"Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents
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@topspin said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@thecpuwizard said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
Seems that it was a violation if one installed a copy which that specific person did not download from their site!
WTF kind of wankery is this? Only lawyers could come up with something that stupid.
And indeed that was the case. Seems that after the legal team was done with the phraseology, nobody with a deep technical background [and the skills to properly understand "legalese"] review/approved.
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@topspin said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@thecpuwizard said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
Seems that it was a violation if one installed a copy which that specific person did not download from their site!
WTF kind of wankery is this? Only lawyers could come up with something that stupid.
It seems to me that this kind of thing is rather common in free-as-in-beer software licenses; the software is available to download for free, but the license agreement includes phrases like "for your own, personal use" and/or forbids redistribution, which AIUI amounts to more or less the same thing.
Couldn't cite a specific product right now, but I have a tendency to at least skim through license agreements before clicking "I Agree", and I'm pretty sure I've repeatedly seen terms along these lines.
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@ixvedeusi said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
It seems to me that this kind of thing is rather common in free-as-in-beer software licenses; the software is available to download for free, but the license agreement includes phrases like "for your own, personal use" and/or forbids redistribution, which AIUI amounts to more or less the same thing.
That is one form. But he situation I was talking about had interesting twists. Perhaps the most strange that came up: The "Mr. X" downloaded some software, that only he was going to use; however, he did not have admin permissions to install. So "Ms. Y" was called over to run the installation of the software that X had downloaded (and was going to be the sole user of). This was declared a violation.
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@thecpuwizard said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
"Ms. Y" was called over to run the installation of the software that X had downloaded (and was going to be the sole user of). This was declared a violation.
Ok now that's just weird. Why would they even bother checking such things? What do they hope to gain from enforcing such terms?
ETA: Or was the point just to kill your project?
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@ixvedeusi said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@thecpuwizard said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
"Ms. Y" was called over to run the installation of the software that X had downloaded (and was going to be the sole user of). This was declared a violation.
Ok now that's just weird. Why would they even bother checking such things? What do they hope to gain from enforcing such terms?
ETA: Or was the point just to kill your project?
Not so much that they would ever be checking, much more about creating and publishing practices that do not violate any terms or agreements. Remember if a dispute ever does arise between companies, the one with the bigger legal budget will almost invariably win.
Eventually a very convoluted and complex approach was found which would have allowed the project to continue from a technical standpoint. However it was deemed to be "so bad" that the project has been deferred indefinitely [which IMPO is a shame because I believe it would have provide much value to a wide audience + income to my firm].
There are surely vast numbers of people who violate this every day. Odds of them getting caught are probably lower than winning the major Lottery Jackpot...but that does not change the basic legality.
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@thecpuwizard said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
Perhaps the most strange that came up: The "Mr. X" downloaded some software, that only he was going to use; however, he did not have admin permissions to install. So "Ms. Y" was called over to run the installation of the software that X had downloaded (and was going to be the sole user of). This was declared a violation.
You know what? That's when it's time to kill all thought of using that software. Not on the basis of whether the program is any good or not, but just to make sure that you never have to deal any more with those asshat lawyer jerkbags. Sometimes it just plain isn't worth the trouble.
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@jbert said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@dkf said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
(The aim is for them to tag your number in their system as a line that they really shouldn't be calling on work time.)
Just be careful that they don't start calling you during the late hours...
The problem is 90% of those are robocalls. So there's no person to talk to. (If I actually get a person, "Please take me off your list." <click/>)
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@dkf said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@dragnslcr said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
If someone steals your car, your loss is the value of the car (maybe more, such as for lost time and/or wages, but never less).
But if someone goes joyriding in your car and crashes it into the front of your house, have you lost it?
It depends on how much damage there is. If your insurance company totals the car, then yes. Otherwise, damages are the cost to repair it (plus the cost of repairing your house).
Keep in mind, though, that the concept of damages is a civil litigation issue. In criminal law, the exact amount of money involved usually doesn't matter, it's only used to put the crime into a broad category, such as misdemeanor vs. felony.
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@thecpuwizard said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@shoreline - There are some interesting ones....
A certain large, well known company offers free (but licensed) software for "download, installation, and use". During a project about 2 years ago, the word "and" from that part of their license came into play. Seems that it was a violation if one installed a copy which that specific person did not download from their site!
This sparked some very serious discussions about what that really meant in terms of various caches, etc. While there was a concession that the license was problematic and had many unenforceable aspects, they were standing by it (though they also stated they would review - but it has not changed as of now).
As a result, the project was canceled. Pretty sure that this scenario exists in many places (and that people violate it on a regular basis).
Does this large company happen to have their own category on WTDWTF?
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@dragnslcr said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
If your insurance company totals the car, then yes
Most insurance contracts require you to do take reasonable measures to protect the insured item. So if you left the car open with the key on the ignition, even if the incident is considered theft your insurance will probably say "LOL nope" anyway.
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@hungrier said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@bb36e said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@cabbage said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
4chan
If he's been engaging in correspondence with such a notorious hacker, then I think it's quite clear that this boy is extremely dangerous and may attack at any moment, so we must deal with it
He's being crushed by the full force of the law
:smiling_face_with_open_mouth_closed_eyes: :smiling_face_with_open_mouth_closed_eyes: :smiling_face_with_open_mouth_closed_eyes: :smiling_face_with_open_mouth_closed_eyes: :smiling_face_with_open_mouth_closed_eyes:
Filed under: HPC for the win!
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@anonymous234 said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@carnage said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
Not the first time I've heard of government leaving documents out where the public has easy access and getting all of sahara in their collective cunts over people actually reading the documents they have access to.
It's like leaving your car in the street with the doors wide open and the keys in the ignition, it's incredibly stupid but it's still illegal for someone to take it.
Not quite. If you take someone's unlocked car, then the car is gone. You now have it, and the owner cannot use it anymore.
This guy copied documents that were left out in the open, so to bring your analogy in line with the situation:
It's like leaving your car in the street with the doors wide open and the keys in the ignition, it's incredibly stupid but it's still illegal for someone to
take ituse a laser scanner to make a 3d model of the car, and then use an industrial 3d printer to produce a replica of it.<> Oops, Ben said something similar up thread. I guess I shouldn't reply before reading the entire thread. </>
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@ixvedeusi said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@dragnslcr said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
If your insurance company totals the car, then yes
Most insurance contracts require you to do take reasonable measures to protect the insured item. So if you left the car open with the key on the ignition, even if the incident is considered theft your insurance will probably say "LOL nope" anyway.
That is true, though you could probably still file a civil lawsuit. In that case, your insurance company's report would probably be used to determine the amount of damages.
But that's starting to get into specific details that aren't all that relevant to the "hacking" case.
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@onyx said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
all you have to do is report them
How do you do that when all you have is a spoofed number in your call history?
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@tsaukpaetra said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
How do you do that when all you have is a spoofed number in your call history?
Even if they spoof the number, they can't spoof ANI, so the cops can get the real originating number
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@timebandit said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@tsaukpaetra said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
How do you do that when all you have is a spoofed number in your call history?
Even if they spoof the number, they can't spoof ANI, so the cops can get the real originating number
But then that leads to the massive amount of work for a
@onyx said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
all you have to do
knee-jerk statement.
If it were this easy, don't you think people would have done it by now?
I could make similar statements about spam emails. "Well, they can't spoof the originating server headers, so the internet cops can get the real originating server!" Why is spam still a thing then, eh?
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@tsaukpaetra said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
If it were this easy, don't you think people would have done it by now?
It's easy for you, a lot of work for the police
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@timebandit said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@tsaukpaetra said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
If it were this easy, don't you think people would have done it by now?
It's easy for you, a lot of work for the police
Which leads to popo .
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At least
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I wonder if the government would have so quickly started a lawsuit if it discovered Google was crawling the site too....
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@dkf said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@erufael said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
Does that constitute legal permission though?
That in itself doesn't, but uploading the documents to a publicly-accessible location might do. It'd be something for the defence lawyer to try…
Actions are legal by default. So if he was given permission by a 200, it becomes that much harder for the prosecution to claim he wasn't given permission.
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@tsaukpaetra said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
I wonder if the government would have so quickly started a lawsuit if it discovered Google was crawling the site too....
Doubt it. The point was that they weren't linked anywhere, he was just decreasing the numbers in the URL to access other documents.
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@pie_flavor said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
@tsaukpaetra said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
I wonder if the government would have so quickly started a lawsuit if it discovered Google was crawling the site too....
Doubt it. The point was that they weren't linked anywhere, he was just decreasing the numbers in the URL to access other documents.
Ah, but any
goodmisbehaved spider will try the things, it all the hot air about AI is to be believed.
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@tsaukpaetra said in "Hacking" Teenager in trouble - for downloading public documents:
I could make similar statements about spam emails. "Well, they can't spoof the originating server headers, so the internet cops can get the real originating server!" Why is spam still a thing then, eh?
International emailing is (essentially) free, calling isn't.