Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Similar to food spiciness, every person has different tolerance levels, and one person's "perfect" is another person's "I can't even feel anything, it's so dull" - and at the same time, third person's "oh my God my face is melting need water FAST."
The late Mrs Cynic knew a thing or two about eating painfully(1) spicy food, being from the "right next to the Mexican border" parts of Texas (specifically El Paso), and she always recommended milk rather than water, but lots of people haven't ever heard that advice.
(1) She in general didn't think it was "painfully" spicy, but when she made a toned-down version of what she normally ate for some Massachusettsian roommates, their reaction was much like your "third person's" reaction. She kinda drew the line at raw whole jalapeños, though.
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Luhmann ironically, this alone would still be significant improvement to overall health than playing games at home.
Unless it's raining. People say that electricity and water don't mix, and when they do, they always leave out "safely", since it's the very fact that they do mix that's the problem.
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@kt_ said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@kt_ said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
My ex on the other hand was in a different situation, till she finished high school: 11 PM almost at all times. This was pretty annoying and stupid, since we'd still do stupid shit, like get wasted and have sex in her room, I'd just have to remember to leave early.
Doing stupid shit before 11PM is still a whole lot safer than the same activities after midnight. Especially for teenage girls.
Yeah, and before 5 PM it's even safer. It's not the question of "is it safer", it's a the question of "how unsafe it is".
I would go even further - it's not the question of "how unsafe it is", it's the question of "how much unsafety are you willing to put your child in". Similar to food spiciness, every person has different tolerance levels, and one person's "perfect" is another person's "I can't even feel anything, it's so dull" - and at the same time, third person's "oh my God my face is melting need water FAST." It's just something that people will never agree about, simply because they have different tolerance levels of risk/spiciness.
Which is why a one size doesn't-really-fit-anyone law is worse than letting parents decide for themselves
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@Zerosquare said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Otherwise, it's considered a major violation of freedom to move
Clearly you're wrong because every freedom is lesser in Europe than USA USA USA, therefore this can't be affecting freedoms
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Luhmann ironically, this alone would still be significant improvement to overall health than playing games at home.
Unless it's raining. People say that electricity and water don't mix, and when they do, they always leave out "safely", since it's the very fact that they do mix that's the problem.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Similar to food spiciness, every person has different tolerance levels, and one person's "perfect" is another person's "I can't even feel anything, it's so dull" - and at the same time, third person's "oh my God my face is melting need water FAST."
The late Mrs Cynic knew a thing or two about eating painfully(1) spicy food, being from the "right next to the Mexican border" parts of Texas (specifically El Paso), and she always recommended milk rather than water, but lots of people haven't ever heard that advice.
I heard the milk thing is bullshit.
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@Jaloopa said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@kt_ said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@kt_ said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
My ex on the other hand was in a different situation, till she finished high school: 11 PM almost at all times. This was pretty annoying and stupid, since we'd still do stupid shit, like get wasted and have sex in her room, I'd just have to remember to leave early.
Doing stupid shit before 11PM is still a whole lot safer than the same activities after midnight. Especially for teenage girls.
Yeah, and before 5 PM it's even safer. It's not the question of "is it safer", it's a the question of "how unsafe it is".
I would go even further - it's not the question of "how unsafe it is", it's the question of "how much unsafety are you willing to put your child in". Similar to food spiciness, every person has different tolerance levels, and one person's "perfect" is another person's "I can't even feel anything, it's so dull" - and at the same time, third person's "oh my God my face is melting need water FAST." It's just something that people will never agree about, simply because they have different tolerance levels of risk/spiciness.
Which is why a one size doesn't-really-fit-anyone law is worse than letting parents decide for themselves
Those kinds of laws come from the group that think they're better at parenting than other people, and believe that at some point, bad parent becomes worse than no parent. Personally, I think a reasonable bare minimum standard laws are okay - but the problem is, some people have hugely overinflated idea of what a bare minimum is. It's the same issue as with public education, healthcare, speed limits etc.
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@topspin said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@boomzilla I see. What's the name for something like a parking violation?
Infraction
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Similar to food spiciness, every person has different tolerance levels, and one person's "perfect" is another person's "I can't even feel anything, it's so dull" - and at the same time, third person's "oh my God my face is melting need water FAST."
The late Mrs Cynic knew a thing or two about eating painfully(1) spicy food, being from the "right next to the Mexican border" parts of Texas (specifically El Paso), and she always recommended milk rather than water, but lots of people haven't ever heard that advice.
I heard the milk thing is bullshit.
Capsaicin is fat soluble. Something like butter, cheese or fatty meat would be preferred, but whole milk would work better than water. Non-fat milk, not so much.
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@HardwareGeek is 3% fat enough or not?
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A shot of Tabasco is good at washing away some of the spice.
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@mott555 It's like a mosquito bite, where when you scratch it, just before it comes back stronger than before, there's a brief moment of bliss.
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@Gąska It's a real, not a boolean; "enough" is not clearly defined.
The idea is that (given enough time in contact) the capsaicin will be achieve equilibrium between being dissolved in the cells of your mouth and the fat in the food, milk, whatever you're trying to use to remove it from your mouth. The higher the fat content, the more rapidly and completely it will dissolve in the fat of the food. 3% fat in milk will dissolve the capsaicin better than water, but not as well as the 30% fat in cheese.
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@HardwareGeek said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska It's a real, not a boolean; "enough" is not clearly defined.
Battery voltage is also a real, but two AAs aren't going to start my car. I'm asking whether 3% fat is enough to dissolve enough of the capsaicin in mouth for me to feel a difference. I'm asking because I have no clue how much fat is needed.
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@Gąska I don't know. It probably depends on factors like how spicy the chilies are, your individual tolerance for spiciness, and how quickly you drink it.
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@HardwareGeek and here I hoped for some Fermi estimate of how much more capsaicin gets washed away by milk compared to water. I guess you can't have that in biology world. You never can.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining at you not being able to provide answer. It's just that you sounded like you know what you're talking about, and made that distinction between fat and non-fat milk - and I was simply wondering what you mean by that, since natural cow milk has about 4-5%, but the common UHT milk around here is between 1.5% to 3.2%, usually 2%. I just wanted to know roughly at which point it stops being water and starts being milk for the purpose of pain relief. And then I've got pissed at your totally disrespectful assumption that I don't realize that reality - especially biological reality - isn't binary.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
It's basically vandalism and extortion. Why it's so surprising?
It's extortion by threat of vandalism. My understanding is that in its origin (a) the kids were a little older - no three-year-olds dressed as fairies - and (b) the option was "give us a treat or we''ll play a trick on you".
trick or treat, smell my feet,
give me something good to eat.
if you don't, I don't care,
I'll pull down your underwear.Reciting that in the context of today is a little more disturbing than I remember it being....
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
I heard the milk thing is bullshit.
My (very limited) experience indicates otherwise. I don’t like/am not used to (I suppose those two are pretty much interchangeable) spicy foods at all, but occasionally eat crisps of varying degrees of spiciness. One time I had a bag that was very spicy (to my taste buds anyway), I decided to drink milk because I’d heard that helps, and it got rid of the burning sensation on my tongue much better than drinking water or soft drinks ever did.
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
It's just that you sounded like you know what you're talking about, and made that distinction between fat and non-fat milk - and I was simply wondering what you mean by that, since natural cow milk has about 4-5%, but the common UHT milk around here is between 1.5% to 3.2%, usually 2%.
Here in the US, you can get milk in different percentages of fat. So skim milk (0%) is going to be identical to water. As you proceed up the scale (1%, 2%, whole at ~3.5%) you're going to get different values of utility from it.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
So skim milk (0%) is going to be identical to water.
In all aspects.
EDIT: just like American beer.
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
and here I hoped for some Fermi estimate of how much more capsaicin gets washed away by milk compared to water
3% is standard full-fat milk here, and I'm told it helps quite a bit. (I don't drink it myself.) 1.5% isn't as helpful, but it depends on how much you drink, and fully skimmed milk is only around 0.5% and so will be not much help at all unless you drink masses. I suspect it would work except you run out of space in your stomach, especially as there's probably other food in there too.
I prefer to quench the fire with beer when I overestimate my capsaicin capacity. I don't know that it helps much, but after the second bottle I don't care.
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So what do you do to quench the fire at the other end? Does butt-chugging whole milk or consuming sticks of butter rectally help?
(I think I've destroyed all the spice receptors in my mouth. I can now eat foods that send other people to the hospital, and I may not even realize it's that hot, but I always highly regret everything at 3AM the next morning...)
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@mott555 said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
So what do you do to quench the fire at the other end?
I don't seem to have that problem.
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
I hoped for some Fermi estimate ... It's just that you sounded like you know what you're talking about, and made that distinction between fat and non-fat milk
I know what I'm talking about qualitatively but not quantitatively. I know that fat is better than no fat, and more is better than less, but any quantitative I'd give would be no more than a WAG.
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@topspin said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Unperverted-Vixen said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
So skim milk (0%) is going to be identical to water.
In all aspects.
EDIT: just like American beer.
No, American beer has some urea in it too
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@mott555 said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
So what do you do to quench the fire at the other end?
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@mott555 said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
So what do you do to quench the fire at the other end?
FTFY
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@pie_flavor "dupy" is genitive case of "dupa".
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@dkf said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
and here I hoped for some Fermi estimate of how much more capsaicin gets washed away by milk compared to water
3% is standard full-fat milk here, and I'm told it helps quite a bit. (I don't drink it myself.) 1.5% isn't as helpful, but it depends on how much you drink, and fully skimmed milk is only around 0.5% and so will be not much help at all unless you drink masses. I suspect it would work except you run out of space in your stomach, especially as there's probably other food in there too.
I prefer to quench the fire with beer when I overestimate my capsaicin capacity. I don't know that it helps much, but after the second bottle I don't care.
This just cries out for an Ignoble prize! Make it happen!
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@pie_flavor "dupy" is genitive case of "dupa".
TIL. It would have been a good one otherwise, though.
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Good drift. Very good drift. Some people hate fun and for some reason it's illegal to kill them. Whaddya gonna do, I guess Halloween is over.
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@mott555 said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
I think I've destroyed all the spice receptors in my mouth. I can now eat foods that send other people to the hospital, and I may not even realize it's that hot
A friend of mine trained as a cook, and once told me about how one of his teachers always used to complain the food the students made had very little flavour. At one point they decided to put in so much spicy, well, spices that none of the students found it edible themselves. The teacher took a bite and made a remark along the lines of, “Yeah, not bad.”
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@Rhywden said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
This just cries out for an Ignoble prize! Make it happen!
Err, no. Science is great but I've learned to be a little cautious these days. Anything strong enough to genuinely put me off and force me to reach for a quenching drink is also strong enough to give me stomach cramps and to be a bit annoying when cooking (the smoke from dry-frying a strong chilli pepper has a lot in common with pepper spray). I draw the line somewhere before raw bird eye chillies.
I'm happy to laugh at others who go beyond that point…
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@dkf said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Err, no. Science is great but I've learned to be a little cautious these days.
That's why you have Ph.D. students, right? You do the supervising, they do the chilli-smoke-breathing.
Important thing is to know when to lend a hand. I'd consider it fair to assist them by doing the beer-drinking while they do the taste-testing.
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@cvi said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
I'd consider it fair to assist them by doing the beer-drinking while they do the taste-testing.
Do a joint activity with the Beer Appreciation classes.
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
It's basically vandalism and extortion. Why it's so surprising?
Kind of feel like Christmas is extortion as well. Like, I have to buy things for people because other people have bought things for me without me wanting them to. If I ask people not to get me presents, I'm a grinch, or misery guts or whatever. Fuck Christmas. If I believed the myth that Muslims had banned Christmas I'd shake their hands.
I'm just pissed that having money seems to be a distant memory.
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@djls45 said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@cvi said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Did I tell you about the story when a kid from my class got chased by a moose during an orienteering event arranged by the school?
No, you didn't, but I think her brøthër h
âås.
Filed under: "A møøse once bit my sister..."
Edit: øøps, I gøt ninjæd by @cvi by å full 2 dåys
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@Shoreline said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
It's basically vandalism and extortion. Why it's so surprising?
Kind of feel like Christmas is extortion as well. Like, I have to buy things for people because other people have bought things for me without me wanting them to. If I ask people not to get me presents, I'm a grinch, or misery guts or whatever. Fuck Christmas. If I believed the myth that Muslims had banned Christmas I'd shake their hands.
I'm just pissed that having money seems to be a distant memory.
I was just reading a couple of things by C. S. Lewis about the difference between "Exmas" and "Crissmas." These holidays are celebrated on the same day, but with extremely different practices and by two very different types of people. It sounds like you have his same dislike of Exmas and its blatant consumerism.
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@djls45 The abbreviation "Xmas" dates from the 16th century, and the X is a Greek chi standing for Christ (and it's supposed to be pronounced exactly as the full word). So the abbreviation itself is not an attempt at taking the Christ out of Christmas. Feel free to argue that the "Exmass" pronunciation is, however.
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@Steve_The_Cynic said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
The late Mrs Cynic knew a thing or two about eating painfully(1) spicy food, being from the "right next to the Mexican border" parts of Texas (specifically El Paso), and she always recommended milk rather than water, but lots of people haven't ever heard that advice.
One of the first things that most anyone who knows about spicy food will learn is that water does not help alleviate the burn. In fact, it tends to aggravate it. The capsaicin, which is responsible for the heat, is an oily material, so water just spreads it around. Milk has enough fat in it to help dilute the heat and wash it down.
(1) She in general didn't think it was "painfully" spicy, but when she made a toned-down version of what she normally ate for some Massachusettsian roommates, their reaction was much like your "third person's" reaction. She kinda drew the line at raw whole jalapeños, though.
Jalapenos are pretty mild (3,500-8,000 SHU). The first thing I did after getting some raw serrano peppers (10,000-23,000 SHU) was to eat one whole just to see how much kick it had. Same when I got habaneros (100,000-350,000 SHU). Same when I got some dried ghost peppers (around 1,000,000 SHU)... that one had me washing it down afterward, though.
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@HardwareGeek said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Gąska It's a real, not a boolean; "enough" is not clearly defined.
The idea is that (given enough time in contact) the capsaicin will be achieve equilibrium between being dissolved in the cells of your mouth and the fat in the food, milk, whatever you're trying to use to remove it from your mouth. The higher the fat content, the more rapidly and completely it will dissolve in the fat of the food. 3% fat in milk will dissolve the capsaicin better than water, but not as well as the 30% fat in cheese.
Capsaicin is also nearly 100% soluble in alcohol, FWIW.
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@Gąska said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@HardwareGeek and here I hoped for some Fermi estimate of how much more capsaicin gets washed away by milk compared to water. I guess you can't have that in biology world. You never can.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not complaining at you not being able to provide answer. It's just that you sounded like you know what you're talking about, and made that distinction between fat and non-fat milk - and I was simply wondering what you mean by that, since natural cow milk has about 4-5%, but the common UHT milk around here is between 1.5% to 3.2%, usually 2%. I just wanted to know roughly at which point it stops being water and starts being milk for the purpose of pain relief.
@Unperverted-Vixen said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Here in the US, you can get milk in different percentages of fat. So skim milk (0%) is going to be identical to water. As you proceed up the scale (1%, 2%, whole at ~3.5%) you're going to get different values of utility from it.
Any milk will help a little, actually, because the casein protein in milk is also able to bind to fatty compounds. Skim milk still has the casein, so it'd be better than water. However, the fuller-fat milks will be better.
As far as how much of a difference it would make, or whether it'd be a noticeable help... that would probably take personal experimentation.
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@anotherusername said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
As far as how much of a difference it would make, or whether it'd be a noticeable help... that would probably take personal experimentation.
And from there we go to the Nope
thread...
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@anotherusername said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
@Steve_The_Cynic said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
(1) She in general didn't think it was "painfully" spicy, but when she made a toned-down version of what she normally ate for some Massachusettsian roommates, their reaction was much like your "third person's" reaction. She kinda drew the line at raw whole jalapeños, though.
Jalapenos are pretty mild (3,500-8,000 SHU). The first thing I did after getting some raw serrano peppers (10,000-23,000 SHU) was to eat one whole just to see how much kick it had. Same when I got habaneros (100,000-350,000 SHU). Same when I got some dried ghost peppers (around 1,000,000 SHU)... that one had me washing it down afterward, though.
Her objection wasn't really about the strength, though. It was more about the fact that at some point, it's just heat for heat's sake, a sort of culinary equivalent of macho posturing and/or williy-waving, and that didn't interest her.
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@anotherusername said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Jalapenos are pretty mild (3,500-8,000 SHU). The first thing I did after getting some raw serrano peppers (10,000-23,000 SHU) was to eat one whole just to see how much kick it had. Same when I got habaneros (100,000-350,000 SHU). Same when I got some dried ghost peppers (around 1,000,000 SHU)...
What is the top of the sensitivity range of the human body (palate, intestines, rectum...)?
Is it like bitterness in beers, where anything above a couple 100's IBU is just
as we can't taste the difference ?
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@remi said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
What is the top of the sensitivity range of the human body (palate, intestines, rectum...)?
Is it like bitterness in beers, where anything above a couple 100's IBU is just
as we can't taste the difference ?That's a tricky question, but the answer is basically no. First of all, the SHU scale measures concentration of capsaicin; the spiciness will depend on more than just the spiciness of the pepper itself, because as soon as you mix it with something, you lower the concentration. This seems pretty obvious, but a whole pepper is going to have a whole lot more kick than a tiny little sliver of the same pepper.
One key detail is that capsaicin does not physically attack the body or cause a "chemical burn". It merely lights up the nerve endings that scream "FIRE!" and the body responds by increasing perspiration/mucous and producing inflammation. Those nerve endings can actually be stimulated so highly that they overwork themselves and die trying to pump the electrical signal to the brain. However, as capsaicin does not actually damage any tissue the way that actual heat would, the result is just that the sensitivity to heat in that area tends to be decreased. This is why people (inaccurately) say that you can "burn your taste buds off" -- it only affects the cells that sense heat, though; it does not otherwise affect your sense of taste. As a result, all of the symptoms caused by capsaicin are really just the body's own coping mechanisms to a chemical substance that it misidentifies as heat; as it becomes desensitized to it, the reactions will be lessened.
For this reason, the tolerance level tends to increase with exposure. My own tolerance has drastically increased since I started using Carolina Reaper powder that I bought online, and fresh habaneros now seem spicy but not uncomfortably spicy. There's definitely a huge difference between hot and superhot, though. Just go on YouTube and find videos of people who already eat scorching hot foods trying to eat some of the world's hottest peppers; even they experience some serious pain from those.
If you want to try to "safely" experience them, you can always just touch the pepper to your tongue, or chew it up and then spit it out. If you do actually eat them, having eaten something already to dilute the spiciness will help reduce the gastrointestinal discomfort, as well as eating or drinking something afterward. Water does help with this, although it will make the pain in your mouth/throat even worse because it doesn't wash the oil off. (It is not recommended to eat superhot peppers or extremely spicy food on an empty stomach... it can result in violent hiccups, burning and cramping sensations in the stomach, and vomiting.) And for "challenge" sauces or meals, extracts (alcohol can be used to extract capsaicin, and then the alcohol allowed to evaporate out) are sometimes used to make them even hotter.
At the hottest peppers and sauces, though, the question is really just how much of the capsaicin you're eating; an extract will deliver almost pure capsaicin to increase the heat of a sauce without adding much flavor to it, but pure Carolina Reaper can already rival the heat of most sauces. The really crazy sauces can get up to 3M-9M SHU, and at that point even someone who's used to spicy food would have to use them very gingerly and they're really more useful for challenges and such rather than actually eating it regularly -- a few drops would be way too hot for most people.
I somewhat doubt there's a top to the human sensitivity range; it's more just a question of how well you are able to tolerate it before the symptoms make it intolerable. The symptoms do diminish as you get more used to the heat, though, so it's not really just a function of how much pain you're able to endure. I don't know if anyone could condition themselves to, say, withstand pepper spray in the face with minor or no discomfort -- I'd seriously wonder why they'd even want to try, but for all I know, it might actually be possible. We've already reached the point where some of the superhot varieties of peppers (1M-2.2M SHU) have the same concentration of capsaicin as pepper spray, but I've never seen anyone eat one of them without having a pretty serious reaction to the heat.
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@anotherusername Thanks!
It merely lights up the nerve endings
Based on that, I was wondering if at some point all receptors are firing at the maximum and therefore adding more wouldn't change anything to the body's response. But what I get from your answer is that before that point happens (if it ever does), you'll suffer too much pain and other symptoms, or you'll kill the receptors themselves (or both), so in practice there is no maximum concentration.
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@remi Effectively yes, probably. There is probably a point at which every single heat nerve ending is detecting capsaicin, and that would be the theoretical maximum, but I don't know where that would occur, and the perceived heat would probably depend on how many nerve endings there actually were. Some of them are dying, but they also regrow after time, so it's not really a static equation.
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@anotherusername said in Trick or treating can earn you some serious jail time...:
Those nerve endings can actually be stimulated so highly that they overwork themselves and die trying to pump the electrical signal to the brain.
Interesting.
At my job, we went to a local Mexican restaurant a few months ago, and I ordered the "Diablo Enchiladas." Normally, hot food really isn't hot, but everyone including the wait staff was warning me not to get these. I ignored everyone and ordered them anyway.
It was hot. I did finish it, and the wait staff was surprised that I lived through it, but I actually went home sick that afternoon. And ever since then, nothing has really tasted very hot to me anymore. Not even the local Thai restaurant which usually serves food at the upper range of my tolerance.
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@mott555 You can think of it as a handicap or a superpower.
Me, I like to think of it as a superpower...
