What OS do you use for work?



  • Without starting a flame war i was just wondering what OS people use for work? 

    I left Windows for Ubuntu a few years ago when i stopped working as a .net developer but everyone else in my office uses OSX(except for me).  I get the feeling a lot of web developers left Windows in that massive gap between XP and 7 just wondering if everyone else has experienced a similar exodus from Windows to linux and OSX over the last few years in the dev community?

    I must say I really like win7 on the odd occasions when i use it but that huge delay in bringing out a new OS meant that i'd already shifted and probably won't go back until i start work as a .net dev again or MS comes up with something spectacular.

    Are there many of you still on XP?  Back when i was .net devving we basically skipped vista because none of the corporate clients were planning on shifting from XP anytime soon so i was still using XP for work long after vista arrived.

    Please no flaming, I know this is a contentious issue, i am just genuinely interested.

    Also as a bonus +10 internets to the first person to use M$ instead of MS



  • Well, first of all, competent IT departments deployed Vista machines, so the gap between XP and 7 is only really massive if you're one of those "we still have intranet apps that require ActiveX!"-WTF companies. Windows 7 only exceeded Vista's marketshare only a couple of weeks ago. (Although it is true that XP still has about a 50% share.) With that out of the way...

    The only two supported OSes in our office are Windows and OS X. And they don't buy OS X desktops (I asked), so that means... taa-daa... Windows! Fortunately, we do have a pretty competent IT staff, so I got Vista at work about 9 months after it was released, and I just recently got upgraded to Windows 7.

    Advantages of Windows for my work:
    1) Runs every web browser known to man. At least all the ones > 0.5% share. (Note that this wasn't true before Apple ported Safari to Windows, though-- it was very frustrating trying to beg/borrow/steal a Mac to QA our JavaScript on Safari a few years ago, especially since Safari had so fucking many JS bugs.) Old IE versions I run in VMs, which is neither more nor less painful than running old IE versions in any other OS.
    2) Runs SQL Server Management Studio. Regardless of my preference in OS, I have to deal with SQL Server every single day... I'd basically shoot myself if I had to use Toad for that. (Incidentally, what *do* Mac users use for this?)
    3) Runs IIS/ASPX locally. Again, regardless of my preference in OS, I have to hack away at ASPX apps. And occasionally windows services.
    4) Runs all the bespoke software we use. This can be done in another OS, of course, but then we're back to using the VM. Which is goofy.
    5) You can generally find pretty good GUI software for all the various "stuff' we do. Invalidating Akamai caches, dealing with Amazon S3/EC2.
    6) Fucking Fiddler. To a lesser extent, fucking NetMon.
    7) All of the non-developer people in the office use (and assume) Windows anyway. You never have to ask stuff like "hey could you re-send that XLSX as a XLS file? Thanks." Or, "I know you wanted screen-sharing for this meeting, but I can't find a client for my OS."

    I definitely wouldn't mind having something like Coda for JavaScript development, though... anybody know something like that? (Already tried and rejected Apatana, and VS's auto-complete in JavaScript leaves much to be desired.)

    @JesusChrist said:

    Also as a bonus +10 internets to the first person to use M$ instead of MS

    You can't give yourself Internets. Nice try, though!



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Well, first of all, competent IT departments deployed Vista machines, so the gap between XP and 7 is only really massive if you're one of those "we still have intranet apps that require ActiveX!"-WTF companies
     

    Yep i was doing mainly government work(until last year) so that pretty much sums up every system they use, with a sprinkle of access 97 + VB6 for good measure.

    Yeah i just run a bunch of VM's for IE testing and we don't have to support IE6 at all!  happy days.  I'm working on LAMP stacks at the moment so LAMP and gedit with chrome and firefox get the job done, amazingly we don't have any bespoke software i need to deal with, we're a new and small company so no legacy win 32 VB6 crap to contend with.  The one thing i really miss switching from .net is visual studio and the SQL server manager, visual studio is a great bit of software, although i haven't used it since the 2008 release i can imagine the 2010 is even better. 

     @blakeyrat said:

    (Incidentally, what do Mac users use for this?)

    Not sure what OSX guys use for this, there are a few ok options for Ubuntu although none as enterprisey(in a good way) as SQL Server Management Studio.  i usually end up just running MySQL from the command line most of the time, most small - medium sized web apps have a fairly small db with < 25 tables with a pretty obvious structure so CLI is fine most of the time.  Plus using Codeigniter MVC framework means i rarely even touch the db or write any sql at all apart from the create table statements, although our new db deployment software even abstracts that away so in  the new release i'll touch the database even less.

      @blakeyrat said:

    I know you wanted screen-sharing for this meeting, but I can't find a client for my OS.

     On Ubuntu i generally use skype for this.

    @blakeyrat said:

    hey could you re-send that XLSX as a XLS file? Thanks.

    I can honestly say since i left corporate and goverment work i haven't dealt with any xlsx files, although i'm pretty sure google docs will handle it fine.

    And in the end if you are doing .net you're going to have to use windows, i figured when writing web apps the target platform(server wise) is Ubuntu so i may as well use that, less nasty surprises during deployment that way.

    @blakeyrat said:

    @JesusChrist said:
    Also as a bonus +10 internets to the first
    person to use M$ instead of MS

    You can't give yourself Internets. Nice try, though!

     

    lol, just thought i could slashdot up the place a bit

     



  • @JesusChrist said:

    On Ubuntu i generally use skype for this.

    Our clients always send us either WebEx or LiveMeeting invites. I've heard of clients using Skype, but I've never actually seen it in person. WebEx might run in Linux, but I'm pretty sure LiveMeeting won't.

    It sounds like you don't work with clients at all, though... no legacy bespoke apps... somehow can tolerate using MySQL through a CLI... somehow can tolerate using a web-based office suite... so you're asking kind of a funky question. Sure, *you* can use Ubuntu, but I think pretty much everybody in the rest of the corporate world is going to need Windows, or at least OS X (to get a full copy of Office) for something or another.

    There's also the whole, "I work with a bunch of people who care about software usability" thing. If we switched to Ubuntu, we'd all pretty much go insane.

    @JesusChrist said:

    And in the end if you are doing .net you're going to have to use windows, i figured when writing web apps the target platform(server wise) is Ubuntu so i may as well use that, less nasty surprises during deployment that way.

    Yeah, but after spending a few months with ASPX? There's no way I'd go back to PHP. No way in hell. I'd rather drink paint.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Yeah, but after spending a few months with ASPX? There's no way I'd go back to PHP

    Yeah i thought that too, i started my career on php and then switched to .net and now back to php just because the work was more interesting, i got really sick of coding up shit like:

    if payment has not been made to x by y date but account type isn't such and such and there hasn't been a reversal made within 2 business days of the last payment in this calendar month ........

    just couldn't give a shit anymore, now i do product development for a bunch of VC's, "social" apps and the like which has it's own kind of lameness but i find much more tolerable.

    But in the end i'm pretty language and OS agnostic, i just use whatever the project requires.

    @blakeyrat said:

    somehow can tolerate using MySQL through a CLI.

    as i said it's maybe once a fortnight i actually need to run a query against the db, the MVC takes care of that stuff so it's really only very occasionally when doing things like adding a column so i just never bothered to install anything GUI to do it.

    @blakeyrat said:

    somehow can tolerate using a web-based office suite

    I just have to read word docs or spreadsheets not write them, so openoffice or google docs does the trick, in fact even when i did use windows at work i only usually had the office readers for word and powerpoint installed, no point dropping a bunch of cash on a licence for something you hardly use.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Sure, you can use Ubuntu, but I think pretty much everybody in the rest of the corporate world is going to need Windows, or at least OS X (to get a full copy of Office) for something or another.

    I'm by no means saying people should use Ubuntu or work necessarily it's just that at my current workplace no-one uses windows and it's the first place i've ever seen where anyone has used anything but windows and i was kind of surprised(especially when they said i could use whatever OS i wanted to), just wondering if it's something that is common for other people too.

    @blakeyrat said:

    There's also the whole, "I work with a bunch of people who care about software usability" thing. If we switched to Ubuntu, we'd all pretty much go insane.

    when was the last time you used Ubuntu? the usability has been the main focus of the last 2 years and it has come along leaps and bounds in terms of ease of use, IMHO i'd say it's on par with windows usability wise these days, especially with the new app store, pretty UI etc. Seriously, it's worth checking out, I always had that "I tried linux 5 years ago and it was hard to use and crap" attitude but just installed it one day because i was setting up a firewall/gateway and figured i'd save a windows licence by using Ubuntu and was really surprised at how sweet it was so when i started dealing with Ubuntu servers for work i figured i'd move all my dev across and haven't looked back since. But that's kind of off topic, i don't want to get into which os is better than that one etc. just interested to hear how others get their shit done.



  • We still have a few on XP, some on Vista (like me), some sales folk have macbooks, and one or two have 7.



    We basically use what comes with the PC when we get it. I was on XP until a year ago, when I got a brand new computer. My coworker got a new blazing laptop six months ago, and it came with 7.



    While it's a far cry from a consistent OS policy, having "done" it this way for forever has really confirmed that the OS makes fuck-all difference for web development, with the occasional rare hiccup such as having to install ASP Classic manually if you're on Vista+ and work on a legacy project.



    We have one guy that's pretty competent on Linux sysadminning, but generally we do not do Linux.



  • when was the last time you used Ubuntu? the usability has been the main focus of the last 2 years and it has come along leaps and bounds in terms of ease of use, IMHO i'd say it's on par with windows usability wise these days, especially with the new app store, pretty UI etc. Seriously, it's worth checking out,

    I'm trying, but my POS play-computer just lost its CD drive, and I don't have a replacement, and somewhy it won't boot from USB stick, even though BIOS setup recognizes it as an option when it's plugged in. Maybe I prepared the LiveCDStick incorrectly, though.



  • @dhromed said:

    my POS play-computer just lost its CD drive

    There are apps to run an .iso as a virtual disk drive without having to burn it. Not sure that will work installing an OS, of course. VMware takes an .iso to create a new VM, so anytime I want to work or play with Ubuntu, I'm good.

    EDIT: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation#Installation without a CD

    Which leads me to:

    @blakeyrat said:

    using the VM. Which is goofy.

    Why?



  • @b-redeker said:

    There are apps to run an .iso as a virtual disk drive without having to burn it. Not sure that will work installing an OS, of course. VMware takes an .iso to create a new VM, so anytime I want to work or play with Ubuntu, I'm good.
     

    I was able to put the iso into VirtualPC, but I couldn't get it to go past 800×600, and graphic performance was cunt, so it wasn't a stellar experience. VMWare requires an account for their free shit, I believe. I fatigue of Yet Another Account, and haven't had the gumption since.



  • @b-redeker said:

    EDIT: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation#Installation without a CD
     

    All articles and tool manuals like these are annoyingly hazy on the difference between an "Ubuntu LiveCD USB Stick" and an " USB Stick with the .iso unpacked to it.", which I think is zero.


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @dhromed said:

    I was able to put the iso into VirtualPC, but I couldn't get it to go past 800×600, and graphic performance was cunt, so it wasn't a stellar experience. VMWare requires an account for their free shit, I believe. I fatigue of Yet Another Account, and haven't had the gumption since.
    Add VirtualBox to the list for next time - it's what I use to get Windows running under Linux. (And used to be vice-versa.)


  • Discourse touched me in a no-no place

    @dhromed said:

    All articles and tool manuals like these are annoyingly hazy on the difference between an "Ubuntu LiveCD USB Stick" and an " USB Stick with the .iso unpacked to it.", which I think is zero.
    The end difference is usually zero, but how it does it differs between the two.



    The LiveCD route has the ISO which is unpacked into memory as a complete file-system with what amounts to 'a sparse differences file between the ISO and what you've done to change the FS' overlaid on top. (Potentially duplicating content if you 're-install' something for example.) See unionfs for an example.



    The second has the FS on the USB which is modified directly.



    It's the difference between a read-only file system with read/write diffs overlaid, and a read/write filesystem.



  • @dhromed said:

    I couldn't get it to go past 800×600

    VMWare has no problem with Ubuntu on 1920x1200.

    As to graphic performance, I have a totally different reference frame than you (I hardly know the difference between Arial and Verdana). For me, Ubuntu is exactly the right amount of shiny without being annoying; having read your posts, you might think very differently :-)



  • @b-redeker said:

    I have a totally different reference frame than you (I hardly know the difference between Arial and Verdana). For me, Ubuntu is exactly the right amount of shiny without being annoying; having read your posts, you might think very differently :-)
     

    I was referring to actual performance, not how shiny it looks. :) As in, responsiveness on the order of tens of seconds, sometimes whole seconds. It was a VirtualPC issue.

    That said, I believe the latest version looks like shit. As in, the actual color. They should have named that theme 'Feces'.



  • @PJH said:

    It's the difference between a read-only file system with read/write diffs overlaid, and a read/write filesystem.
     

    Thanks for that intel, but I was referring to the bootability of the item. An .iso is basically equivalent to a .zip with 0% compression, isn't it? Put the contents on the stick and yer done, right? No special tools needed.

    I'm just trying to eliminate various causes of why I couldn't boot it from USB.



  • @PJH said:

    Add VirtualBox to the list for next time
     

    Can Do, chief.



  • @b-redeker said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    using the VM. Which is goofy.

    Why?

    So we have a bespoke app that pulls in a bunch of images, paints a heatmap on top of them, and feeds them into a PowerPoint file. I'm on Linux, running this app in a VM... ok so I need to feed it images. How do I do that? Well, it's in a VM, so if I'm lucky I can mount the native Linux filesystem in the guest OS-- but oh wait I can't because Windows doesn't read ext filesystems. So I have to set up a network share just to feed files into the damned bespoke app... now I'm thinking, well the files are just webpage screenshots, and since IE is the most popular browser, I should probably take the screenshots in IE. (Adding to this little rant, I have no clue whether there's an app like SnagIt on Linux.) So now I'm taking the screenshots and running the bespoke app inside the VM. Now I need to save the resulting file-- it's a PPT. Which I can't even read in Linux. So to check that the file is correct, I need to open it in the VM as well... I can't check that in Linux because 1) none of the Linux office suites have full PPT support, 2) changing the file type doesn't work because it needs to ship to the client as PPT so they can open it. So I'm doing that in the VM also. And, hell, since I'm in the VM all this time, why not go ahead and install SSMS, since it's undoubtedly better than whatever I'm using on Linux? And if SSMS is on there, I might as well put VS on there as well, since the two work hand-in-hand...

    Basically, and to make a long story short, you'd just end up doing everything in the damned VM. So why bother with Linux in the first place? I call that goofy.

    @JesusChrist said:

    when was the last time you used Ubuntu? the usability has been the main focus of the last 2 years and it has come along leaps and bounds in terms of ease of use, IMHO i'd say it's on par with windows usability wise these days, especially with the new app store, pretty UI etc.

    Ok, first of all, if you think "pretty UI" has anything to do with "usable UI", you aren't qualified to judge the quality of a user interface. Sorry, but that's true. The most usable OS ever built was MacOS circa 9.2, and it was ugly as sin. "Pretty UI" can sell more copies of the OS, but it doesn't make the OS any more usable, and in many cases can make it significantly less usable. Mostly because bad developers think they can add "skinning" and their usability problems go away.

    Secondly, you don't know my history with Linux, so I'll review. It's basically a case of "fool me once, shame on you..." I've been told "Linux is great now, really, you should try it!" pretty much every year like clockwork since 2001, and I've dutifully tried it almost every time-- and Linux is always shit. Corel Linux, RedHat 6.something, Suse something, several Ubuntus... always, *always*, the Linux OS simply does not work. Corel didn't work with my network card. RedHat 6.whatever didn't work with my sound card, which was on their supported hardware list. I tried to use Ubuntu to make a MythTV box, but it didn't recognize my video capture card even though it was on their supported hardware list. I tried Ubuntu on an old iBook, but it wouldn't wake from sleep properly. I tried on my HP tablet, and it made a LOUD IRRITATING BEEP for no reason at almost random intervals. (Hey look, the bug's still open! Natch.) And the tablet didn't wake from sleep right, either.

    As a result, I don't try Linux anymore. It took me awhile, but I've learned a couple things:
    1) Linux users have a reality distortion field at least as powerful as Apple users do. I'm not going to call Linux users out-and-out liars... but... well I should, because they are.
    2) Linux distribution supported hardware lists are complete bunk.
    3) Linux OSes don't employ any kind of QA process, at all. Things are far more likely to simply not work in Linux, and they're far more likely to break for no reason during OS updates.
    4) Linux OSes don't employ any kind of acceptance or usability testing.
    5) Linux OSes don't care if they actually run. The laptop that waking from sleep didn't work on? An Apple iBook. Apple makes maybe 3 laptop models, and all of them use the same BIOS-- fixing that once piece of hardware would have given them an instant potential 8% marketshare. And yet it was busted. (And yes, the iBook was on the "supported hardware list.")

    So in short: no, I'm not going to try fucking Linux again. Not until I have good evidence that it actually works from someone who's not a fanboy. Telling me to try Linux "no really it's good now really you can trust me" is actually counter-productive at this point, since my main motivating factor in life is spite.

    Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.



  • It used to be XP, now I'm using Vista.  We get what the employer madates.  We mainly do "desktop" applications targeting "maintenance devices", i.e. hardened laptops (also some embedded).  The targets also used to be XP, but now rumor has it they are moving to Windows 7.  Yay.  Our applications do fun stuff like setting the machines IP address and mapping drives programatically, as well as other cooler things like communicating with a myriad of hardware devices.  The end users could be anywhere in the world at any given time.  Migration away from XP should be interesting.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    my main motivating factor in life is spite.
     

    Does it feel good to finally say these words out loud, Ben Croshaw?

    @blakeyrat said:

    Not until I have good evidence that it actually works from someone who's not a fanboy.

    I'll keep you posted, but all my experiences so far have been "meh".

     

     



  • @dhromed said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    my main motivating factor in life is spite.
     

    Does it feel good to finally say these words out loud, Ben Croshaw?

    Oh I've said it hundreds of times. Because it's hilarious. And kind of true... but the only difference is that I'm admitting to it, everybody does it. (I mean, be honest: the more your annoying boss tells you to do something, the longer you procrastinate on it, right?)

    And I hate Ben Croshaw. He's just a fucking pessimist, drowning in a sea of nostalgia.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    He's just a fucking pessimist, drowning in a sea of nostalgia.
     

    His recent top 5 said otherwise.



  • @frits said:

    It used to be XP, now I'm using Vista.  We get what the employer madates.  We mainly do "desktop" applications targeting "maintenance devices", i.e. hardened laptops (also some embedded).  The targets also used to be XP, but now rumor has it they are moving to Windows 7.  Yay.  Our applications do fun stuff like setting the machines IP address and mapping drives programatically, as well as other cooler things like communicating with a myriad of hardware devices.  The end users could be anywhere in the world at any given time.  Migration away from XP should be interesting.

     

     

    IMO, Microsoft does a good job of not breaking things for programmers between consecutive versions of Windows.  



  • @dhromed said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    He's just a fucking pessimist, drowning in a sea of nostalgia.
     

    His recent top 5 said otherwise.

    Well fair enough. I stopped listening to his reviews years ago, when he was a fucking pessimist, drowning in a sea of nostalgia. Maybe he's changed since then.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    his reviews
     

    I am past my initial LOL phase when I first viewed him, and now he's just a comfortable part of the week.

     

    Like a good marriage, I think.



  • @Salami said:

    @frits said:

    It used to be XP, now I'm using Vista.  We get what the employer madates.  We mainly do "desktop" applications targeting "maintenance devices", i.e. hardened laptops (also some embedded).  The targets also used to be XP, but now rumor has it they are moving to Windows 7.  Yay.  Our applications do fun stuff like setting the machine's IP address and mapping drives programatically, as well as other cooler things like communicating with a myriad of hardware devices.  The end users could be anywhere in the world at any given time.  Migration away from XP should be interesting.

     

     

    IMO, Microsoft does a good job of not breaking things for programmers between consecutive versions of Windows.  

    OK great.  Thanks for the reassurance.

     



  • @dhromed said:

    An .iso is basically equivalent to a .zip with 0% compression, isn't it?

    No.

    @dhromed said:

    Put the contents on the stick and yer done, right?

    And how is the puter gonna know this stuff is bootable, precognition?



  • @Spectre said:

    @dhromed said:
    Put the contents on the stick and yer done, right?

    And how is the puter gonna know this stuff is bootable, precognition?

    Man I'm an old school Mac user. It reads the filesystem (the driver is in ROM of course) and looks for a System Folder.



  •  @blakeyrat said:

    Ok, first of all, if you think "pretty UI" has anything to do with "usable UI", you aren't qualified to judge the quality of a user interface.

    untrue i actually have several qualifications proving that i do.  also assuming i am incompetent and unable to judge UI quality is pretty arrogant please don't let this thread evolve in the a personal argument.

    Beside the passion you are arguing with is quite funny, you seem offended that someone isn't using the same setup as you or something.

    @blakeyrat said:

    Linux users have a reality distortion field at least as powerful as Apple users do. I'm not going to call Linux users out-and-out liars... but... well I should, because they are.

    sometimes true

    @blakeyrat said:

    Linux distribution supported hardware lists are complete bunk.

    sometimes true

     @blakeyrat said:

    Linux OSes don't employ any kind of QA process, at all. Things are far more likely to simply not work in Linux, and they're far more likely to break for no reason during OS updates.

    completley false, Ubuntu at least is a product produced by a private company and goes through all the testing and QA you would expect

     @blakeyrat said:

    Linux OSes don't employ any kind of acceptance or usability testing.

    completely false, see point above

     @blakeyrat said:

    Linux OSes don't care if they actually run. The
    laptop that waking from sleep didn't work on? An Apple iBook. Apple
    makes maybe 3 laptop models, and all of them use the same BIOS-- fixing
    that once piece of hardware would have given them an instant potential
    8% marketshare. And yet it was busted.

    maybe, not believing it just because you say though

    Also in terms of you calling me a fanboy, as stated earlier i use a bunch of different OS including OSX and Windows(among others) and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.  methinks you sir are in fact the fanboy.

     @blakeyrat said:

    Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.

    that's ok, just stop posting in the thread now.



  • @JesusChrist said:

    untrue i actually have several qualifications proving that i do.  also assuming i am incompetent and unable to judge UI quality is pretty arrogant please don't let this thread evolve in the a personal argument.

    Ok, that's fair enough. I stand by my opinion, though... while a "pretty" UI might increase sales, or your likelihood of being featured in Wired, or even user satisfaction, it simply can not increase usability. And from my practical experience, most software that expends significant effort being "pretty" (take, for example, Quicktime Player) has awful usability.

    @JesusChrist said:

    completley false, Ubuntu at least is a product produced by a private company and goes through all the testing and QA you would expect

    Then why are there longstanding bugs where GNOME ignores the system beep sound and uses the PC speaker instead? Then why was that "extremely loud beep" bug, a bug that's scaring away potential users in droves and utterly embarrassing new users, open for 2 years? (And, in fact, is still open?) "Hey guys, check out my slick new Ubuntu install!" "[120 dB square wave bleep]". Then how do you explain that it was a regression from the last version, yet still unfixed several versions later? The evidence here isn't backing you up.

    Look, I don't deny that Ubuntu is the product of a private company. But it certainly (and demonstrably) doesn't go through all the testing and QA as Windows and OS X.

    @JesusChrist said:

    Also in terms of you calling me a fanboy, as stated earlier i use a bunch of different OS including OSX and Windows(among others) and they all have their strengths and weaknesses.  methinks you sir are in fact the fanboy.

    Look, I never said you were lying, or even that you're wrong... hell for all I know, Ubuntu is a golden utopia of perfect software right now. I've wasted enough of my time. The Linux community had their chance to convert me, and they blew it... and blew it... and blew it... and now it's blown. This is not your fault, of course. But I'm still not going to try it again.



  • @blakeyrat said:

    Then why are there longstanding bugs where GNOME ignores the system beep sound and uses the PC speaker instead? Then why was that "extremely loud beep" bug, a bug that's scaring away potential users in droves and utterly embarrassing new users, open for 2 years? (And, in fact, is still open?) "Hey guys, check out my slick new Ubuntu install!" "[120 dB square wave bleep]". Then how do you explain that it was a regression from the last version, yet still unfixed several versions later? The evidence here isn't backing you up.
     

    never heard of this one but all OS's have long standing bugs, hell there are a ton of bugs in XP that made it to Vista and then are probably still in 7(although i haven't checked), for example the known bug with samba shares when you have the windows live sign in assistant(or whatever it's called) in win7, my bosses imac screen won't wake after suspend about 30% of the time etc, it's just a fact of life.  Sorry you've had hardware issues, can't say as i've ever experienced those problems much, i think the most trouble i had with that kind of thing was unsigned drivers on Vista back in the day.

     @blakeyrat said:

    I've wasted enough of my time. The Linux community had their chance to convert me, and they blew it... and blew it... and blew it... and now it's blown. This is not your fault, of course. But I'm still not going to try it again.

    that's sad but i know what you mean, although i use OSX when i need to i feel the same way about the mac community too, obviously not with the passion you feel, I just don't care that much, but i get what you are saying.

     @blakeyrat said:

    @JesusChrist said:
    untrue i actually have
    several qualifications proving that i do.  also assuming i am
    incompetent and unable to judge UI quality is pretty arrogant please
    don't let this thread evolve in the a personal argument.

    Ok, that's fair enough. I stand by my opinion, though... while a
    "pretty" UI might increase sales, or your likelihood of being featured
    in Wired, or even user satisfaction, it simply can not increase
    usability. And from my practical experience, most software that expends
    significant effort being "pretty" (take, for example, Quicktime Player)
    has awful usability.

    I think you're reading way too much into the word "pretty", what i meant by that was a UI that is easy to use but also doesn't make you want to poke your eyes out, they actually hired designers to do the L&F unlike a lot of distros that leave that sort of thing up to programmers and inevitably end up looking like shit.



  • @JesusChrist said:

    never heard of this one but all OS's have long standing bugs,

    Yes, but not long standing bugs that product 120 dB bleeps. And regressions generally don't occur at all in any professionally-developed product, yet there they were in Ubuntu.

    @JesusChrist said:

    for example the known bug with samba shares when you have the windows live sign in assistant(or whatever it's called) in win7

    Windows Live is a ball of shit. I used to make "ball of shit" exceptions for some of the Windows Live products, but with the 2011 version they're all firmly balls of shit.

    @JesusChrist said:

    obviously not with the passion you feel, I just don't care that much, but i get what you are saying.

    That's the problem! To get good software we need people passionate about good software! If people just lay back and tolerate the bugs, all we get is more bugs.



  • @JesusChrist said:

    @blakeyrat said:

    [120 dB square wave bleep]
     

    never heard of this one

    Seriously? Even I know this one. Together with the sleep mode that's screwed and lack of support for [insert favorite hardware here], it's on everybody's top N list of annoyances. Well, and of course lack of support for [insert favorite software].

    Here's the official bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/331589

    @Bug description said:

    This sound is what I imagine I would hear if I were to stick my tongue into a 240V socket, except that might hurt less.



  • @b-redeker said:

    Seriously? Even I know this one. Together with the sleep mode that's screwed and lack of support for [insert favorite hardware here], it's on everybody's top N list of annoyances. Well, and of course lack of support for [insert favorite software].

    Here's the official bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/331589

    That link looks somehow familiar...





  • @b-redeker said:

    Seriously? Even I know this one.
     

    How could you not, with blakeyrants being at least as loud as the beep?



  • TL;DNR the entire thread.  Was it interesting?

    I have two work machines, since I work for a consulting company that has me onsite at hunter2.  I work on the client laptop 8 hours a day and maybe fire up the consulting company laptop a few times a week.

    Consulting company laptop: Win7

    Client laptop: XP

    I hear the client is going to 7 sometime within the next millenium, but they still haven't fully upgraded from Office 2000, so getting a new OS rolled out may be a bit hasty.  Office 2010 is available but you're not required to upgrade.



  • I find Zero Punctuation to be hilarious.  On several occasions, I have to pause the video so I can stop laughing.

    It's weird to see games he railed on end up in his top 5.  It's like there's a fine line between his vitriol for a game he likes and his vitriol for a game he hates.



  • @dhromed said:

    I believe the latest version looks like shit. As in, the actual color.

    I'm a little worried about you. About your feces, I mean.



  • @b-redeker said:

    I'm a little worried about you. About your feces, I mean.
     

    I remember it browner, but anyway.

     

    Still looks like shit.



  • Windows 7 Professional. I'm a .NET/Silverlight developer and Mono/Moonlight are total junk, and I have to agree with most of what Blakeyrat said about Linux. Every time I try it something important doesn't work (such as a network card or video card) or I can't get the software I need to actually work. Despite my day job I've never been able to figure out how to actually download the <insert package/application here> source code, compile it within Linux, and have it installed and working, which seems to be the standard distribution model for Linux-compatible software. I just want to download an .msi or .exe, install it, and have it work. Usually I end up following some horrible online compile & install guide written by a Linux fanboi who can't understand that not everybody is familiar with every line of code in the kernel's source. Somehow those always instruct me to use a ton of command-line stuff that either don't work or somehow doesn't exist in the distro I'm using, or the syntax has changed since the guide was written and nobody thought to update the man pages, or the command somehow hopelessly smokes your system and you have to reformat and reinstall, only to find out that somehow the video driver you used before no longer works because the planetary alignments have changed since last install. Linux fanbois may sit in their mothers' basements while looking at command-line porn and point fingers and laugh at me while foaming at the mouth and screaming how evil Microsoft is because they actually expect people to pay for a product, but in the end Windows is stable, everyone knows how to use it, and it just works. Linux may be the greatest thing ever and I'd never catch on because it either doesn't work or doesn't do what I need it to do.

    /rant.



  •  Everything at work (ginormous enterprisey WTF company) is 100% Windows XP.  If management follows their previously announced upgrade schedule, this will be the year we all get new computers, which I'm assuming will mean Windows 7, although I'm not so sure about that since they buy all the computers and then re-image everything anyway.. I wouldn't be surpised if they figured out some way to stay with XP.

    On a personal leverl,  I've tried just about everything but Windows is the only thing that actually works.

    OS/2 - Saw a computer in a store running OS/2 and thought it looked pretty cool.  Bought a copy.  A few weeks and a few hundred hours on Usenet later, I still couldn't get it to install.  Threw it in the garbage.  Years later read that they had a major bug in the installer. (well DUH!)

    BeOS - Installed easily.  Looks nice.  Now what?   No software to run.  No support for most of my hardware.

     Linux - What Blakey said.

    All the various incarnations of Mac OS - Looks very interesting but I'm not buying a whole computer just so I can try it out.

    Vista - Ran Vista x64 for 18 months.  Not nearly as bad as people have been led to believe.  Got a bad rap due to things that really weren't Microsoft's fault.

    Windows 7 - Very nice.  Been running it for just over a year.  Could become the next XP (in terms of longevity).

     

     



  • @El_Heffe said:

    Vista - Ran Vista x64 for 18 months.  Not nearly as bad as people have been led to believe.  Got a bad rap due to things that really weren't Microsoft's fault.

    Windows 7 - Very nice.  Been running it for just over a year.  Could become the next XP (in terms of longevity).

    I've been running Vista x64 on my home laptop since I bought it in Summer 2009.  I'm very happy with it and agree 100% with what you said.  In fact, I've had the free Windows 7 upgrade for a year and haven't even bothered trying to install it.



  • XP at work, we need to mantain compatibility with some 20 years old legacy app, (it seems this is the year we are letting it go, but I could be cheated again), we are a big organization.

    At home I use a mix of stuff depending on the box or requirements for side projects (CentOS, Debian, etc)

    I haven't actually installed 7 or Vista on any of my boxes, I used it for some trivial stuff that I needed but I look forward to working with it, glitter aside it seems they fixed a lot of broken stuff.  I agree that most of Vista bad rep is just hype.

    On the Linux being shitty.... hmmm it is Linux, you need a different level of expectation, it doesn't bother me much (neither does Windows) but then again sometimes I miss DOS so perhaps I'm broken.



  • @serguey123 said:

    On the Linux being shitty.... hmmm it is Linux, you need a different level of expectation
     

    Linux.  You just need lower expectations®

     



  • @El_Heffe said:

    @serguey123 said:

    On the Linux being shitty.... hmmm it is Linux, you need a different level of expectation
     

    Linux.  You just need lower expectations®

    For some values of lower ;)



  • I am a VB6 (yes, I know, it's what our company uses!) and .NET developer. So my option is basically picked out for me.

    Up until two months ago, I had a 7 year old machine running Windows 2003.

    Now I run Windows 7.



  • @frits said:

    I've been running Vista x64 on my home laptop since I bought it in Summer 2009.  I'm very happy with it and agree 100% with what you said.  In fact, I've had the free Windows 7 upgrade for a year and haven't even bothered trying to install it.

    I've had the same experience. Running Vista x64 for about 14 months at home. Never had a problem with it.



  • I use Windows 7 for my work desktop but connect mostly to Windows Servers with either 2003, 2008, or 2008 R2 as their OS.  I used to use Linux and am prepping to switch back after a three year hiatus.  Started with Red Hat, switched to Gentoo, later to Ubunto, and finally SUSE.  Going back to Gentoo but am having trouble with it for the first time having hosed my bootloader in some way I'm failing to grasp.



  • At home I use an Apple Mac Airbook. At work, I use windows. I find that I have no control on my windows computer. I don't do any programming at home. All my web-apps are hosted on some linux based machine. So I have to dabble in shell scripts for that. So far my comfort level is good with mac and windows, but the lack of control is hurting me. The linux machine I don't do anythign much with it, other than deploy code. That too is not my job. My job is to write code and give it to the code configuration manager. He will take care of packaging stuff.



  •  Well, right now I still use Win XP SP3.


Log in to reply
 

Looks like your connection to What the Daily WTF? was lost, please wait while we try to reconnect.