don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?
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@Gurth said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@Captain said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@Gurth Yep, if I had been calling it by what Apple calls it, It would have been the "Apple Key" or "Command Key".
The name “Apple key” went out with the last Apple ][, I think. (How to recognise Blakey-vintage Mac users: see what they call the key with the ⌘ symbol on it.)
Open-Apple, duh! (Closed-Apple became Option.)
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@Gurth said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@Captain said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@Gurth Yep, if I had been calling it by what Apple calls it, It would have been the "Apple Key" or "Command Key".
The name “Apple key” went out with the last Apple ][, I think. (How to recognise Blakey-vintage Mac users: see what they call the key with the ⌘ symbol on it.)
That's easy: I look at the keyboard (which I normally don't do) and see that that's the icon for the key labeled
cmd
and not the one labeledalt
. That other one has a weird icon looking like a railroad switch.
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@topspin You’re clearly not a Mac user of 20–30 years ago. (For the record: neither am I.) TBH I don’t know if it happens in English too, but Dutch Mac users of that kind of vintage have the habit of saying/typing things like, “hit apple-S to save” without even realising that anyone who started using Macs in or after 2007, probably has never even seen an Apple keyboard with an symbol on the Command key.
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@Gurth https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevärdhet
Obviously.
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Today I swiped a credit card instead of using the chip.
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@Zenith said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
Today I swiped a credit card instead of using the chip.
I don't see anything wrong with it, except maybe that the shop accepts magstripes.
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@Gurth said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
Still, localising shortcuts would probably actually benefit users — provided it’s done well and everyone localises their shortcuts accordingly.
It's one of those things that sound good on paper but not so much in practice. Honestly, it only takes marginally more effort to learn that you can use Ctrl+F to frobnicate than if it would've been Ctrl+G instead. I mean, just look at Ctrl+X and Ctrl+V. Localizing shortcuts is a very minor, very short-term benefit and a major PITA for everyone forever.It really isn't worth it. Ever.
While writing this post, at one point I've accidentally typed "Ctrl+fag".
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@Gąska said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@Zenith said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
Today I swiped a credit card instead of using the chip.
I don't see anything wrong with it, except maybe that the shop accepts magstripes.
It's more common on this side of the pond. We've got the latest tech, and we've also got tons of people who really couldn't give a shit about it and hate change.
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@pie_flavor said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
We've got the latest tech, and we've also got tons of people who really couldn't give a shit about it and hate change.
The standard way to fix that is for banks to increase the charges and/or liability for places that won't get with the program. Which screws over mom-and-pop stores, but that's a constant anyway. OTOH, you've got lots of mom-and-pop banks too…
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@Gąska said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
It's one of those things that sound good on paper but not so much in practice. Honestly, it only takes marginally more effort to learn that you can use Ctrl+F to frobnicate than if it would've been Ctrl+G instead. I mean, just look at Ctrl+X and Ctrl+V. Localizing shortcuts is a very minor, very short-term benefit and a major PITA for everyone forever.It really isn't worth it. Ever.
Since the basics of many shortcuts are mnemonics (“S for Save”), this argument doesn’t really fly: if mnemonics in English is a good idea, then it probably also is in other languages.
I agree with you that it would be a major hassle to implement, though, even if it had been done from the first. However, I see the main objection to it what I already mentioned: some (many?) people will fail to localise them, and that causes trouble.
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@Gąska The readers still accept swipes but only after the chip has failed three times. For whatever reason, the clear American Express cards seem to have very breakable chips. Checkout with them is a chore as a result.
And yeah, they have shifted liability (wrongly IMO) onto merchants still swiping cards. It's stupid because stripe readers are free (there's a nickel's worth of parts in them) while chip readers are upwards of $50. For a very small business, that's flushing money down the toilet.
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@Gurth said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@Gąska said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
It's one of those things that sound good on paper but not so much in practice. Honestly, it only takes marginally more effort to learn that you can use Ctrl+F to frobnicate than if it would've been Ctrl+G instead. I mean, just look at Ctrl+X and Ctrl+V. Localizing shortcuts is a very minor, very short-term benefit and a major PITA for everyone forever.It really isn't worth it. Ever.
Since the basics of many shortcuts are mnemonics (“S for Save”), this argument doesn’t really fly: if mnemonics in English is a good idea, then it probably also is in other languages.
I agree with you that it would be a major hassle to implement, though, even if it had been done from the first. However, I see the main objection to it what I already mentioned: some (many?) people will fail to localise them, and that causes trouble.
I hate every program I've ever used that replaces some shortcut keys for native mnemonics. Suck as Ctrl + F for bold style text. It's fucking horrible. Once you get into the deeper ends of the murky waters the lettering is basically "This one was left", so it really isn't much of a gain and a massive pain in the arse when the keys you use change because the language of the install is different.
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@Carnage said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
the lettering is basically "This one was left"
What do you mean? ctrl J is clearly representative of "duplicate".
(actually now that I think about it, I suppose "duplicate" does start with /dʒ/)
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@kazitor said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
actually now that I think about it, I suppose "duplicate" does start with /dʒ/
Wat?
You want some vegemite sandwich with that?
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@topspin "Vegemite" contains /dʒ/ but does not begin with it
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@kazitor said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
but does not begin with it
Neither does "duplicate".
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@topspin I checked Wiktionary, failing that the trusty Macquarie dictionary, failing that the closest people on hand, and it would appear you are correct. Add that to "things I've said wrong for years."
For some time I would say /θ/ and /ð/ as /f/ and /v/ respectively, even though I knew the sounds and could easily make them if you asked. Got out of that habit though, and then I started to notice a fair few other people seem to do the exact thing too.
Oh hey, this is even kinda related to the topic title.
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@Gurth said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
see what they call the key with the ⌘ symbol on it.
I called it the weird flower key.
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Something relevant to the topic: occasionally, when I draw a pencil stroke I don't like, I find myself instinctively searching for the "undo" button to my left.
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@kazitor said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
Something relevant to the topic: occasionally, when I draw a pencil stroke I don't like, I find myself instinctively searching for the "undo" button to my left.
I have something similar: with hardcopy books, I sometimes find myself wanting to tap the search field or press Command+F to find something I know is in it. I never actually try it, of course, but I have caught myself having this urge in the back of my mind to do that before dismissing it as stupid..
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@Gurth I know I've done that a few times.
On topic of "I might use computers too much" – once I saw a shadow being cast by a small light very close to it, producing a very fine edge, and briefly I was impressed by the rendering quality…
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@kazitor said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@Gurth I know I've done that a few times.
On topic of "I might use computers too much" – once I saw a shadow being cast by a small light very close to it, producing a very fine edge, and briefly I was impressed by the rendering quality…
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@Gurth said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@kazitor said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
Something relevant to the topic: occasionally, when I draw a pencil stroke I don't like, I find myself instinctively searching for the "undo" button to my left.
I have something similar: with hardcopy books, I sometimes find myself wanting to tap the search field or press Command+F to find something I know is in it. I never actually try it, of course, but I have caught myself having this urge in the back of my mind to do that before dismissing it as stupid..
I mostly read books on my Kindle, so sometimes when I read a hardcopy, I have the urge to press on a word I want to know the meaning of
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@Captain said in don't you hate it if muscle memory gets the better of you?:
@iKnowItsLame Just use vim.
And then you have to use Jira and press
ESC
after typing a page of shit …
There are comments in ours that I had to type three times because of that
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