I hate printers, with a passion
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@Parody said in I hate printers, with a passion:
just showed up in the Printers section of my Windows 10 install after I hooked up to the local network.
But according to @levicki it should also tell you its location., and shoot magic unicorn farts. Or something.
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
And none of you do?
I don't recall anyone making such a claim.
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Great self-delusion there
You can imagine what you may.
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
It is even enabled by default
I should test this theory and immediately forthwith will procure an iDevice to try printing to any a printer as I pass by them.
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Oh printer is giving location correctly,
Prove it.
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Both iOS and Android devices read and display it just fine.
Sure, they probably query it directly through different channels.
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
It's Windows that is retarded as usual.
I hear Microsoft is going Open Source. Maybe you can fix it yourself?
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
It could for starters list location entered on the printer yes.
It does. The printer told Windows its location was a URL. What do?
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
And also if printer is reporting A4 paper size tray then Windows should not insist on fucking Letter paper format and make you change that in zillion places to make it print without scaling or without outright refusing to print because "wrong paper size in the tray".
I have never experienced this.
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
For example it could respect regional settings and if I select a country which uses metric system it should fucking default to A4 paper not Letter if it is really fucking incapable after 35 years to read what the printer is set to and what's in the feeder.
So my American printer should respect your German regional setting while in Quebec?
I really don't know what you're trying to say here.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Why can't it tell Windows the truth?
Because, in short, the WSD (and accompanying DPWS) specifications don't allow such a thing.Hmm...there's a
<PrinterLocation>
element in the WSD Print Service spec that is supposed to be this info. If/when/how it gets mapped into any info boxes in Windows (without using Active Directory) is beyond my knowledge, as the obvious spot doesn't seem to be working for you two. In the posted configuration screens you can see that some strings seem to make it to Windows.FWIW, my example Epson printer has the URL for the print service in Windows' Location box, much like @Tsaukpaetra's HP printer.
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@Parody said in I hate printers, with a passion:
supposed to
If anyone can point me to a WSD tool to show the XML that gets served maybe we can point fingers more accurately.
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@Parody said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Hmm...there's a
<PrinterLocation>
element in the WSD Print Service spec that is supposed to be this info. If/when/how it gets mapped into any info boxes in Windows (without using Active Directory) is beyond my knowledge, as the obvious spot doesn't seem to be working for you two. In the posted configuration screens you can see that some strings seem to make it to Windows.I believe you can also get it through SNMP. But the fact is that in Windows you're supposed to put this information in Active Directory. Don't like that? Too bad, so sad.
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
AirPrint […] is even enabled by default but Windows is too stupid to use it.
NIH syndrome, very likely.
if I select a country which uses metric systemit should fucking default to A4 paper not LetterFTFY.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Why can't it tell Windows the truth?
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
It's not a matter of liking or disliking. Windows is not used only in a big corporate environment -- having an AD forest and a capable IT administrator (and a backup IT administrator for when the primary administrator goes to vacation or on a sick leave) for a couple of PCs and printers is not always financially justifiable.
“Contact your system administrator” is not good advice in errors and notifications in an OS aimed at consumers — it already wasn’t in Windows 95, but I didn’t know Microsoft was still under that delusion.
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Another option if Windows is too retarded to ask the printer what paper size is loaded and the regional settings are set to use Metric system then automatically select and configure A4 for newly installed printers because 8.5" x 11.0" is not fucking Metric.
That would get Canadians up in arms, I suppose …?
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
But I just love how people immediatelly assume I am an idiot making frivolous claims and downvote even legit questions for no good reason.
We aim to please.
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@boomzilla said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
But I just love how people immediatelly assume I am an idiot making frivolous claims and downvote even legit questions for no good reason.
We aim to please.
Apparently he wants us to aim a little lower.
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
the primary administrator
If you even have a primary administrator, your argument just became invalid.
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FWIW: If you really want to set the printer location in a non-AD windows environment, you can do it with a simple registry edit:
Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Print\Printers???\Location
where ??? is the printer name...
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@TheCPUWizard said in I hate printers, with a passion:
registry
Or just the Printer Properties dialog. That works too....
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
label Metric as T.
H.E.MU.S.H. though, it would go well with the mentality.FTFY
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Calling the Imperial system U.S. as if it doesn't apply to Great Britain or any other country that may be retarded enough to still use inches in 2019 is a in itself.
In the USA, the system is known as “US customary measures”, though. Is it still called “US” if you set the region to Canada or UK?
Interestingly, macOS has these choices:
Which leaves me puzzled what the difference between US and UK measurements is supposed to be in terms of units that make a difference to a computer operating system.
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I bought my printer long ago, perhaps 2008. A simple Laser printer, black and white only, of course.
And guess: it still works.
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@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Which leaves me puzzled what the difference between US and UK measurements is supposed to be in terms of units that make a difference to a computer operating system.
Not all measures are the same (depending on when they were standardised) and not all of them are written the same (there are totally different ways of writing pounds in the two).
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@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@Parody said in I hate printers, with a passion:
supposed to
If anyone can point me to a WSD tool to show the XML that gets served maybe we can point
fingersprinters more accurately.FTFY
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@Tsaukpaetra - Agreed (about the printer dialog), but that is (typically) manual; the registry approach does allow for automation (e.g. the printer is relocated but 50 PC's utilize it....
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
AirPrint is Apple's protocol built in into pretty much every recent printer from all manufacturers. It is even enabled by default but Windows is too stupid to use it.
And why would MS use their competitor's protocol, when pretty much every printer in existence works with default driver, and every manufacturer provides specialized drivers for Windows?
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@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@boomzilla said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
But I just love how people immediatelly assume I am an idiot making frivolous claims and downvote even legit questions for no good reason.
We aim to please.
Apparently he wants us to aim a little lower.
Wrong thread...
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@TheCPUWizard said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@Tsaukpaetra - Agreed (about the printer dialog), but that is (typically) manual; the registry approach does allow for automation (e.g. the printer is relocated but 50 PC's utilize it....
Which circles back to "if you're managing 50 computers, why aren't you using the tools designed to do so?"
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@levicki great, I have to download an entire SDK to settle an Internet dispute. Wonderbar. I'll get right on that once my monthly data cap isn't looming over my head in three days.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@levicki great, I have to download an entire SDK to settle an Internet dispute. Wonderbar. I'll get right on that once my monthly data cap isn't looming over my head in three days.
Oh. So you're the xkcd subject matter person...
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@dcon said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@levicki great, I have to download an entire SDK to settle an Internet dispute. Wonderbar. I'll get right on that once my monthly data cap isn't looming over my head in three days.
Oh. So you're the xkcd subject matter person...
You consider me a person?
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:
If anyone can point me to a WSD tool to show the XML that gets served maybe we can point fingers more accurately.
There you go:
No, there I don't go.
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@Tsaukpaetra your internet is broken.
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@Gąska said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@Tsaukpaetra your internet is broken.
Shit, you're right...
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@Tsaukpaetra *laughs in European*
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@Gąska Confirmed: Europeans don't have cox
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@Gąska said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@Tsaukpaetra *laughs in European*
*cries in this-post-is-tethered-over-my-phone*
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@topspin get this: those poor suckers aren't allowed to tether!
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@Gąska said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@topspin get this: those poor suckers aren't allowed to tether!
What? Why!?
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@dkf said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@Gurth said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Which leaves me puzzled what the difference between US and UK measurements is supposed to be in terms of units that make a difference to a computer operating system.
Not all measures are the same (depending on when they were standardised)
That’s why I qualified it with that make a difference to a computer operating system. I doubt an OS has a need to know the difference between avoirdupois pounds and troy pounds, for example, and for the ones that I can think of that it does need to deal with (say, inches) there is no difference between US and Uk definitions.
and not all of them are written the same (there are totally different ways of writing pounds in the two).
Maybe that’s the reason for giving the user a choice, but I’ve not bothered to try it.
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@MrL said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@Gąska said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@topspin get this: those poor suckers aren't allowed to tether!
What? Why!?
So they can be sold special data plans for twice the price where they are allowed to tether! It's amazing what Americans let their internet and mobile providers get away with.
Fun fact: if you have iPhone, it will automatically remove tethering entirely from phone settings depending on what plan you're on. You can see it live when swapping SIM cards.
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@Tsaukpaetra said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Wonderbar.
That was a running joke in MTV’s Most Wanted.
Referring to a supposed male equivalent to:—
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
But I just love how people immediatelly assume I am an idiot making frivolous claims and downvote even legit questions for no good reason.
@blakeyrat hasn't posted here in about a year. You've been chosen as his replacement. Congratulations.
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@Gąska said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Fun fact: if you have iPhone, it will automatically remove tethering entirely from phone settings depending on what plan you're on. You can see it live when swapping SIM cards.
if you insist on buying crapples products, the least you could do is learn how to jailbreak them and add this essential functionality back in.
or get a SIM card from a MVNO that doesn't fuck you about like the first party carriers do.
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@El_Heffe said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
But I just love how people immediatelly assume I am an idiot making frivolous claims and downvote even legit questions for no good reason.
@blakeyrat hasn't posted here in about a year. You've been chosen as his replacement. Congratulations.
We could do so much better though...
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@MrL said in I hate printers, with a passion:
And why would MS use their competitor's protocol, when pretty much every printer in existence works with default driver, and every manufacturer provides specialized drivers for Windows?
Because it is driverless printing to any printer that supports it, and it Just Works™?
And there is no such thing as a default driver for network printers in Windows -- Windows downloads drivers for you from Windows Update or from the printer itself if the printer supports that. And manufacturer's specialized drivers are bloated piece of crap.
As I mentioned the other day, what I saw worked in a way that was indistinguishable from instant, driverless printing. My work computer, which I had never used to print anything on my home printer before, successfully detected it and had no problem printing to it (aside from the "toner low" message that the printer has been giving for months).
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@Gąska said in I hate printers, with a passion:
So they can be sold special data plans for twice the price where they are allowed to tether! It's amazing what Americans let their internet and mobile providers get away with.
Fun fact: if you have iPhone, it will automatically remove tethering entirely from phone settings depending on what plan you're on. You can see it live when swapping SIM cards.
Huh. That's fucked up.
My data plan is "limitless", which is a lie, I guess. Theoretically when I hit the limit additional data packs are
automatically bought as I use more. I don't know what the limit is, never managed to exhaust it. 20GB? No idea.
The plan is 17$ a month. Data packs are 2$ for 10GB.Unlimited calls would cost me something like 15$ more monthly. But I went for the cheap plan and there's only 300 minutes.
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Because it is driverless printing to any printer that supports it, and it Just Works™?
I'll take a wild guess that two things keeping this technological wonder off Windows are:
- MS already have a system for it.
- It would mean dealing with Apple.
And there is no such thing as a default driver for network printers in Windows -- Windows downloads drivers for you from Windows Update or from the printer itself if the printer supports that. And manufacturer's specialized drivers are bloated piece of crap.
Yet when I plug in new printer it Just Works™
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Yet when I plug in new printer...
If you have to plug it into the computer you are -- death to USB printers, network printers all the way.
I'm too to enter Wi-Fi password with arrows. But you do you.
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@MrL said in I hate printers, with a passion:
And why would MS use their competitor's protocol, when pretty much every printer in existence works with default driver, and every manufacturer provides specialized drivers for Windows?
Because it is driverless printing to any printer that supports it, and it Just Works™?
And there is no such thing as a default driver for network printers in Windows -- Windows downloads drivers for you from Windows Update or from the printer itself if the printer supports that. And manufacturer's specialized drivers are bloated piece of crap.
You are a retard.
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Yeah, the one where Windows can't find its way out of a wet paper bag, much less a printer unless it talks to the mothership first and downloads 100+ MB of drivers, not to mention crappy printer vendor applications that get installed and run on startup whose only purpose is to waste resources on your PC to remind you to buy their toner or ink.
You're adorable. Every printer I've ever used worked first try with zero drivers. Because, hint, Microsoft had that whole "universal standard" thing figured out back when Apple was still trying to figure out touchscreens.
You are under this creative delusion that Apple is doing something brave and new by having some special protocol. They're not. They're just doing the same old "Apple products only work with Apple products" bullshit they've always done.
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@pie_flavor said in I hate printers, with a passion:
@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
Yeah, the one where Windows can't find its way out of a wet paper bag, much less a printer unless it talks to the mothership first and downloads 100+ MB of drivers, not to mention crappy printer vendor applications that get installed and run on startup whose only purpose is to waste resources on your PC to remind you to buy their toner or ink.
You're adorable. Every printer I've ever used worked first try with zero drivers. Because, hint, Microsoft had that whole "universal standard" thing figured out back when Apple was still trying to figure out touchscreens.
EARTH-73 ALERT!
Fun game: install a fresh Windows copy without internet connection of any kind at all, then try to use a printer.
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
If you have to plug it into the computer you are -- death to USB printers, network printers all the way.
This is why everyone hates you.
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@El_Heffe nah, there's lots of reasons.
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@levicki said in I hate printers, with a passion:
By the way, even CUPS under Linux can handle AirPrint capable printers out of the box with no user input or driver installation.
I wonder why...
CUPS is the standards-based, open source printing system developed by Apple Inc. for macOS® and other UNIX®-like operating systems.