In other news today...
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@dcon Paging @Polygeekery
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@pie_flavor I have an alibi. I had jury duty in the USA today.
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@dcon I came to this thread to post that, if it hadn't been already. 674 years old; took almost 200 years to build; no telling how long it will take to repair, if it's not too badly damaged to repair, but doubtful that it will be done in my lifetime. I've never been to Paris, so I haven't seen it in person; now I never will.
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@HardwareGeek It took 200 years to build from scratch ine the 12th century. Assuming the damage is limited to the wooden roof, it shouldn't take many years to rebuild.
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@Mingan Perhaps, but we'll have to wait for the damage to be assessed. From the photos, the fire looks pretty intense. Even if the structural stonework is undamaged, I'd be amazed if there isn't extensive damage to the stained glass; that'll be expensive and time consuming to repair.
Also, I'm ; even 20 years is probably too long for me to be able to see it, at least to travel ~1/3 of the way around the world to see it in person.
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@Mingan said in In other news today...:
Assuming the damage is limited to the wooden roof, it shouldn't take many years to rebuild.
That depends on how much money is made available for repairs. At the usual rate of cathedral mending, it'll take 50 years or more, but who knows, it's an iconic Parisian building so there may be a case to be made for civic funding to accelerate things.
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@HardwareGeek Yes, repairing stained glass implies redoing it in full. There are also probably not many artisans currently capable of making works of this scale.
Edit : Do like other : forget to die@dkf It's the Catholic church. Money is one fund drive away.
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@dkf Reports earlier tonight of firemen going into the structure to save irreplaceable art - that was ongoing when the central spire collapsed. But also that the entire 12th century wooden interior is on fire, and likely to be lost completely.
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@Mingan said in In other news today...:
It's the Catholic church. Money is one fund drive away.
It's the Catholic church in France. They've got all sorts of ideas about anticlericalism there…
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@dkf Just wait until the bloody Pope comes out and asks the faithful to make a small sacrifice and they'll have millions rolling in. Also consider that there are VERY conservative parts in France which are also VERY catholic.
And there's probably a lot of random people giving just because of it's world heritage status.
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@PleegWat Yeah, I don't expect there to be anything left but a stone shell tbh. That fire will have to burn out on its own, nothing to do. Even though Trump suggested waterbombing the cathedral with helicopters. I don't think that's very smart in the middle of a city, though....
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@Atazhaia It would also be more likely to do more damage than less.
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It shouldn't take that long, just get the woman who restored the Jesus painting a few years ago to do it.
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@Mingan But Trump is an expert at fire prevention! You see, first you cut money to fire prevention measures, then blame the responsibles for fire prevention for not doing their jobs when fires break out.
Also, here's his quote for the interested.
So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
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@Atazhaia said in In other news today...:
Even though Trump suggested waterbombing the cathedral with helicopters. I don't think that's very smart in the middle of a city, though....
I'm sure St. Elon can invent a way to put it out.
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@Atazhaia said in In other news today...:
@Mingan But Trump is an expert at fire prevention! You see, first you cut money to fire prevention measures, then blame the
responsibles for fire prevention for not doing their jobsDemocrats when fires break out.FFTP
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@HardwareGeek Step 1: Get all the Teslas off the streets while firefighters are trying to get to the cathedral
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@hungrier You shouldn't attempt moving Teslas when firetrucks are around.
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@Mingan They would have to evacuate the Teslas before the firetrucks show up, of course. It would be too dangerous to keep them there after they arrive.
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@hungrier Are fire trucks in Paris red? If not, that might protect them from the Tesla
targetingnavigation system.
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@HardwareGeek According to the Google, yes.
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@boomzilla said in In other news today...:
This is where direct democracy and popular referenda are supposed to come into play - to stop politicians from making stupid decisions.
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@dcon said in In other news today...:
This is too sad to upvote.
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@dcon I came to this thread to post that, if it hadn't been already. 674 years old; took almost 200 years to build; no telling how long it will take to repair, if it's not too badly damaged to repair, but doubtful that it will be done in my lifetime. I've never been to Paris, so I haven't seen it in person; now I never will.
I stood in front of it two years ago, but since I only had a few hours in Paris the line was just way too long to get in.
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@HardwareGeek given what the blaze looks like, glass work is definitely gone. Look for pictures of the rose windows, they were really something.
Also, yes, fire trucks here are red.
It obviously depends on what will be left of it (holy fucking shit, I never thought I'd say that...), but it's likely that any fundraising will go into tens of millions very, very quickly. Also, the status of Church and State is complicated in France, but the gist here is that the cathedral actually belongs to the state, so in theory they'll be the one to pay for the restoration. I have the feeling, right now, that the government could announce spending hundreds of millions of public money and people would cheer for it.
I have the feeling that raising funds won't be an issue, but even then, restoration (rebuilding???? holy fucking fuck...) will take years...
Note that weirdly, Macron was set to announce tonight his big changes following the "great debate" that he organised to try and stem the "yellow vests". He's postponed it to tomorrow night.
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Also, some statues from the spire (that was undergoing repair works, and it's currently assumed that this is where the fire started) were removed a couple of days ago, so they'll be saved whatever happens.
Note that the spire dates "only" from the 19th century, it is (was...) much younger than the rest.
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@remi said in In other news today...:
Look for pictures of the rose windows, they were really something.
Yes, I've seen pictures many times. It's not the same as seeing it in person.
(I seem to recall that the windows of Chartres are considered to be even finer than Notre Dame, but Notre Dame is famous. Maybe because of that hunchback.)
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https://www.leetchi.com/c/financement-des-reparations-de-notre-dame-de-paris
At 11pm local time, this has already 7000€. It's peanuts, of course, except that it's a tiny initiative from two anonymous guys, with no PR (yet). The speed of growth shows how much people are affected.
(although I'd rather wait for a more reputable fund raising... the Fondation du Patrimoine, an official body, has already announced they'll start one tomorrow)
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Some improving news...
Both towers of the Notre Dame cathedral “are safe,” said Laurent Nunez, French Secretary to the Interior Minister, hours after a massive fire toppled its spire, burned its roof, and threatened the centuries-old art and architecture inside.
“The fire is now weaker. We are now in a time of cooling but both towers of the cathedral are safe. We're still working to save the cathedral's work of arts," Nunez told reporters at the scene.
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@dcon 'd me.
Reuters news agency is quoting an official with the French firefighting team as saying: "We can now say that the structure of Notre-Dame has been saved from total destruction".
AFP is also reporting that the main structure has been "saved and preserved", citing an official.
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@loopback0 I'm "watching" CNN: https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/notre-dame-fire/index.html
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@Carnage said in In other news today...:
@PJH said in In other news today...:
<checks date> Looks legit...
Animals can either invest energy attracting females with impressive manes and beards or spend their energy growing larger gonads.
This means hairy human men with a bushy beard and long hair are likely to have smaller testes than their follicly challenged brethren.
You do know that dailymail has the journalistic integrity of breitbart and the accuracy of trump trying to give a speech on acid, right? Even just reading the article, it has two sources: a facebook post from a secondary source and a local news site that itself cites zero sources and adds nothing to the credibility of the story. Furthermore, it doesn't list the author of the article. Yet another perfect example of the shady practices that made dailymail famous for being a fake news site. For all we know, this entire situation could be made up, and even assuming the local news site is telling the truth to the best of their ability, that still just means that the McD's franchise owner received a complaint and responded to that complaint in some fashion, which could just as easily have been to check security camera footage, see that the cop was not treated that way, and promptly ignore the complaint.
FTFY.
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@HardwareGeek there are many splendid cathedrals in France (and in Germany, B*****m, England...), Chartres is also indeed renowned for it's blue glass windows, but really, they're all remarkable for one thing or another, if anything just the sheer size of them, for buildings from the Middle Ages.
I'm not sure Notre Dame (de Paris, there probably are several other Notre Dame cathedrals just in France !) is the most beautiful, or the largest, or anything really above the rest by itself. But it's definitely a very large one and being in Paris (instead of in a minor city like Chartres, or Reims, or Rouen, or tens of others...) certainly makes it more famous.
The hunchback is simply known as Notre Dame de Paris in French (well the book is... the hunchback himself is obviously known as the hunchback...), and I don't think it has much bearing on the fame of the building here. It might even be the other way round, that the hunchback would be less famous if he wasn't from Notre Dame!
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@remi said in In other news today...:
I don't think it has much bearing on the fame of the building here.
Perhaps I should have put a smiley after that sentence.
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@HardwareGeek Meh. I'm used to some countries seeing one thing as the typical item from another country, while that country really doesn't give it that much importance. The hunchback is one of those, Americans see it as the quintessential French book, but Frenchmen really see it as one of many (great) literature works amongst other.
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@remi said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek Meh. I'm used to some countries seeing one thing as the typical item from another country, while that country really doesn't give it that much importance. The hunchback is one of those, Americans see it as the quintessential French book, but Frenchmen really see it as one of many (great) literature works amongst other.
Book? I'd bet most don't get further than the Disney movie.
Has never read the book either, though he's seen a different (non-Disney) animated production.
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@remi said in In other news today...:
Americans see it as the quintessential French book,
I'd think more Americans would consider Les Miserables as the quintessential French book, or not unlikely, any of several books set in France but written by non-Frenchmen, but ; I'm not necessarily a typical American.
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@Atazhaia said in In other news today...:
@Mingan But Trump is an expert at fire prevention! You see, first you cut money to fire prevention measures, then blame the responsibles for fire prevention for not doing their jobs when fires break out.
Also, here's his quote for the interested.
So horrible to watch the massive fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris. Perhaps flying water tankers could be used to put it out. Must act quickly!
And the response:
The French General Directorate for Civil Security and Crisis Management tweeted that hundreds of firefighters are "doing everything they can" to bring the fire under control. Water-bombing aircraft is not being used to put the fire out because the weight could lead to the collapse of the entire structure, the agency said.
Why would they not follow the advice of Trump? Fire should be put out fast! Safety is a low concern!
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@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
@remi said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek Meh. I'm used to some countries seeing one thing as the typical item from another country, while that country really doesn't give it that much importance. The hunchback is one of those, Americans see it as the quintessential French book, but Frenchmen really see it as one of many (great) literature works amongst other.
Book? I'd bet most don't get further than the Disney movie.
Has never read the book either, though he's seen a different (non-Disney) animated production.
The highest-quality version I hope!
The Hunchback of Notre Dame (Dingo Pictures) - Phelous – 32:23
— Phelan Porteous
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@PleegWat said in In other news today...:
Book? I'd bet most don't get further than the Disney movie.
Yeah, I forgot i was talking about Murricans. "Reading? What's that?"
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@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@remi said in In other news today...:
Americans see it as the quintessential French book,
I'd think more Americans would consider Les Miserables as the quintessential French book, or not unlikely, any of several books set in France but written by non-Frenchmen, but ; I'm not necessarily a typical American.
Three Musketeers!
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@PleegWat Love how they say "after fire" when you can see the warm orange glow of the flames...
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@dcon said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@remi said in In other news today...:
Americans see it as the quintessential French book,
I'd think more Americans would consider Les Miserables as the quintessential French book, or not unlikely, any of several books set in France but written by non-Frenchmen, but ; I'm not necessarily a typical American.
Three Musketeers!
Tale of Two Cities!
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@dcon In Dutch they call a signal 'brand meester', literally 'fire mastered'. This basically means the fire is under control and there is no more risk of it spreading further, but it may still take a long time for the fire to be extinguished entirely.
This may refer to something similar - the fire has not yet been extinguished (and indeed I would be surprised if they won't be busy all night) but the main structure, including the front façade and the two towers, are no longer at risk.
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@dcon said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@remi said in In other news today...:
Americans see it as the quintessential French book,
I'd think more Americans would consider Les Miserables as the quintessential French book, or not unlikely, any of several books set in France but written by non-Frenchmen, but ; I'm not necessarily a typical American.
Three Musketeers!
I thought of that, too, but I didn't remember who wrote it, and to look it up.
@boomzilla said in In other news today...:
@dcon said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@remi said in In other news today...:
Americans see it as the quintessential French book,
I'd think more Americans would consider Les Miserables as the quintessential French book, or not unlikely, any of several books set in France but written by non-Frenchmen, but ; I'm not necessarily a typical American.
Three Musketeers!
Tale of Two Cities!
Yes, that was one of the ones written by non-Frenchmen that I was thinking of.
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@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@dcon said in In other news today...:
@HardwareGeek said in In other news today...:
@remi said in In other news today...:
Americans see it as the quintessential French book,
I'd think more Americans would consider Les Miserables as the quintessential French book, or not unlikely, any of several books set in France but written by non-Frenchmen, but ; I'm not necessarily a typical American.
Three Musketeers!
I thought of that, too, but I didn't remember who wrote it, and to look it up.
That was the first french book I read (well, in English!). Alexandre Dumas, as I remember (not going to double check because )
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@dcon I remember reading the three musketeers and thinking it read strangely, with weird alternations between high-detail sections and large skips. I later heard the theory (though never researched to confirm) it was likely initially published episodically in a newspaper or magazine, and the book is basically an extract of that.
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@PleegWat Same here in the US. Or at least my part of it. Fire is contained, or Fire under control, as we say it here.