EU bans content in online video streaming platforms
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EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services | TechCrunch
The European Union is set to move ahead with a plan to enforce pan-European quotas on streaming services like Amazon Prime Video and Netflix to support
The proposals will require that streaming services give over at least 30% of their on-demand catalogues to original productions made in each EU country where a service is provided (individual EU Member States could choose to set the content bar even higher, at 40%).
The only way this can even be attempted is by arbitrarily picking twice or three times the "content" made by a certain EU member state from your catalog and blocking everything else within that EU member state.
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@ben_lubar Not necessarily. They could probably find enough low quality budgetless rubbish made locally in a lot of countries.
They could probably introduce some system which makes it easier for people to submit their own locally made rubbish and get loads of it.
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...So the move — which will probably draw loud and hair-raising screams from U.S. commentators...
He can't have met many Americans.
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@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar Not necessarily. They could probably find enough low quality budgetless rubbish made locally in a lot of countries.
They could probably introduce some system which makes it easier for people to submit their own locally made rubbish and get loads of it.Just rip it off YouTube.
I can see it now, piano cat from each European country.
This is why Brexit happened...
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@ben_lubar said in EU bans choice in online video streaming platforms:
EU to move ahead with cultural quotas for streaming services | TechCrunch
The European Union is set to move ahead with a plan to enforce pan-European quotas on streaming services like Amazon Prime Video and Netflix to support
The proposals will require that streaming services give over at least 30% of their on-demand catalogues to original productions made in each EU country where a service is provided (individual EU Member States could choose to set the content bar even higher, at 40%).
The only way this can even be attempted is by arbitrarily picking twice or three times the "content" made by a certain EU member state from your catalog and blocking everything else within that EU member state.
Easy. You move capital to your EU based sub-company and finance some projects from there, plus hire some local director as a puppet to sign it as his work. Boom, locally made content.
Or just buy tons of local shitty cheap productions to fill your catalog.
Something similar functions in radio markets in EU (not all countries I think): it's required for every radio station to broadcast at least X% of locally made music. Results are easy to predict, local music plays non stop from midnight till early morning hours, with close to zero listeners.
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@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar Not necessarily. They could probably find enough low quality budgetless rubbish made locally in a lot of countries.
They could probably introduce some system which makes it easier for people to submit their own locally made rubbish and get loads of it.But if you make the entire catalog available to every country, you run out of percentages by the time there are more than 3 member states in the EU.
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@ben_lubar said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar Not necessarily. They could probably find enough low quality budgetless rubbish made locally in a lot of countries.
They could probably introduce some system which makes it easier for people to submit their own locally made rubbish and get loads of it.But if you make the entire catalog available to every country, you run out of percentages by the time there are more than 3 member states in the EU.
In American math, sure. In superior European maths we have more percentages available.
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@ben_lubar Not sure how this has changed, but on top of being more expensive it's much shittier everywhere else
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@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar Not necessarily. They could probably find enough low quality budgetless rubbish made locally in a lot of countries.
They could probably introduce some system which makes it easier for people to submit their own locally made rubbish and get loads of it.But if you make the entire catalog available to every country, you run out of percentages by the time there are more than 3 member states in the EU.
In American math, sure. In superior European maths we have more percentages available.
Are the laws of European mathematics more or less powerful than the laws of Australian mathematics?
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@coldandtired said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar Not sure how this has changed, but on top of being more expensive it's much shittier everywhere else
With this EU ruling, expect the catalog to become more shitty, not less.
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@ben_lubar said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar Not necessarily. They could probably find enough low quality budgetless rubbish made locally in a lot of countries.
They could probably introduce some system which makes it easier for people to submit their own locally made rubbish and get loads of it.But if you make the entire catalog available to every country, you run out of percentages by the time there are more than 3 member states in the EU.
I'm guessing they mean it will be localized. So, if you're watching in France, you'll see 30% French content, if you're in Germany it will be 30% German content. In each of those countries, the remainder will just be the mainstream stuff. Germans won't see the French content, and vice versa.
Still insanely stupid, but not as stupid as if they were expecting each country to have 30% of the content, since that would be mathematically impossible. Not that I'd put it past idiots in European government to make such an obvious mistake, of course.
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@loopback0 Real 'Murcans wouldn't touch those Metric percentages.
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@ben_lubar said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar Not necessarily. They could probably find enough low quality budgetless rubbish made locally in a lot of countries.
They could probably introduce some system which makes it easier for people to submit their own locally made rubbish and get loads of it.But if you make the entire catalog available to every country, you run out of percentages by the time there are more than 3 member states in the EU.
In American math, sure. In superior European maths we have more percentages available.
Are the laws of European mathematics more or less powerful than the laws of Australian mathematics?
Yes
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"Funny" thing is, Netflix after stabilizing its presence in Europe started making content locally on it's own. Not cheap shitty catalog fillers, but quality content they wanted to make money on. Their reasoning was that firstly now they have access to local talent pools, which can be great, secondly european audiences may react more favorably to content with a bit of local character.
And they were right. This is how we got things like Hotel Beau Séjour, Casa de Papel and Dark.
EU is now saying something like "Stop doing quality stuff right now! Fill your service with shit!".
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Just out of curiosity, what kind of "shit" are we expecting? I mean, there are so many kinds:
- Generic Sitcom/Drama: Just some run-of-the-mill family sitcom or a police drama that sparks drinking games where you take a shot each time someone says "enhance" in whatever language it's in.
- Hallmark Channel Drivel: Feel-good TV shows starring the most washed up actors euro-Holywood has. Having been forced to watch these with my grandmother in law, I nearly hung myself right in the living room.
- Soap Operas
- Birdemic: The miniseries
- The equivalent of Public Access Cable For those of you who don't know what this is, the only good thing that came out of Public Access Cable was MST3K. All the other shows are just random people who rent their local cable company's studio to do whatever is fit for TV. Kinda like vlogging, but somehow even more lame. I don't think they exist anymore, but they were a big thing in the 1980s and 90s.
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@MrL said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
EU is now saying something like "Stop doing quality stuff right now! Fill your service with shit!".
Gotta support the local shit producers.
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The idea's been around for a while
Netflix and Amazon face quota on EU-made content
On-demand video streaming services face a call that at least 20% of the catalogues they offer to EU subscribers should be made locally.
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@coldandtired said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
Real 'Murcans wouldn't touch those Metric percentages.
You'll be OK; just use 36% instead of 30% and 22½% instead of 20%. Instant customary unit support!
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@The_Quiet_One said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
I don't think they exist anymore
They appeared to still be there last year in Houston. After a while I decided that I wasn't drunk enough to keep going with that and changed channel to The YetAnotherCop/X-Files-Ripoff Show.
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The EU is not banning content. It is enforcing content. Thread title is stupid.
Anyway, rule is stupid. National TVs already pay for lots of homegrown shit. For my tastes, online streaming is terrible anyway. I have Netflix and I don't know why I'm paying for it. I don't watch serials (maybe just one every now and then), and films are few and they're all crap.
By the way, here in Italy local content is really popular. Like, extremely popular. And that's even after dubbing in our own language (no subtitles)¹. This is true also about music. I've never seen such success in the Italian music scene in the last twenty-odd years. I mean, we've always had our local schlock, but the big stars were usually foreign. In this past couple of years, the big names are local, formerly "indie" pop acts that have managed to keep some of their street cred and have made it really big. I hate it, Italian music is crap. We can cook, we can make fast cars but we can't make good pop and rock music. (With a few exceptions).
¹ in Eastern Europe they apparently do something absolutely hilarious (paging the Polish guys here). They neither use subtitles, nor they really dub the stuff, but they have like a speaker, always the same speaker (regardless of the gender of the character who is speaking) talking over the original soundtrack. We do this for low, low, low cost American shows (you know, the kind of crap MTV or "Bravo" or all those shitty channels show), but at least we have a few (teeeerrible) voice actors. Imagine it doing it for like an all-time classic.
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
¹ in Eastern Europe they apparently do something absolutely hilarious (paging the Polish guys here). They neither use subtitles, nor they really dub the stuff, but they have like a speaker, always the same speaker (regardless of the gender of the character who is speaking) talking over the original soundtrack. We do this for low, low, low cost American shows (you know, the kind of crap MTV or "Bravo" or all those shitty channels show), but at least we have a few (teeeerrible) voice actors. Imagine it doing it for like an all-time classic.
Now all you have to do is paste green screen animations of local people re-enacting the scene over the top of the video, and instant local content.
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
in Eastern Europe they apparently do something absolutely hilarious (paging the Polish guys here). They neither use subtitles, nor they really dub the stuff, but they have like a speaker, always the same speaker (regardless of the gender of the character who is speaking) talking over the original soundtrack. We do this for low, low, low cost American shows (you know, the kind of crap MTV or "Bravo" or all those shitty channels show), but at least we have a few (teeeerrible) voice actors. Imagine it doing it for like an all-time classic.
Indeed. The volume of the lektor is only slightly higher than the original voice because it's the cheapest option. This, coupled with the translations made by 18-year-old interns, means that my job is secure for as long as I want it.
Try and find one with the guy narrating a sex scene - "Yes. That's it. More:" etc., all spoken without any attempt at emotion or intonation.
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
¹ in Eastern Europe they apparently do something absolutely hilarious (paging the Polish guys here). They neither use subtitles, nor they really dub the stuff, but they have like a speaker, always the same speaker (regardless of the gender of the character who is speaking) talking over the original soundtrack.
We have all three, subtitles, dubbing and speaker. Their popularity varies and changes over time.
Speaker is a television thing, never used in cinemas. Subtitles are almost exclusively for cinemas, never on tv, apart from multiple soundtracks to choose from on some channels. Dubbing gains popularity, first it was used for children movies, now for some time it shows more and more in others.Speaker may sound hilarious for people not used to it, or when it's done badly. I like it very much - you can hear original soundtrack and you don't have to read subtitles. Actors play with their voices as well as with their bodies/faces, dubbing replaces it with some else's voice, that's awful.
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@MrL said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
¹ in Eastern Europe they apparently do something absolutely hilarious (paging the Polish guys here). They neither use subtitles, nor they really dub the stuff, but they have like a speaker, always the same speaker (regardless of the gender of the character who is speaking) talking over the original soundtrack.
We have all three, subtitles, dubbing and speaker. Their popularity varies and changes over time.
Speaker is a television thing, never used in cinemas. Subtitles are almost exclusively for cinemas, never on tv, apart from multiple soundtracks to choose from on some channels. Dubbing gains popularity, first it was used for children movies, now for some time it shows more and more in others.Speaker may sound hilarious for people not used to it, or when it's done badly. I like it very much - you can hear original soundtrack and you don't have to read subtitles. Actors play with their voices as well as with their bodies/faces, dubbing replaces it with some else's voice, that's awful.
I prefer subtitles. You don't have another voice over it partially obscuring the original audio anyway and it takes very little to get used to glancing at them.
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@MrL said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
¹ in Eastern Europe they apparently do something absolutely hilarious (paging the Polish guys here). They neither use subtitles, nor they really dub the stuff, but they have like a speaker, always the same speaker (regardless of the gender of the character who is speaking) talking over the original soundtrack.
We have all three, subtitles, dubbing and speaker. Their popularity varies and changes over time.
Speaker is a television thing, never used in cinemas. Subtitles are almost exclusively for cinemas, never on tv, apart from multiple soundtracks to choose from on some channels. Dubbing gains popularity, first it was used for children movies, now for some time it shows more and more in others.Speaker may sound hilarious for people not used to it, or when it's done badly. I like it very much - you can hear original soundtrack and you don't have to read subtitles. Actors play with their voices as well as with their bodies/faces, dubbing replaces it with some else's voice, that's awful.
I prefer subtitles. You don't have another voice over it partially obscuring the original audio anyway and it takes very little to get used to glancing at them.
Yeah, I think speaker would be pretty bad in cinemas, that's why it's never used there.
Hmm, come to think of it, I'm not sure it wasn't used in cinemas in the past, like 30 years ago and earlier.
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
The EU is not banning content. It is enforcing content. Thread title is stupid.
If the content was already there at a reasonable price, Netflix would be offering it. Therefore, to meet the percentage, Netflix needs to cut their catalog in those countries, as expanding it is not feasible. Therefore, the EU is banning content.
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Comparison of narrators.
Porównanie lektorów #7 - Na krawędzi (Cliffhanger) - 1993 [7 Lektorów] – 04:31
— Kukuś Arts
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
¹ in Eastern Europe they apparently do something absolutely hilarious (paging the Polish guys here). They neither use subtitles, nor they really dub the stuff, but they have like a speaker, always the same speaker (regardless of the gender of the character who is speaking) talking over the original soundtrack.
You can find a bunch of those on YouTube, complete Hollywood or Western European movies with some guy speaking Russian over the dialogue. It's always the same guy. Unlike somebody's comment, though, it's always loud enough to completely obscure the original dialogue.
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@The_Quiet_One said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@loopback0 said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@ben_lubar Not necessarily. They could probably find enough low quality budgetless rubbish made locally in a lot of countries.
They could probably introduce some system which makes it easier for people to submit their own locally made rubbish and get loads of it.But if you make the entire catalog available to every country, you run out of percentages by the time there are more than 3 member states in the EU.
I'm guessing they mean it will be localized. So, if you're watching in France, you'll see 30% French content, if you're in Germany it will be 30% German content. In each of those countries, the remainder will just be the mainstream stuff. Germans won't see the French content, and vice versa.
From the abstract, this sounds like a French idea, since I know they have that for broadcast radio.
A percentage of everything broadcasted must be French. That is French language, made by a French producer and French artists on French soil. Or something along those lines.
And yes, that means they'd have to limit the amount of foreign material published if it would push the percentage of foreign material in the catalog too high.
I'm also surprised because based on mathematics this requires discriminating between citizens of different EU countries. And the EU typically isn't fond of that either.
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@PleegWat said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
I'm also surprised because based on mathematics this requires discriminating between citizens of different EU countries. And the EU typically isn't fond of that either.
If it were 30% of content must be of EU origin, well the EU's pretty big and that would be a low bar to jump over. Netflix could do that without losing content at all.
The "each country" part of this really makes it stupid.
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@Unperverted-Vixen said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
The EU is not banning content. It is enforcing content. Thread title is stupid.If the content was already there at a reasonable price, Netflix would be offering it. Therefore, to meet the percentage, Netflix needs to cut their catalog in those countries, as expanding it is not feasible. Therefore, the EU is banning content.
Hardest dive – 01:18
— No Comment TV
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@xaade said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
This is why Brexit happened...
I'm pretty sure that was "we want our cake and eat it too."
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@PleegWat said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
A percentage of everything broadcasted must be French. That is French language, made by a French producer and French artists on French soil. Or something along those lines.
And in practice, this is often implemented stupidly. For example, radio stations could use the quota to broadcast lesser-known domestic artists who would enjoy the exposure. Or just play lesser-known songs from popular domestic artists. But no. They'd rather air the same overplayed songs again and again, even during the night.
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@topspin said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@xaade said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
This is why Brexit happened...
I'm pretty sure that was "we want our cake and eat it too."
If only the top brass would understand that if they continue they might not even get dessert.
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I can't wait to see a (metric) shitload of Bob and Doug type content. (Retirez, hein?)
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@coldandtired Quantity != quality. If the percentage of US titles is considered a quality measure, then I beg to differ. I absolutely loathe that rubbish; the likes of orange is the new black, homeland, stranger things, house of cards - I tried them all, and I just could not watch that shite. Feels like all of them are made for people with the mindset of a 14 year old.
...to be fair, though, I hate most snot nosed european (which is where I'm from) shows as well :-D
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@MrL said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
Subtitles are almost exclusively for cinemas, never on tv,
Blame collective SECAM trauma.
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@El-Dorko said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
Feels like all of them are made for people with the mindset of a 14 year old.
Fight me.
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@JBert said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@topspin said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@xaade said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
This is why Brexit happened...
I'm pretty sure that was "we want our cake and eat it too."
If only the top brass would understand that if they continue they might not even get dessert.
Well, they might be happy not to get their just des
serts.
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@JBert said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
If only the top brass would understand that
Our top brass couldn't understand their way out of a wet paper bag.
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@pie_flavor said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@El-Dorko said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
Feels like all of them are made for people with the mindset of a 14 year old.
Fight me.
Bite me. ;-)
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@El-Dorko said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@pie_flavor said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
Fight me.
Bite me. ;-)
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@El-Dorko said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@coldandtired Quantity != quality. If the percentage of US titles is considered a quality measure, then I beg to differ. I absolutely loathe that rubbish; the likes of orange is the new black, homeland, stranger things, house of cards - I tried them all, and I just could not watch that shite. Feels like all of them are made for people with the mindset of a 14 year old.
...to be fair, though, I hate most snot nosed european (which is where I'm from) shows as well :-D
I don't agree with all you said (I wouldn't say House of Cards is that childish), but in general these shows all have a certain element of "woah, cool!", "edgy!" and/or address "your inner child". Like, Stranger Things, it's unashamedly a very stylish kid's show and it's winking and nudging all the way through to their millennial audience who feel nostalgia for an era they may (or may not!) have lived as a child. But look at your parents or grandparents. Would your parents or grandparents actively seek such material for themselves? Would your parents and grandparents obsess over it? Or let's even extend the debate, take the obsession over the Marvel universe. Fucking comics, that you'd have been embarrassed to read in public, like, twenty or thirty years ago, as an adult (look at Comic Book Guy character from the Simpsons). The truth is that most of us are really all growing up later, and thirty is really the new twenty under certain aspects.
Snot-nosed European crap? I give you: Sorrentino!
The Great Beauty Official Trailer #1 - Paolo Sorrentino Movie HD – 02:09
— Rotten Tomatoes Trailers
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
I don't agree with all you said (I wouldn't say House of Cards is that childish), but in general these shows all have a certain element of "woah, cool!", "edgy!" and/or address "your inner child". Like, Stranger Things, it's unashamedly a very stylish kid's show and it's winking and nudging all the way through to their millennial audience who feel nostalgia for an era they may (or may not!) have lived as a child. But look at your parents or grandparents. Would your parents or grandparents actively seek such material for themselves? Would your parents and grandparents obsess over it? Or let's even extend the debate, take the obsession over the Marvel universe. Fucking comics, that you'd have been embarrassed to read in public, like, twenty or thirty years ago, as an adult (look at Comic Book Guy character from the Simpsons). The truth is that most of us are really all growing up later, and thirty is really the new twenty under certain aspects.
Exactly.
Snot-nosed European crap? I give you: Sorrentino!
The Great Beauty Official Trailer #1 - Paolo Sorrentino Movie HD – 02:09
— Rotten Tomatoes TrailersThis movie is absolutely brilliant. In my top 10 of all time.
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@MrL said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
I don't agree with all you said (I wouldn't say House of Cards is that childish), but in general these shows all have a certain element of "woah, cool!", "edgy!" and/or address "your inner child". Like, Stranger Things, it's unashamedly a very stylish kid's show and it's winking and nudging all the way through to their millennial audience who feel nostalgia for an era they may (or may not!) have lived as a child. But look at your parents or grandparents. Would your parents or grandparents actively seek such material for themselves? Would your parents and grandparents obsess over it? Or let's even extend the debate, take the obsession over the Marvel universe. Fucking comics, that you'd have been embarrassed to read in public, like, twenty or thirty years ago, as an adult (look at Comic Book Guy character from the Simpsons). The truth is that most of us are really all growing up later, and thirty is really the new twenty under certain aspects.
Exactly.
Snot-nosed European crap? I give you: Sorrentino!
The Great Beauty Official Trailer #1 - Paolo Sorrentino Movie HD – 02:09
— Rotten Tomatoes TrailersThis movie is absolutely brilliant. In my top 10 of all time.
I prefer his older stuff. La Grande Bellezza is an unfunny parody of what made Sorrentino. It's an overlong, self-referential, bloated wankfest that strongly points at the possibility that Sorrentino masturbates looking at himself in a mirror. There are some good parts, and if he had cut, say, half the material, I'd agree, but there is too much pretentious snottery that I can't overlook. Besides, the snide, stylish disdain of the world has grown old. I suppose that, if you have never seen anything by Sorrentino, then it's great because you don't know what to expect.
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
I prefer his older stuff. La Grande Bellezza is an unfunny parody of what made Sorrentino. It's an overlong, self-referential, bloated wankfest that strongly points at the possibility that Sorrentino masturbates looking at himself in a mirror. There are some good parts, and if he had cut, say, half the material, I'd agree, but there is too much pretentious snottery that I can't overlook. Besides, the snide, stylish disdain of the world has grown old. I suppose that, if you have never seen anything by Sorrentino, then it's great because you don't know what to expect.
So in other words which of his films you like, depends on order of viewing, because he's repetitive?
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@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
they have like a speaker, always the same speaker (regardless of the gender of the character who is speaking) talking over the original soundtrack
We used to have these in documentaries too. It was bizarre. But our movie dubbers are good, often they are better than the original soundtrack. Our simpsons are best simpsons.
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@MrL said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@admiral_p said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
I prefer his older stuff. La Grande Bellezza is an unfunny parody of what made Sorrentino. It's an overlong, self-referential, bloated wankfest that strongly points at the possibility that Sorrentino masturbates looking at himself in a mirror. There are some good parts, and if he had cut, say, half the material, I'd agree, but there is too much pretentious snottery that I can't overlook. Besides, the snide, stylish disdain of the world has grown old. I suppose that, if you have never seen anything by Sorrentino, then it's great because you don't know what to expect.
So in other words which of his films you like, depends on order of viewing, because he's repetitive?
Not necessarily 100%, but there is a strong correlation in my opinion. I think his best film is Il Divo, but it's practically impenetrable to foreigners because it's about Andreotti, an infamous leading Italian politician.
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@El-Dorko The only good entertainment from Europe are spaghetti westerns. (And spaghetti Superman knock-offs, and spaghetti Conan knock-offs, and spaghetti Mad Max knock-offs, and etc. you get the point.) Most of which starred David Carradine or Donald Pleasence for some reason.
EDIT: oh and The Apple, that was German I think.
Set in the dystopic far future of 1994.
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@blakeyrat said in EU bans content in online video streaming platforms:
@El-Dorko The only good entertainment from Europe are spaghetti westerns. (And spaghetti Superman knock-offs, and spaghetti Conan knock-offs, and spaghetti Mad Max knock-offs, and etc. you get the point.) Most of which starred David Carradine or Donald Pleasence for some reason.
The best western of all time is The Good, The Bad and The Ugly. Like, no contest. Maybe Once Upon a Time in The West comes close.
Anyway, untrue. Italian and French cinema in the golden era was extremely good. We lost it some time after the '70s though. (At least Italy).
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