Stupid project manager remarks



  • At a department project meeting, the following conversation occurred between a project manager (who by self proclamation is an expert technologist/programmer because he once wrote several thousand lines of perl script) and one of the lead developers:

    Project Manager: We need to change the behavior of the logic that supports x from y to z
    Developer: Ok, we'll change the code: about a week to code and test
    PM: Why do you need to change the code?
    Dev: Because the business logic behavior is implemented in code
    PM: But why do you need to change anything?
    Dev: Because YOU want it to change: we don't use magic pixies to implement the business logic; we use CODE; 
           if the required logic changes, then the code that IMPLEMENTS that logic must change accordingly, and that takes time
    PM: Ok, we have a scheduled release two weeks from now, so we have until then to decide what the logic has to be
    Dev: No you don't: working backwards from the release, the QA team wants a week to design tests for the changed functionality, 
           schedule and perform testing, and to deal with possible code changes to any bugs they discover, and the dev team needs 
           about 5 days to do the work. That means if you want it in the release two weeks from now, you have until the end of this 
           meeting to finalize the changes you want
    PM: Why does it take so long?
    Dev: As I just explained ...
    


  • Be comprehensive, he doesn't know what he's doing :-)



  • Grr... Not only does this forum completely screw up formatting, but the last update also dropped the sideways scolling....



  • This is standard "Any task performed by people paid less than me is EASY, and if they claim that it's not easy, they are either lying or stupid" thinking. Latest statistics from the WHO suggest that at least 80% of people in a management position suffer from this disability.



  •  Wasn't this a Dilbert strip?



  • @Ya gotta laugh said:

    At a department project meeting, the following conversation occurred between a project manager (who by self proclamation is an expert technologist/programmer because he once wrote several thousand lines of perl script) and one of the lead developers:

    Project Manager: We need to change the behavior of the logic that supports x from y to z
    Developer: Ok, we'll change the code: about a week to code and test
    PM: Why do you need to change the code?
    Dev: Because the business logic behavior is implemented in code
    PM: But why do you need to change anything?
    Dev: Because YOU want it to change: we don't use magic pixies to implement the business logic; we use CODE; 
           if the required logic changes, then the code that IMPLEMENTS that logic must change accordingly, and that takes time
    PM: Ok, we have a scheduled release two weeks from now, so we have until then to decide what the logic has to be
    Dev: No you don't: working backwards from the release, the QA team wants a week to design tests for the changed functionality, 
           schedule and perform testing, and to deal with possible code changes to any bugs they discover, and the dev team needs 
           about 5 days to do the work. That means if you want it in the release two weeks from now, you have until the end of this 
           meeting to finalize the changes you want
    PM: Why does it take so long?
    Dev: As I just explained ...
    

     

     

    This reminds me of my old job and now this job where the IT guy thinks everything can be done in a day.  God I hate this crappy industry.  It's filled with script kiddies and people who think that since they setup a wireless network in their house that they are educated and capable of doing your job.  God bless America and colleges who give you the chance to gtfo of this crappy industry. 



  • While reading that post, I kept thinking, "standard operating procedure".. kinda sad that that's what I'm used to..



  • Sometimes they just don't get it.

    Last job, a project was running late because product management was 4 months late getting us our requirements. We were supposed to have 9 months to develop and test the stuff, but now we only had 5: 4 to develop and 1 to test.

    The VP of Engineering sat in on one of my team meetings where we were all pretty disgruntled. Actually said "well, there's a whole month allocated to testing, so it's OK if development runs a little late."

    That's the kind of thinking that got us into that mess to begin with.



  • @vt_mruhlin said:

    Sometimes they just don't get it.

    Last job, a project was running late because product management was 4 months late getting us our requirements. We were supposed to have 9 months to develop and test the stuff, but now we only had 5: 4 to develop and 1 to test.

    The VP of Engineering sat in on one of my team meetings where we were all pretty disgruntled. Actually said "well, there's a whole month allocated to testing, so it's OK if development runs a little late."

    That's the kind of thinking that got us into that mess to begin with.

     

     

    That's because IT manager are too stupid to realize that QA is important. It's a common attitude that QA time is a "nice-to-have" rather than a necessity.   



  • @Ya gotta laugh said:

    At a department project meeting, the following conversation occurred
    between a project manager (who by self proclamation is an expert
    technologist/programmer because he once wrote several thousand lines of
    perl script) and one of the lead developers:

    Project Manager: We need to change the behavior of the logic that supports x from y to z
    Developer: Ok, we'll change the code: about a week to code and test
    PM: Why do you need to change the code?
    Dev: Because the business logic behavior is implemented in code
    PM: But why do you need to change anything?
    Dev: Because YOU want it to change: we don't use magic pixies to implement the business logic; we use CODE; 
           if the required logic changes, then the code that IMPLEMENTS that logic must change accordingly, and that takes time
    PM: Ok, we have a scheduled release two weeks from now, so we have until then to decide what the logic has to be
    Dev: No you don't: working backwards from the release, the QA team wants a week to design tests for the changed functionality, 
           schedule and perform testing, and to deal with possible code changes to any bugs they discover, and the dev team needs 
           about 5 days to do the work. That means if you want it in the release two weeks from now, you have until the end of this 
           meeting to finalize the changes you want
    PM: Why does it take so long?
    Dev: As I just explained ...
    

     

    That's the point at which you know it's time to stop explaining and start stabbing. 



  • @DaveK said:

    @Ya gotta laugh said:

    OP

     

    That's the point at which you know it's time to stop explaining and start stabbing. 

     

    Whew, good thing you quoted the OP so we wouldn't have to scroll up!



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @DaveK said:

    @Ya gotta laugh said:

    OP

     

    That's the point at which you know it's time to stop explaining and start stabbing. 

     

    Whew, good thing you quoted the OP so we wouldn't have to scroll up!

     

     

    It's good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass posters?   



  • @Lysis said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @DaveK said:

    @Ya gotta laugh said:

    OP

     

    That's the point at which you know it's time to stop explaining and start stabbing. 

     

    Whew, good thing you quoted the OP so we wouldn't have to scroll up!

     

    It's good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass posters?   

     

    It certainly is NOT good forum etiquette to quote the OP.



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Lysis said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @DaveK said:

    @Ya gotta laugh said:

    OP

     

    That's the point at which you know it's time to stop explaining and start stabbing. 

     

    Whew, good thing you quoted the OP so we wouldn't have to scroll up!

     

    It's good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass posters?   

     

    It certainly is NOT good forum etiquette to quote the OP.

     

     

    LOL  This guy must be a troll and for that I salute him! 



  • @Lysis said:

    It's good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass posters?   

    I don't know what sort of forums you've been on, but most of the forums I've been on they also do something called 'trimming' in addition to quoting context.



  • @PJH said:

    @Lysis said:

    It's good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass posters?   

    I don't know what sort of forums you've been on, but most of the forums I've been on they also do something called 'trimming' in addition to quoting context.
     

     



  • Lysis, it's generally understood that everyone in the thread has read the OP. The thread has no reason to exist without the OP, so quoting the OP generally doesn't add anything to the thread. Moreover, quoting an entire post just for the sake of responding to the last portion of it isn't really helpful. Just quote the part you're responding to, or give an indication that you're responding to the OP in some way.



  • @PJH said:

    @Lysis said:

    It's good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass posters?   

    I don't know what sort of forums you've been on, but most of the forums I've been on they also do something called 'trimming' in addition to quoting context.
     

    Based on his reply, I think we have uncovered another teenager troll. This is what I suspected a while ago. Looking at his posting history eludes to this as well.

    Next, there will be new sidebar posts showing us beastiality and other mature subject matter.

    Maturity is in short supply these days.



  • @Lysis said:

    Exactly. You're playing with the grown-ups now.



  • @Lysis said:

    It's good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass posters?
     

    Half correct. The OP is a given; subsequent posts are not. In addition, it's generally appreciated to quote consciously: from the quote, trim & clip stuff you're not replying to, so that you prevent creating a huge thread with 75% repeated fluff. It is expected that the effort you put into the act of posting equals the effort you put in writing the content of your post.

    A little attention goes a long way; posting LOLpics does not. That takes longer, but if you do not want to spend that time on crafting your communiqué, the receiving party probably does not want to hear what you have to say anyway.



  • @dhromed said:

    @Lysis said:

    It's good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass posters?
     

    Half correct. The OP is a given; subsequent posts are not. In addition, it's generally appreciated to quote consciously: from the quote, trim & clip stuff you're not replying to, so that you prevent creating a huge thread with 75% repeated fluff. It is expected that the effort you put into the act of posting equals the effort you put in writing the content of your post.

    A little attention goes a long way; posting LOLpics does not. That takes longer, but if you do not want to spend that time on crafting your communiqué, the receiving party probably does not want to hear what you have to say anyway.

     

     

    There's too much n00bness in this post for even a roflcat reply. 



  • @Lysis said:

    That's because IT manager are too stupid to realize that QA is important. It's a common attitude that QA time is a "nice-to-have" rather than a necessity.   

     

    Or the ones who know you need testing, but assume that no bugs will be found so then never allocate any time for development to fix those bugs, nor any additional time for those bug fixes to be tested.



  • @Vanders said:

    @Lysis said:

    That's because IT manager are too stupid to realize that QA is important. It's a common attitude that QA time is a "nice-to-have" rather than a necessity.   

     

    Or the ones who know you need testing, but assume that no bugs will be found so then never allocate any time for development to fix those bugs, nor any additional time for those bug fixes to be tested.

    Well, if no one is doing QA it follows that no bugs will be found.  Ergo, no time is needed to fix bugs.  That should save huge amounts of time and money. 



  • @Ya gotta laugh said:

    At a department project meeting, the following conversation occurred between a project manager (who by self proclamation is an expert technologist/programmer because he once wrote several thousand lines of perl script) and one of the lead developers:

    Project Manager: We need to change the behavior of the logic that supports x from y to z
    Developer: Ok, we'll change the code: about a week to code and test
    PM: Why do you need to change the code?
    Dev: Because the business logic behavior is implemented in code
    PM: But why do you need to change anything?
    Dev: Because YOU want it to change: we don't use magic pixies to implement the business logic; we use CODE; 
           if the required logic changes, then the code that IMPLEMENTS that logic must change accordingly, and that takes time
    PM: Ok, we have a scheduled release two weeks from now, so we have until then to decide what the logic has to be
    Dev: No you don't: working backwards from the release, the QA team wants a week to design tests for the changed functionality, 
           schedule and perform testing, and to deal with possible code changes to any bugs they discover, and the dev team needs 
           about 5 days to do the work. That means if you want it in the release two weeks from now, you have until the end of this 
           meeting to finalize the changes you want
    PM: Why does it take so long?
    Dev: As I just explained ...
    

     

     

    Quoted for annoyance factor. 



  •  SOP at our place where go live dates seem to be set by the marketing department these day, long before they've even decided what the requirements are ... !



  • @DaveK said:

    That's the point at which you know it's time to stop explaining and start stabbing. 

     

    Laugh, all were you are from the Main rule is DYNAMITE.  Losing me. 



  • @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @Lysis said:

    @MasterPlanSoftware said:

    @DaveK said:

    @Ya gotta laugh said:

    OP

     

    That's the point at which you know it's time to stop explaining and start stabbing. 

     

    Whew, good thing you quoted the OP so we wouldn't have to scroll up!

     

    It's
    good forum etiquette to quote the person to whom you are
    replying.  Don't you have a timecard to approve rather than harass
    posters?   

     

    It certainly is NOT good forum etiquette to quote the OP.

     

     

    What, you mean like this?

     

    @Ya gotta laugh said:

    At a department project meeting, the following conversation occurred between a project manager (who by self proclamation is an expert technologist/programmer because he once wrote several thousand lines of perl script) and one of the lead developers:

    Project Manager: We need to change the behavior of the logic that supports x from y to z
    Developer: Ok, we'll change the code: about a week to code and test
    PM: Why do you need to change the code?
    Dev: Because the business logic behavior is implemented in code
    PM: But why do you need to change anything?
    Dev: Because YOU want it to change: we don't use magic pixies to implement the business logic; we use CODE;
    if the required logic changes, then the code that IMPLEMENTS that logic must change accordingly, and that takes time
    PM: Ok, we have a scheduled release two weeks from now, so we have until then to decide what the logic has to be
    Dev: No you don't: working backwards from the release, the QA team wants a week to design tests for the changed functionality,
    schedule and perform testing, and to deal with possible code changes to any bugs they discover, and the dev team needs
    about 5 days to do the work. That means if you want it in the release two weeks from now, you have until the end of this
    meeting to finalize the changes you want
    PM: Why does it take so long?
    Dev: As I just explained ...

     

     



  • @Ya gotta laugh said:

    At a department project meeting, the following conversation occurred between a project manager (who by self proclamation is an expert technologist/programmer because he once wrote several thousand lines of perl script) and one of the lead developers:

    Project Manager: We need to change the behavior of the logic that supports x from y to z
    Developer: Ok, we'll change the code: about a week to code and test
    PM: Why do you need to change the code?
    Dev: Because the business logic behavior is implemented in code
    PM: But why do you need to change anything?
    Dev: Because YOU want it to change: we don't use magic pixies to implement the business logic; we use CODE; 
           if the required logic changes, then the code that IMPLEMENTS that logic must change accordingly, and that takes time
    PM: Ok, we have a scheduled release two weeks from now, so we have until then to decide what the logic has to be
    Dev: No you don't: working backwards from the release, the QA team wants a week to design tests for the changed functionality, 
           schedule and perform testing, and to deal with possible code changes to any bugs they discover, and the dev team needs 
           about 5 days to do the work. That means if you want it in the release two weeks from now, you have until the end of this 
           meeting to finalize the changes you want
    PM: Why does it take so long?
    Dev: As I just explained ...
    

    OMG LOL  @ ur PM!


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