Economic / political sciences are one of the weaker areas of science - after all, even in psychology you can do experiments.
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@dfdub said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@El_Heffe said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
Elon Musk
If you haven't seen it already, don't look at his Twitter account. Just… don't.
The only thing more infuriating than his daily egotistic rants is that he still makes positive headlines whenever he makes another vague, empty promise in a Tweet.
If the SEC actually fined him for every vague, empty, stock-pumping tweet, the Feds could fund the entire disaster relief effort.
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@Gąska said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
guySome random dude I never heard of
If you don't know SMBC you're missing out
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@Luhmann said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Polygeekery
but just like a vegan you already informed us of your position on this issue so the comparison standsI laughed because it's true. Lots of shooters are bitching about ammo shortages, just like a smug vegan I point out without being solicited that it will be a couple of years before I have to worry.
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@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Luhmann said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Polygeekery
but just like a vegan you already informed us of your position on this issue so the comparison standsI laughed because it's true. Lots of shooters are bitching about ammo shortages, just like a smug vegan I point out without being solicited that it will be a couple of years before I have to worry.
How long does ammo stay good? I assume a while but I'd guess less than 10 years.
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Today, by coincidence,
client
did some comparison load testing of several webex meeting systems to try to determine which would be the best for an online event next week, and my company had an update call on MS Teams. Here's what we found:- Cisco webex (billed under contract to
client
) is okay - Adobe Connect (I already forgot if that's the name) isn't very good
- Zoom had by far the best performance. Super clear audio and video, and stable connection, even with participants from Europe. And it seems the 40 minute limit isn't in effect
- Teams was the worst, at least from my perspective. Audio kept getting the robotic Skype warble and sometimes cutting out; video was down to blocky still frames. And everyone is local
- Cisco webex (billed under contract to
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@topspin said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Benjamin-Hall said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Zecc now you've done it. Reloaders are the vegans of the gun world.
Do you just throw the empty guns away and buy new ones?? I mean, I've seen that in movies.
Only the Hi-Points. They're single use.
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Polygeekery said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Luhmann said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
@Polygeekery
but just like a vegan you already informed us of your position on this issue so the comparison standsI laughed because it's true. Lots of shooters are bitching about ammo shortages, just like a smug vegan I point out without being solicited that it will be a couple of years before I have to worry.
How long does ammo stay good? I assume a while but I'd guess less than 10 years.
Assuming good storage...a long stinking time. People have shot ammo from WWII and it fired nicely. 10 years is the guaranteed lifetime (for normal storage), but most should go way longer than that.
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@mikehurley said in Tales from Coronavee-rooss Italy, mamma mia!:
How long does ammo stay good? I assume a while but I'd guess less than 10 years.
Properly manufactured and stored? Essentially forever.
If you keep oil away from primers and moisture away from powder they essentially never decompose. Especially so if you store at roughly room temperature or below.
But even oils from your hands can contaminate primers and cause them to degrade. And if primers are not stored in sealed containers or loaded right away then lots of things can degrade them. Especially any ammonia or urea vapors. Like cleaning products.
I've shot military ammo that is half a century old and it was fine.