Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh)
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@remi my sim has no pin so I haven't seen that one. The one I'm talking about is the one that decrypts the drive so it can boot.
Which btw, is Android yet another os where full disk encryption is some awful hack? Is windows the only os that gets that right?
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@blakeyrat Oh, OK. Btw, is that a third possible different PIN for a phone (after the one for the SIM and the one to unlock it), or is it necessarily the same as the one to unlock?
If it can be different, then I can vaguely imagine how the devs could have come up with a different UI. If it's the one to unlock, then no excuse.
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@remi the point is in Windows you decrypt the drive with the same credentials you log in with, so there's only one login. Like how it should obviously work
Turn on full disk encryption on Android 7 then reboot to see what I'm talking about.
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@blakeyrat I've never used a Windows phone, so I wouldn't really be able to compare if I did (also, I have no idea where that encryption is configured... not in an obvious place, I did not see anything about it...).
Anyway, I'm with you on this: it should be the same credentials, and the UI should be the same. As a user, you shouldn't have to care about that. But since I'm not sure what you are seeing, and whether this is the case or not, I can't say more than that.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@remi the point is in Windows you decrypt the drive with the same credentials you log in with, so there's only one login. Like how it should obviously work
Turn on full disk encryption on Android 7 then reboot to see what I'm talking about.
I'd think that it's because Android separates the boot-loader (which pops up the disk encryption pad) from the OS (because lots of people replace the bootloader so they can flash custom OSs, a supported case). In principle there could be a separate PIN, but in practice there rarely is.
On Windows, the boot loader is integrated into the OS (and so can hand-over control seamlessly). That's why if you dual boot with a separate boot-loader, BitLocker doesn't work quite right.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@laoc the keypad on it is arranged differently. It's not just a cosmetic change, it's reimplimented.
Yeah, it has a checkmark in place of "OK", it's black on grey instead of white on psychedelic vomit, and the frequently used "EMERGENCY CALL" button is on top instead of bottom. I can see how that would be confusing enough for you to merit a rant.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
Why is the PIN entry screen you get after booting up the phone totally different than the one you get if the phone is running and locked? WTF. It's like they went out of their way to make things inconsistent and confusing.
Because one is running before the OS loads and one is after. It's like when you turn on BIOS-level HDD lock and have a totally different password dialog appear.
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@laoc different is different. The same code written twice = bug central
It's a road sign that says "we didn't bother planning or designing anything"
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@laoc different is different. The same code written twice = bug central
It's a road sign that says "we didn't bother planning or designing anything"
You've been told the reason, twice.
But@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
Is windows the only os that gets that right?
So you're saying this:
is the same code and no different from Windows' regular login dialog?
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@laoc I've never seen that on any PC I've used bitlocker on.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@laoc I've never seen that on any PC I've used bitlocker on.
I have. According to Wikipedia it's called "User authentication mode" and it's the one used by people who don't have or don't want to rely on a TPM (wisely, as it just turned out).
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@laoc Well aren't you Mr. Super Security Master Man.
Android's still a poorly-designed piece of shit.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@laoc Well aren't you Mr. Super Security Master Man.
Android's still a poorly-designed piece of shit.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
Android's still a poorly-designed piece of shit.
Blakeyrat is always right?
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@laoc said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
wisely, as it just turned out
from that link, and a link in that article...
How the $#&^ does the government of some random former Soviet Bloc Smallcountristan properly do disclosure, while Equifax (and companies like them with far more resources) don't?
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@laoc said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
I have. According to Wikipedia it's called "User authentication mode" and it's the one used by people who don't have or don't want to rely on a TPM (wisely, as it just turned out).
It also appears if you change freaking anything about the platform (hardware devices, one setting in the BIOS...). Good luck finding that recovery key again after five years or so.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@sloosecannon said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
You just play one on TDWTF
You don't have to be a good actor to spot a bad one.
Blakeyrat = the villain from Galaxy Quest ???
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@masonwheeler the good guy in Galaxy Quest said that. Also it was a well known saying before that movie. Also you are wrong in every way it's possible to be wrong.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@masonwheeler the good guy in Galaxy Quest said that.
Oh, did he? I guess it's been too long since I saw that. :(
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Stupid Android question. I've been doing this for like weeks now and it occurred to me I'm not 100% sure what I'm doing.
You get a call. You drag the icon on the home screen that looks like a red phone hung up.
Does that hang up on the caller? Or send them to voicemail immediately?
As a Windows Phone user, I've been assuming that it sends them to voicemail, but it occurred to me that I really have no idea what it does, and Android seems designed stupidly enough that it might include a button that hangs up without giving the caller a voicemail prompt.
Also since there's like zero contextual help or guidance or anything in Android, how the fuck are you supposed to learn what these icons actually do? The phone didn't ship with a manual and there's no on-screen help system I can find.
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@blakeyrat It does the same thing as hanging up on an incoming call without picking it up will do on any phone. If you have voicemail, the carrier will send that call to voicemail.
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@hungrier said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@blakeyrat It does the same thing as hanging up on an incoming call without picking it up will do on any phone.
You can't hang up on a call before picking up the call, that's gibberish nonsense. The red phone icon does something, and it looks like a hang up icon, but since you can't hang up a call you haven't answered it could do literally anything. Maybe it calls Batman, who knows.
(Windows Phone calls that action "ignore" which is what you're actually doing. You're ignoring the incoming call. Of course absolutely nothing Android does was even slightly thought-through so they use wrong and stupid terminology/iconography...)
@hungrier said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
If you have voicemail, the carrier will send that call to voicemail.
This is the correct answer I found out, as one of those spam callers actually left a voicemail and answered it for me. (See WTF Bites thread.)
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
You can't hang up on a call before picking up the call, that's gibberish nonsense. The red phone icon does something, and it looks like a hang up icon, but since you can't hang up a call you haven't answered it could do literally anything. Maybe it calls Batman, who knows.
You're right, Drax, a landline rotary phone won't let you drop a call without picking it up. But cellphones have had a red button* that lets you do that for decades, and it's a natural enough feature that, even if you weren't familiar with cellphones, you could figure it out.
* before you point out my obvious error here, I do know that the button may not always be red
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@hungrier If you're going to bother with a metaphor (for example, hanging up a phone) you should at least make the metaphor make sense.
I'm sure everybody here's chomping at the bit to call me an idiot moron dumbass etc. all over again, but the fact is that this is yet more bad design from Android, a badly-designed OS which is complete shit.
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@blakeyrat It's not bad design from Android because it's not any design from Android. It's a standard cellphone feature.
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@hungrier said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@blakeyrat It's not bad design from Android because it's not any design from Android.
Bullshit.
@hungrier said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
It's a standard cellphone feature.
If I run a restaurant, and I smear dog shit all over my hamburgers, and someone says, "your hamburgers suck because you smeared dog shit all over them!" it's not a defense to reply, "but the restaurant across the street also smears dog shit all over their hamburgers."
In any case, I'm not talking about the feature. (Duh. Windows Phone had the same feature.) I'm talking about the user interface, which is shit. Windows Phone's interface called this same action "ignore" which makes about 20,000 times more sense than an icon of a phone hanging up.
Are there any Android users who aren't constantly in the thrall of Stockholm Syndrome? Certainly none at Google, or this OS would suck a bit less I imagine.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
but the fact is that this is yet more bad design from Android, a badly-designed OS which is complete shit.
Today I learned that Google badly designed a feature that Apple implemented on their phones before Android was a thing.
Oh and Blackberry supports it too, and non smartphone cellphones, and touchtone phones that have a handset with an answer call and endcall button.
and it's apparently bad design that the end call button ends the current call, even when you havent actually picked up the phone yet (which was fucking handy back in the aughts when cellphones with unmetered call time contracts were rare as rockinghorse shit. If you answered the call you got charged for the time of the call, usually starting from when the phone rang, rounded UP to the next minute. but if you declined the call by pressing end call without answering you weren't charged)
but then i'm always wrong, blakey says it's bad design by android so he must be right.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
I'm talking about the user interface, which is shit. Windows Phone's interface called this same action "ignore" which makes about 20,000 times more sense than an icon of a phone hanging up.
You're right, Phil, those idiots at Android sure made a dumb design deci
Oh
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Yes yes I am stupid retarded dumber than dirt that amoeba has a better IQ score than I do, etc etc.
Please, we all know how fucking retarded I am. Give it a rest already.
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@accalia said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
and it's apparently bad design that the end call button ends the current call, even when you havent actually picked up the phone yet
You can't end a call that hasn't started. Again: that's gibberish nonsense.
You can ignore a ring.
Now heap more abuse on me, because obviously those two short factual statements indicate how fucking utterly stupid and moronic I am.
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@hungrier said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@blakeyrat It does the same thing as hanging up on an incoming call without picking it up will do on any phone. If you have voicemail, the carrier will send that call to voicemail.
This. As far as I know, your phone can't decide whether or not to send a call to voicemail. It's a feature that's implemented on the carrier's systems, and your phone can't alter their behavior.
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@dragnslcr No. The technology to differentiate between "the callee didn't pick up" and "the phone stopped ringing" didn't exist pre-cellphone.
The only reason that old cellphones used the red hangup button to mean "ignore this call" is because they had physical buttons and limited space to put them in. To continue doing that on a smartphone screen with soft-buttons and HD resolution is retarded.
"We've always done it this way" is never a valid reason to do anything.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
Windows Phone's interface called this same action "ignore" which makes about 20,000 times more sense than an icon of a phone hanging up.
No it doesn't. Why would that make more sense, when the icon assigned to that button since the beginning of cellphones has been a red "hung up" phone? WHY WOULD YOU CONFUSE THE USERS?
@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
Are there any Android users who aren't constantly in the thrall of Stockholm Syndrome?
Stockholm Syndrome implies there is something wrong with the situation. Which is not the case here.
@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
You can't end a call that hasn't started. Again: that's gibberish nonsense.
Actually, you can. That's what that icon means.
@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
You can ignore a ring.
Another way of putting the same thing.
Wait, should the OS differentiate between the two? Who's confusing the users again?
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
"We've always done it this way" is never a valid reason to do anything.
YES IT IS, when users expect the old action.
Which is exactly what is happening here.
For someone who seems to think UX is important, you're very willing to confuse people for no good reason.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
I'm sure everybody here's
chompingchamping at the bit to call me an idiot moron dumbass etc. all over again, but the fact is that this is yet more bad design from Android, abadly-designedwell-designed OS whichis complete shit.has problems like literally everything else but I REEEEEE at because I can.FTFY
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@sloosecannon said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
"We've always done it this way" is never a valid reason to do anything.
YES IT IS, when users expect the old action.
Which is exactly what is happening here.
For someone who seems to think UX is important, you're very willing to confuse people for no good reason.
Obviously, the only correct way to do something is the way with the Blakey Seal of Approval Anything else is wrong and stupid and horrible and retarded and wharrgarbl.
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@accalia said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
but the fact is that this is yet more bad design from Android, a badly-designed OS which is complete shit.
Today I learned that Google badly designed a feature that Apple implemented on their phones before Android was a thing.
Oh, FFS, could you be more pedantic?
Copying a bad design and using it in your product is bad product design.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
The only reason that old cellphones used the red hangup button to mean "ignore this call" is because they had physical buttons and limited space to put them in. To continue doing that on a smartphone screen with soft-buttons and HD resolution is retarded.
That was an amazing recovery. Not only do you now remember that Google didn't invent the design but you now know exactly why the design existed and why Google should have changed it.
I'm starting to think it's not the Android users that have the Stockholm Syndrome but the Windows Phone user in this thread. Which is understandable to a certain extent, I guess, I'm sorry the OS you're used to is being discontinued... but the amount of angst about it is really a bit excessive.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
"We've always done it this way" is never a valid reason to do anything.
Says the Microsoft fanboy.
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Oh come on, what was that, only like 8 posts of abuse? Come on. Heap it on me. I'm stupid! I'm completely worthless! I should kill myself right now! Keep it coming guys.
There's nothing like a web forum to encourage the free exchange of ideas, as long as the idea is "wow that Blakeyrat guy is a stupid worthless idiot who I hate".
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@blakeyrat Could you clarify, exactly, what it is this post is attempting to say? Because it sounds like, and I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're saying 'I know I'm wrong, and my only defense is that you guys say I'm wrong too much'.
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@pie_flavor It's saying I'd like people to actually discuss ideas instead of calling me an idiot, but since that never happens I just go with it.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
@pie_flavor It's saying I'd like people to actually discuss ideas instead of calling me an idiot, but since that never happens I just go with it.
Well, your ideas are 'this thing is wrong and stupid, and the entire platform it exists on is wronger and stupider', not anything approaching logic.
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@blakeyrat vivo phone are the best value for money.
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@nagesh I bought it months ago.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
I just want the feature. I don't care if it's an "app" or "widget" or "froozlebrang." Implementation-details do not interest me.
Now I want a phone that support froozlebrangs
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@sloosecannon said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
No it doesn't. Why would that make more sense, when the icon assigned to that button since the beginning of cellphones has been a red "hung up" phone? WHY WOULD YOU CONFUSE THE USERS?
That would confuse old users for a while. But it would be better for new users immediately, and better for everyone after a short while. You people have trouble admitting when blakey is right.
@blakeyrat I don't see these problems because my first headphone was an Android. Being used to windows phone you should expect to miss some features. Maybe you found something you like about Android at this point, or do you still hate it? I wonder if I would like an iPhone better, but that shit is too expensive.
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@sockpuppet7 said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
Maybe you found something you like about Android at this point, or do you still hate it?
Here's something I "like" about Android:
Since this phone is so shitty, I use my phone way less.
If I'm waiting for takeout I won't bother whipping out my phone to check Fark or something, I'll pick up one of the magazines. When I'm driving, I don't listen to podcasts any more because I know it takes like 56 taps and slides and what-not to even open the list of them in shitty Android, so I just turn on the radio and listen to the news.
Android is so shitty it's completely defeated any "phone addiction" I may have had. Now it's basically just a phone and text machine and occasional camera, and I barely ever touch it.
The only thing I was slightly excited about was "oh I can play my mainstream vidya games on a phone now" until I found out all of them require logins and all of them lose their logins every 36 nanoseconds and you have to just constantly type in the passwords over and over instead of playing the games and you know what fuck that I'd be better off carting my fucking Vita around.
And for the record, I'm not missing "some" features from Windows Phone, I'm missing boatloads of features. All the ones mentioned in this thread and more besides. Android is unbelievably shitty.
And, BTW, it's been like 8 fucking months on this thread, but since you reminded me of it: You still can't "hang up" on a call you haven't answered yet. That. Doesn't. Make. Sense. I don't care how long phones have used the wrong icon for this, that doesn't make it the right icon. My question about what the hang up icon does when a call is still ringing and hasn't yet been answered was 100% valid and reasonable.
But hey, call me a fucking retard some more. I love it. Hell, actually literally call me on my phone to call me a retard. Why not. I'd get some use out of this fucking useless hunk of plastic.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
And, BTW, it's been like 8 fucking months on this thread, but since you reminded me of it: You still can't "hang up" on a call you haven't answered yet. That. Doesn't. Make. Sense. I don't care how long phones have used the wrong icon for this, that doesn't make it the right icon. My question about what the hang up icon does when a call is still ringing and hasn't yet been answered was 100% valid and reasonable.
Your question is reasonable. Your assertion about the how much sense it makes is not.
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@blakeyrat said in Recommend to me a cellphone (running Android I guess, sigh):
Android is so shitty it's completely defeated any "phone addiction" I may have had.
I find that to be true too. Right now I use my phone to make/receive calls and as a mobile hotspot. That's all I ever use this phone for.