If the election were held today...



  • So, taking in to account the latest batch of polls (and assuming polls are accurate), if the election were held today, McCain would win.  Obviously this is of modest importance since the election is not being held today.  But it got me wondering.  Who here follows politcs?  Also, does anyone here care a lot about the issues and still not follow politics?  Another question: Who wishes that the election frenzy was longer or shorter?



  •  BTW, this is were I get my polls.



  •  Not discounting RCP, but I've also seen electoral maps that showed Obama with a sizeable advantage (likely to have probably shrank by now I guess). 

     I follow politics pretty closely and all it really does is reaffirm my belief that the United States puts a premium price tag on stupidity. This will be the third straight election cycle in which a fairly intelligent person was put up against a slack-jawed idiot (or someone who aspires to be like one), and as much as I want Obama to win, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we as a nation once again are stuck with the mentally unfit.

     Overally it's just very depressing how vicious the attacks are coming from one side (read: Republican) and knowing that before long, the Obama camp is going to end up abandoning the high road and join them in the mud. The whole thing about questioning Obama's patriotism is getting old but they will keep harping on it as long as they can because they know that at least 50% of this country are jingoistic America uber alles types. 

    The one thing that I did find the most ridiculous, however, was McCain's claim that Obama is doing what he is doing because he has the ambition to be President. Keith Olbermann's show on MSNBC Monday night did a good job of making that backfire by taking the excerpt right out of McCain's own book:

    "I didn't decide to run for president to start a national crusade for
    the political reforms I believed in or to run a campaign as if it were
    some grand act of patriotism. In truth, I wanted to be
    president because it had become my ambition to be president. . . . In
    truth, I'd had the ambition for a long time.
    "
      - John McCain, Worth Fighting For (2002)

    The fact that the two are in a statistical dead heat in national polling just blows my mind.



  • I follow politics pretty closely, although much moreso since 2000. (Anyone w/ a passing interest in law and the 2000 election should read the book "Supreme Injustice" - a good review of how amazingly unprecedented and, while not outright illegal, certainly disingenuous, the SCOTUS decision handing the election to Bush was.)

    The media overload on this election, meanwhile, was enough to basically batter me into submission a few months ago and I've resisted following it terribly closely since. Hard to blame any of the networks for wanting to cover it since, basically, '06, but the 24-hour networks' saturation of it is seriously irritating.

    I'll probably pick it up again during the conventions (so, what, a week from now?), truth be told.



  • I pick up bits and pieces of political news.  I hate politics and the way it is practiced.  I'm very interested in government, liberty and market economics but I don't think those come into play all that often in our political system.  All politicians are scumbags and the Republicans and Democrats just spend a lot of time and money yelling at each other and arguing over the best way to fuck me over.  I don't like Obama and I don't like McCain, but that's not unusual for me.  I will vote a third party candidate.  I'm not sure which candidate I dislike less, so I don't know if I should be pulling for McCain or Obama.  I'm hoping in the following months one of them does something that really pisses me off, just so I can have something to look forward to.

     

    In case you couldn't tell, I'm a small-R republican / small-L libertarian.  I'm pro-military, pro-gun, pro-choice, pro-drug, for gay marriage (fuck this "civil union" bullshit) and against pretty much any government interferance in the economy.  I believe the point of government should be to lock up criminals, build roads/public transit systems and blow up foreigners.  And that is all.



  •  I follow the election a bit and I find it amazing the McCain is as far up in the polls as he is.  The man knows shit.  Worse is he has the jock mentality.  If he gets hurt, he will hurt someone else independent of it being the right person.  He wants to invade the whole mideast.  After 9/11 he said he wanted to invade Iraq, Iran and Syria.  We are already going broke just with Iraq.



  • @TheTXI said:

     Not discounting RCP, but I've also seen electoral maps that showed Obama with a sizeable advantage (likely to have probably shrank by now I guess). 

     

    Just FYI, the RCP electoral map has, until today,show Obama with either a substatial lead or a minor lead.  Also note that this is only their "no toss-up" electoral map.  The reason I bring up the point is because so many people were predicting an Obama landslide, it's amazing that they could be running neck-and-neck much less McCain having a slight electoral advantage.

    Also just so I answer my own questions.  I love politics and follow it pretty much every day.  I'm registered Republican and pretty much vote party lines.  I'm actually a libertarian, but I think the Republicans are right on the important issues.  Also, I hate lots of Republicans because lots of them don't legislate like conservatives.  



  • @tster said:

    so many people were predicting an Obama landslide
    Don't be ridiculous.  Didn't you see the article about how the results of the election had been leaked early?

    So what if the article was in the Onion.



  • @tster said:



    Also, does anyone here care a lot about the issues and still not follow politics?

     



    Did it ever occur to you that there are many who don't believe there is a working political process?

    Take this quote from John Berger:

    "The pursuit of individual happiness has been acknowledged as a universal right. Yet the existing social conditions make the individual feel powerless. He lives in a contradiction between what he is and what he would like to be. Either he then becomes fully conscious of the contradiction and its causes, and so joins the political struggle for a full democracy; or else he lives, continually subject to an envy, which, compounded with his sense of powerlessness, dissolves into recurrent day-dreams."


    So the question actually becomes, do you let a political party define your values (and thus feel empowered), as opposed to ones derived from your own study and reasoning (because of the 2 parties, I'm sure one happens to align perfectly with me!) or do you actually wire a couple of brain cells to realize the latter, only to understand the powerlessness (yet in the times we live in, which are quite good, relatively compared to history, one may realise no need to partake in policital process).


    On the other hand, if your values are not defined by a party and your circle jerk friends, and you "do care a lot about the issues and still not follow politics", there is not much a person can do.


    Oh, but If I do vote it will most likely be for Obama because he is taller and more hansome! Or maybe McCain because he won't make baby jesus cry... decisions decisions, gonna be a hard one this year.



  • @Vechni said:

    Or maybe McCain because he won't make baby jesus cry...

    I dunno, man, McCain is pretty fucking ugly.  If looking at him makes me want to cry, I don't think BJ stands a chance. 



  • @tster said:

    Who here follows politcs? 

    I do, but I feel revolted by it most of the time. Assuming we're talking about American politics, I find it unbearable what most americans respond to - Nationalistic drumbeating, over-simplified answers, macho chestbeating. The most unpleasant aspect is how a candidate can somehow be "too intelligent" (often a criticism of Obama), as if that would be a hinderance to a successful presidency. The whole Bush "straightshooter, tell it like it is, man of the people" was one of the great BS fests of all time. In NYC where I live bush was extremely unpopular in both elections - we can spot a chicken-fried bullshitter like that right away, but in other places it makes people wet their levis.



  • @chebrock said:

    I do, but I feel revolted by it most of the time. Assuming we're talking about American politics, I find it unbearable what most americans respond to - Nationalistic drumbeating, over-simplified answers, macho chestbeating.
    This is not unique to American politics, just more visible.



  • @chebrock said:

    Assuming we're talking about American politics, I find it unbearable what most americans respond to - Nationalistic drumbeating, over-simplified answers, macho chestbeating.

    Ecoweenie scare tactics, race-baiting (committed by all races), massive spending projects that are both infeasible and unaffordable, anti-wealth class struggle bullshit, etc...  Politics has always been about manipulating fear to gain power, no matter what part of the world you live in.

     

    @chebrock said:

    The most unpleasant aspect is how a candidate can somehow be "too intelligent" (often a criticism of Obama), as if that would be a hinderance to a successful presidency.

    Some of the worst tyrants throughout history were quite intelligent.  I would much, much rather have a stupid, benign president than an intelligent, evil one.  Very little about good governance requires more than an average intelligence, anyway.  Voting for someone based on intelligence is like buying a car based completely on the stereo system.



  • @bstorer said:

    @chebrock said:
    I do, but I feel revolted by it most of the time. Assuming we're talking about American politics, I find it unbearable what most americans respond to - Nationalistic drumbeating, over-simplified answers, macho chestbeating.
    This is not unique to American politics, just more visible.

    Exactly. Here in Austria, an awful lot of the voters (up to 20-30%) can be baited with xenophobia, obviously unrealistic simple "solutions" to complex problems and envy.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    So what if the article was in the Onion.
    in case anybody wanted to watch it.  The second half is worthless, though.



  • @ammoQ said:

    ...obviously unrealistic simple "final solutions" to complex problems...

    FTFY 

     



  • @Vechni said:

    @tster said:



    Also, does anyone here care a lot about the issues and still not follow politics?

     



    Did it ever occur to you that there are many who don't believe there is a working political process?

     

    Obviously it occured to me.  That's why I asked the question.



  • @chebrock said:

     a candidate can somehow be "too intelligent" (often a criticism of Obama)

     

    If he wants to extinguish this problem he should just show a video of him trying to answer a question without a teleprompter in front of him.  



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    Politics has always been about manipulating fear to gain power, no matter what part of the world you live in.
     

    No argument there.

    @morbiuswilters said:

    I would much, much rather have a stupid, benign president than an intelligent, evil one
     

    No argument there either, however I do find the idea that someone is too smart to be president really frustrating, especially in the context of GWB's fake good old boy politics. 



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    I would much, much rather have a stupid, benign president than an intelligent, evil one
     

     

    Then the US really lucked out for the past eight years - we had a stupid, evil president.  And if McCain wins, we'll have another four years of the same. 



  • @AMerrickanGirl said:

    Then the US really lucked out for the past eight years - we had a stupid, evil president.

    [citation needed]

     

    @AMerrickanGirl said:

    And if McCain wins, we'll have another four years of the same.

    [citation needed]



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @AMerrickanGirl said:

    Then the US really lucked out for the past eight years - we had a stupid, evil president.

    [citation needed]

    [1]
    @morbiuswilters said:

    @AMerrickanGirl said:

    And if McCain wins, we'll have another four years of the same.

    [citation needed]

    [2]



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    @AMerrickanGirl said:

    Then the US really lucked out for the past eight years - we had a stupid, evil president.

    [citation needed]

     

    @AMerrickanGirl said:

    And if McCain wins, we'll have another four years of the same.

    [citation needed]

     

     

    Citation needed?  For stating an opinion?  Give me a break.



  • @AMerrickanGirl said:

    Citation needed?  For stating an opinion?  Give me a break.

    Well, obviously you don't have to provide any support for your ramblings if you don't want to.  That's the beautiful thing about this country: you can say any damn thing you want and people are free to judge your opinion based on reason and the facts you provide (or choose not to provide). 



  • @AMerrickanGirl said:

    Citation needed?  For stating an opinion?  Give me a break.

    PROTIP: Use words like "I think" or "It seems to me that" when stating an opinion, so as to avoid sounding like you think you're stating fact because that makes you sound incredibly ignorant.



  • @bstorer said:

    PROTIP: Use words like "I think" or "It seems to me that" when stating an opinion, so as to avoid sounding like you think you're stating fact because that makes you sound incredibly ignorant.

    PROTIP: It's only your opinion that works like "I think" or "It seems to me that" are always used when stating an opinion, to avoid sounding like one is stating fact.  You don't have to provide a citation for it, but that's only my opinion.



  • @morbiuswilters said:

    PROTIP: It's only your opinion that works like "I think" or "It seems to me that" are always used when stating an opinion, to avoid sounding like one is stating fact.  You don't have to provide a citation for it, but that's only my opinion.

    I think in my opinion that it seems to me that I agree with your opinions, which I believe makes them fact if you ask me.



  • @AMerrickanGirl said:

    Citation needed?  For stating an opinion?  Give me a break.

    AMeriickanGirl is a dumb bitch who should shut the fuck up.  She's anti-American.  If we listen to her our country will go down the shithole.



  • @tster said:

    @AMerrickanGirl said:

    Citation needed?  For stating an opinion?  Give me a break.

    AMeriickanGirl is a dumb bitch who should shut the fuck up.  She's anti-American.  If we listen to her our country will go down the shithole.

    [3]



  • @bstorer said:

    @tster said:

    @AMerrickanGirl said:

    Citation needed?  For stating an opinion?  Give me a break.

    AMeriickanGirl is a dumb bitch who should shut the fuck up.  She's anti-American.  If we listen to her our country will go down the shithole.

    [3]
     

    OMFG!   I actually snorted and then laughed extremely loudly for about 15 seconds when I read this.



  • @AMerrickanGirl said:

    we had a stupid, evil president.  And if McCain wins, we'll have another four years of the same. 
     

    But I'll bet both of them can spell American correctly.



  • @KenW said:

    But I'll bet both of them can spell American correctly.

    I think AMerrrikanGrrrrrl is just being ironic. 



  • @KenW said:

    @AMerrickanGirl said:

    we had a stupid, evil president.  And if McCain wins, we'll have another four years of the same. 
     

    But I'll bet both of them can spell American correctly.

     

     

    I grew up in Merrick, New York.  A Merrick An Girl.  Got it?



  • @AMerrickanGirl said:

    I grew up in Merrick, New York.  A Merrick An Girl.  Got it?
    Well, I have to admit.  That's pretty clever.


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