CHEAP WOW GOLD!!!
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@stratos said:
Oh come on, that's just risk, and with every investment there is risk. Also despite what game companies might report, the risk seems to be rather small seeing as game-gold trading companies seem to flourish.
A significant, unnecessary risk with significant consequences.@stratos said:
Also what other points? You are yet to make a point in my opinion.
That's your opinion, and I'll give it the same respect I've given the rest of your opinions.@stratos said:
All your arguments seem to have their beginnings in the "boohoohoo gold sellers are ruining my game" group of arguments.
Smashing point there. Not sure where that's coming from at all. All your arguments seem to have their beginnings in the "I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about" group of arguments.
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I used to play WoW. The people who paid for gold, items, and levels never disturbed my enjoyment of the game. Of course, a significant part of that was because I spent most of my time significantly below max level - I ended with an average level of something like 30 across the 9 classes (yes, I know there are now more classes, but there were only 9 when I quit.) While it did disturb the enjoyment of many of the other players around me, from what they said about it, I am pretty sure it was mostly because they felt they were being passed by these individuals who were taking a short cut. Of course, at the upper end, there was annoyance because these individuals would go on raids or into battlegrounds with people who had been playing for years, and they'd have no clue how to control their character.
However, most of these people didn't go on raids (unless, of course, someone recognized the name of a previously encountered 'quiet but skilled' raider when they were looking for another raid member, and invited them specifically). They would get involved with PvP, however - the battleground interface was simple enough one could figure it out fairly easily - much easier than working out what all these spells do or how to enable said spells. However, nobody enjoys being killed as quickly as many level 70 noobs (I quit before the last expansion pack) would, so they didn't go into the battlegrounds often.
Of course, I should point out, there were exceptions. For example, I knew one guy who leveled two characters to 60 (the limit at the time) and then paid to have a third leveled to 60. Despite his short cut, he was nearly as competent with the third character as the other two. Of course, part of that was the fact that, immediately after picking his account back up, he went on training exercises with a few close friends, followed by some concerted battleground experience. He knew enough about the game it was just a matter of picking up the different aspect. (Specifically, he'd tanked and DPSed before, how he was a healer.) But I never heard anyone complaining about the exceptions - it typically wasn't that easy to identify them.
There were also exceptions with the experienced characters. One member of my guild at level 70 decided to fetch Onyxia's whelplings on one retro-raid. On another retro-raid, someone nearly duplicated Leroy Jenkin's infamous suicide run, except that the rest of us recognized it and disengaged immediately. Several of our priests were known to fall asleep mid-raid (some of us learned to watch to see if they followed the group after leaving an area. Others of us had higher than normal repair bills...) And there were always individuals who would decide to play drunk or high every so often or let their 5 year-old play for a while (I'm not saying 5 year-olds can't play WoW. I'm saying this particular 5 year old wasn't good enough to raid successfully - although I played with his level 30 on some stuff, and he could handle 5-man dungeons fairly well).
Oh, and the whole gold farming thing was quite ridiculous as a complaint point - because of it, one could farm the auction house for gold, as many people who purchased gold were inexperienced enough with the game to not know the proper prices of goods, nor apparently knew that the auction house interface listed many pages of goods. So long as the front page was dominated by really bad deals, people would go for them. (I used two of my characters (one Alliance, one Horde) to simply buy cheap goods and resell them at much higher prices. I could write an entire post about the bad economical sense people demonstrated with their auction house activities.)
My reason for quitting was that Blizzard kept disabling addon features which took the tedium out of the game, and tweaking the game such that addicts would pressure casual gamers to either play more or quit. I'm not complaining about changes they made to the auction house - they only aided my efforts, because I knew what my merchandise would sell for, and I knew how to find the gold seller's reasonably priced goods. (At least while I played, many gold seller accounts were shared. The gold sellers were paid for the gold they made, not the value of goods they acquired, so they sold the goods priced to move before the end of their shift.) Of course, when I quit, I ended up taking a lot of gold out of circulation... not that gold in my characters' hands circulated that much.
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@belgariontheking said:
and can be shortened still by fellowshipping together
I think that's the big reason I could never get in to LOTRO. Why not a simple word like 'grouping'? Yeah, I get the book title reference. I'm saying it's lame, and will most likely result in drawing in people who like lame references - and thus, I don't want to be there.
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@tgape said:
I used to play WoW.
after reading your post, i think you should've started with : "Hello my name is tgape and I'm an addict. (Hello tgape). Its been xxx months since my last raid .... "
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@tgape said:
@belgariontheking said:
It's not a reference to the book title at all. It's a reference to the actual story, just like the book title was a reference to the actual story.and can be shortened still by fellowshipping together
I think that's the big reason I could never get in to LOTRO. Why not a simple word like 'grouping'? Yeah, I get the book title reference. I'm saying it's lame, and will most likely result in drawing in people who like lame references - and thus, I don't want to be there.However, there were lame references, in that rather than guilds, they are kinships. I mean, kinships? we certainly aren't related. That's what kins are, right? That, I always thought, was lame, but fellowship is only troublesome because it's longer to say/type.
They avoided terms like unique, epic, whatever else there was for items in WOW because they wanted to distance themselves from WOW. A little lame, but made more lame by the fact that they didn't really give them names at all. They're "normal," "yellow," "purple," and "blue" as far as I know.
So they have lame references, but I don't consider Fellowship to be one of them.
And now for some rambling that has nothing to do with your post.
As for distancing themselves, I feel they've done it sufficiently, for better or for worse. I recently started playing WOW (playing and paying my own way on a friend's account while he's off in Army training) and the experience is pretty different, especially graphically. WOW is very cartoony, which has its own allure. LOTRO is much more graphically appealing to me, though. No neon skin and (not as many) comical enemies. They're both fantasy worlds, and Blizzard did right by their world, and Turbine did right by Tolkein's world.
For now, I don't worry so much about getting the best item or whatever. I don't even know what the best items are. Sure, they have set bonuses and all that crap but I don't care. I'll stick with what I got until a better drop or quest reward comes along because it's more fun that way. IMO once you feel like playing a game is tedious or "work" and not "a game," you should put that game down. You're missing the point of the game. I know a guy who grinded his way to 55 or so. He did very few quests and just grinded. I never saw the point of that. Quests make the game fun, especially fellowship quests.A few months ago they lowered the xp requirements for each level. I don't know why. I assume it's because they wanted the game to be more fun, and making it easier could make it more fun and retain more players. I assume there was an announcement regarding why they did it, but I didn't read it.
One thing I wish Turbine would allow is transferring characters to another account. My wife's characters are on my account, and I would like to a) be able to play while she's playing and b) be able to play with her in LOTRO. I understand the reasons for not allowing that, though.
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@tgape said:
And there were always individuals who would decide to play drunk or high every so often...
I'd have to be under the influence to play. I'd be fine, though. It doesn't impair my forum posting, after all.
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@Nelle said:
@tgape said:
I used to play WoW.
after reading your post, i think you should've started with : "Hello my name is tgape and I'm an addict. (Hello tgape). Its been xxx months since my last raid .... "
I don't know how long it's been, and I don't care. I used to hang out with some people who became real addicts, and thus spent far more time on WoW than was sane to spend time with them. Eventually, it became obvious there was no way I could participate enough to satisfy them and keep my sanity.
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@amischiefr said:
@Vechni said:
What's WoW ...
credited to the guy with the wierd looking avatar
You mean this guy?
That's not the real WoW, that's just a sham WoW....
- Rick
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@RocketRick said:
That's not the real WoW, that's just a sham WoW....
- Rick
0wned. Now I have a good reason to buy a new keyboard.
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As a gross simplification, I think we can say that MMORPG players derive their enjoyment from two things: achieving and owning. Most players enjoy from both of these to varying degrees, but I'm inclined to think that the average leans more towards owning. Achieving often leads to owning, but takes time. Thus, if a person enjoys owning a lot more than achieving, they're inclined to try and skip the time-consuming part. Another person may see the achievement of obtaining an item all by himself worth the time.
Owning does not take any space in the game environment. Once you have the item, it's in your inventory and you can brag with it to your hearts content while standing in the town square. Achieving does take space - there's only so many bosses around that drop the coveted golden Sword (or whatever ultimate item), only so many areas that are good for leveling. Achievers and owners can coexist in coexist in the same world.
But then we hit the problem - for an owner-type player to get an item, he has to either spend time (which he hates), or buy it from an achiever. Buying requires gold, which is obtained through achieving. This creates a market for selling in-game gold for real-world money. And since that gold has to come from achieving, farming it takes space from the achievers who would like to enjoy the game in their own way.
I'm pretty close to the achiever end of the spectrum. The value I give to my possessions is quite directly proportional to the effort spent in acquiring them. In the MMORPG I play (Anarchy Online) there is a small number of players offering to get certain items for others in exchange of ingame money. This is legal, since it stays within the ingame economy. I have not use those services, since it would take the enjoyment out from obtaining the item, but other people making use of them does not really bother me. The most trouble I get from credit sellers is having to ignore their advertisements.
It should be noted that the EULAs in most MMORPGs strictly prohibit any sort of trade of in-game goods based on real-world monetary transactions, so the gold sellers are in direct violation of the license agreement. Unfortunately it's rather hard to determine with certainty whether a large in-game transaction is a gold seller or simply a player transferring gold from one of his characters to another, and differences in legislation between countries makes it hard to go after the websites they run.
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I develop a pretty popular Diablo 2 mod, and I have come to the conclusion based on player behaviour that RPGs as a genre are not about providing meaningful gameplay or an actual challenge, but only about identifying with your character and owning enemies. The most fun is to be had by being overpowered and mowing down everything.
Think about it - would you play WoW if your character was a wind-up robot?
The 'challenge' in the gameplay is to survive the boredom of grinding levels for ages until you've achieved this goal. That's why people hate paid content or microtransactions - it's like the people who pay for a shortcut got the reward without the 'challenge', which is almost like aimbotting in an FPS. They beat you to the goal of being overpowered without suffering through the grind.
Games like this are no longer games (as in challenges to overcome), but lowest common denominator bottom feeding escapism. And it expands to other genres - Prototype, Burnout, ...
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@Brother Laz said:
I develop a pretty popular Diablo 2 mod, and... [etc]
+1 agree
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I'm surprised that, in this entire thread, no one has yet mentioned that most of the Epic and Legendary items in WoW can't be bought... once you get them, they can't be traded to others. These are referred to as "Bind when acquired" or "Soulbound."
Unfortunately, Blizzard had the great idea at one point to switch to a token-based system to buy items from "Tier" armor sets. Of course, the tokens can be traded... and gold will definitely help you there.
I'm not sure how this gold seller expects you to get season 6 items from them, since you need to fight other teams in the arena to get arena points for those; gold does you no good for that.
Also, someone in the thread (too lazy to check who) said that their friend paid someone to level up their character for them: This is a good way to get your character's (non-Soulbound) items and gold stolen.
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@powerlord said:
Also, someone in the thread (too lazy to check who) said that their friend paid someone to level up their character for them: This is a good way to get your character's (non-Soulbound) items and gold stolen.
(It wasn't me)I didn't think about that, but that's also a good reason not to buy one of those "auto grinders." No telling what the program will do with your money and tradeable items. Then Blizzard (or whatever company is operating the MMO) can't do anything because they can never determine whether that transaction was planned outside of the game. I've heard of this happening with bots purchased for M:TGO.
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@powerlord said:
Also, someone in the thread (too lazy to check who) said that their friend paid someone to level up their character for them: This is a good way to get your character's (non-Soulbound) items and gold stolen.
That was me. As I understand it, he handed all of those items to the guild quartermaster before engaging the service (yeah, he did it with the guildmaster's knowledge. The guildmaster's response was along the lines of, "You're getting a level 60 healer? Want me to contribute?"). (Well, all the non-soulbound items that mattered. He didn't bother with things like his bolted wool. However, he also made sure that the contract he had with them indicated that he had x gold heading into the deal, and would have x gold at the end, and that they wouldn't be logging in with his three existing characters. He let them know that he was in a guild with over 300 members, who all knew those three characters well, so people would notice if he popped on during his backpacking trip.)
Also note that 'Soulbound' is any "Binds when picked up" OR any "Binds when equipped" that's actually been equipped once. Not that soulbinding things is much protection. Another player in our guild had his account hacked, while he was over at a friend's house, and got to see his character strip naked at a vendor, for the vendor price on those soulbound items. (Actually, a number of us got to see that, as it was about 30 minutes until raid time - or so we'd thought.) On the bright side, someone learned not to use the same password everywhere...
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@powerlord said:
I don't know if this applies to WoW too, but in AO it's common for people to sell/buy lootrights for nodrop items (AO equivalent to soul-binding). Some items are 100% drop from a certain boss, so those can be sold with ample time before the kill; in other cases there's 30 minutes to sell the item before the corpse rots. And then there are people selling services to obtain items: they repeatedly kill the boss until the item you want drops, and you pay a certain amount of credits for each kill.I'm surprised that, in this entire thread, no one has yet mentioned that most of the Epic and Legendary items in WoW can't be bought... once you get them, they can't be traded to others. These are referred to as "Bind when acquired" or "Soulbound."
