Change = Complaints + Complaints + Complaints?



  • <FONT face=Calibri size=3>I was a bit surprised to see so many complaints about the TDWTF's new look. Just a bit. If I could program the site to dispense $100-bills, I'd expect a torrent of complaints about how the "click here for free money" button is placed too far to the right. And to the left. </FONT>

    <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p><FONT face=Calibri size=3> </FONT></o:p>

    <FONT face=Calibri size=3>A thread of irony I noticed in the comments came in the form of "you suck, you're just a programmer and not a designer, so don't try to make things look good," which was then followed-up by some design advice. Extra irony for the fact that I *did* have a very talented graphic designer do the new look under the specific guidelines, "don't make it look like CommunityServer anymore." </FONT>

    <o:p><FONT face=Calibri size=3> </FONT></o:p>

    <FONT face=Calibri size=3>I don't remember too many site redesigns, but looking back at the Slashdot redesign (more, minor tweaks to the layout), a whole lot of people still hated it, too (http://meta.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/05/30/1531251).</FONT>

    <o:p><FONT face=Calibri size=3> </FONT></o:p>

    <FONT face=Calibri size=3>So this leads me to wonder, has anyone on the Internet ever liked anything that changed, ever? In a world of constantly-changing technology, how can so many people be resistant to change? And seriously, people actually liked the pastel colors on the previous theme?</FONT>



  • Reacting negatively to change is just a human thing. Some of us just cope with it better than others. With respect to websites, I fall into the "I don't care" category. As long as the text and background are sufficiently contrasted and the site doesn't look like I'm playing a game at work, then I don't care how it looks. Other people might not be so tolerant.



  • Personally I find the images don't fit well into the rest of the layout, but honestly I wouldn't have complained if you didn't ask for complaints. Other than that I find no major usability differences which is what I really care about (mind you I really only visit two links, the main page and "topics not read" which I have bookmarked). I'd say give it a week. Also judging how people complained about the name of the site I'm not surprised allot of them are verbose about the new look.



  •  

    <font face="Calibri" size="3">Extra irony for the fact that I did
    have a very talented graphic designer do the new look under the
    specific guidelines, "don't make it look like CommunityServer anymore."</font>

    I am sad to report that your man didn't do a good job -- which isn't a reflection on any other work of hirs.

    But in addition to that: I don't really care, because the content is so good.

    As for the flood of comments: those who don't mind don't speak, and those who have problems shout the loudest, and this site has a lot of visitors. Pft. Whaevs.



  •  As somebody who is colour blind, I object on general principle to anything involving colour schemes.



  • The new website just looks very thrown together, and in total it doesn't really make a whole. Like the colour codes of the articles on the frontpage, they're only used there, except for the codeSOD red, which is used for the sidebar stuff, but the sidebar stuff has nothing to do with codeSOD.

    Also most stuff doesn't line correctly, which is also very important for having a consistently looking look. And talking about consistancy.

    the subpanel content uses squares for its list items, non-wtf jobs uses "»" and alignes them right. Then sponsored by doesn't use anything and the side bar uses squares again. That gives it a bit of a cluttered look.

     

    But next to that i would say that everything that changes always gets bad rep, even if its better. The power of being used to something is pretty strong i guess.

     



  • I did like the pastels of the previous incarnation.  however in this version the specific combination of the colors comes off as more invasive.  The cut off corner adds a disasocciative (sp?) feel to the page in my opinion.  Its not that I don't like change.  Its good to shake things up a bit.  However, I feel this version needs a bit of tweaking.

     

    ps: regarless of the design, menus on the left have always been a pet peave of mine.



  • I don't like how the little contributor ranking bars are now green, I liked them better blue.  :-)   Seriously, Alex, this is the kind of user input I get all the time too, so I can empathize.  At some point you just have to put your foot down and say the site will look damned well how YOU want it to look, since you're the moderator/owner. 



  • Can I get the icon in cornflower blue?

    In all seriousness, I like it.  It's more crisp, deserving of a technology-related site, as opposed to some kind of artsy-fartsy site. 

    What I don't like is the new Community Server forums (fora?).  I'm used to the old one.  One thing that's broken is the <this_post_number> in reply to <this_post_number>.  Also, the new quoting mechanism is 100% fucked, IMO.  Quoting (which is now necessary considering the the brokenness of the "in reply to" now takes twice as many clicks.  Also, the line between the post and the signature is fainter, causing confusion in my mind as to where the post stops and the signature starts.  I haven't found anything in the new forums that's better than the old system.  

    I know you (Alex) had nothing to do with the forums, as you just purchased a package and installed it, but it's still broken. 



  • @belgariontheking said:

    I haven't found anything in the new forums that's better than the old system.
     

    The new dynamic xmlhttp-based tag editor.



  • @belgariontheking said:

     Also, the new quoting mechanism is 100% fucked, IMO.  Quoting (which is now necessary considering the the brokenness of the "in reply to" now takes twice as many clicks.

     

    I partly agree with you about removing the quote button as an alternative to Reply. However, if you click reply, and then later decide to quote, you have to start over. So even though there's one more click, it's more fault tolerant.  Better would have been to leave the original quote, and add the capability to quote after clicking reply. 

    You're not wrong that it's twice as many clicks, but I'd say that it only takes one more click. :P



  • Half full, half empty. :) 



  • @dhromed said:

    Half full, half empty. :) 

    Or (c) the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.



  • Are you comparing Change to Complaints * 3, or are you checking if setting Change to Complaints * 3 is true?



  • @Alex Papadimoulis said:

    <FONT face=Calibri size=3>If I could program the site to dispense $100-bills, I'd expect a torrent of complaints about how the "click here for free money" button is placed too far to the right. And to the left. </FONT>

    Dispensing free money is clearly a function of left-ness.  ;)  Though it's probably the money you've already contributed...

    Sorry, obscure attempt at political humor, obligatory </tongueInCheek> is assumed present.

    My initial thought on the redesign was that it was to bright - "Lego" colors - but overall it looks fine.



  • Well, simply put, the site design is not very good. It wasn/t good before, either, though. Still, if you actually employed a graphician for the current style, then it is a double failure. The angled captions look like poor 1990's Techno wannabie a la WipeOut: the yellowish pea-green colour is nausiating; community server is still TRWTF (why, in the name of all crying puppies worldwide do you persist with the abortion of a community system?!), and my spelling plugin doesn't work under it, so I can not be held accountable for any spelling mistakes. 

     Still, the letters can be read, and since sometimes the articles are vaguely entertaining. the site "works". I only wish the forum was still worth anything.



  • I'm pretty sure that as long as something changes, there will be complaints. For example, I'm a "fan" of floppy drives, game ports and the name "Worse Than Failure", and am strongly opposed to retire of either, despite having no real reasons for it (well, aside from having a [url=http://www.quickshot.com/game_controllers/command.html]game port joystick[/url]). I guess I'm just a conservative clod.

    That said, I actually like both the old and the new designs. Except that I want the navbar to be to the right. And the fonts are too small. And CommunityServer is still the real WTF. Well, you get the idea 8=].



  • I've made what could possibly be considered to be complaints, but I really intend it more as constructive criticism.  I like the site and want to see it grow.  I fee llike, as a long-time user, I'm in a position to help make the site better by giving feedback.  So you might hear me say things like "I think the colors clash a little", but you won't hear me say "this is lame! how dare you change the color scheme!"  That kind of comment doesn't help, but I feel that mine does.

    @belgariontheking said:

    Also, the new quoting mechanism is 100% fucked, IMO.  Quoting (which is now necessary considering the the brokenness of the "in reply to" now takes twice as many clicks.  Also, the line between the post and the signature is fainter, causing confusion in my mind as to where the post stops and the signature starts.

    I do like the ability to select a section of text and quote it.  Easier than doing it myself, and an extra click makes up for that otherwise lost time.  Though it shouldn't exactly be difficult to add a "quote it all" button to make [b]belgariontheking[/b] happy.

    As for the "in reply to", I nevevr really liked the feature.  Like I remember which post was numbe 182310.  I'm going to have to scroll up.  I consider it generally appropriate to quote the particular guy you're responding to, if you are in fact responding to somebody.



  • @belgariontheking said:

    Also, the line between the post and the signature is fainter, causing confusion in my mind as to where the post stops and the signature starts.

    apparently this is only an issue with my other computer.  I'll fiddle with my monitor settings. 



  • @vt_mruhlin said:

    Though it shouldn't exactly be difficult to add a "quote it all" button to make belgariontheking happy.
     

    Not selecting anything and clicking the quote button will emulate this functionality.

     



  • I will say that the one new feature that rocks harder than the hardest rock you can think of is how you don't have to go to the bottom and hit "Mark All Read" anymore...



  • Sheesh... isn't it obvious that there are some people who will complain about anything?  And for anything, there are some people who won't like it?  

    Would you prefer your audience was so small and homogenous that everyone liked exactly what you did?



  • @vt_mruhlin said:

    As for the "in reply to", I nevevr really liked the feature.  Like I remember which post was numbe 182310.
     

    The system should really link the quotee's name to their post. One other forum (hand-crafted) I frequent does this. If the quoted post is on the same page it Javascript-smooth-scrolls to the post, otherwise it jumps to it using the #r1234 form. 



  • @Zemm said:

    @vt_mruhlin said:

    As for the "in reply to", I nevevr really liked the feature.  Like I remember which post was numbe 182310.
     

    The system should really link the quotee's name to their post. One other forum (hand-crafted) I frequent does this. If the quoted post is on the same page it Javascript-smooth-scrolls to the post, otherwise it jumps to it using the #r1234 form. 


    Whirlpool.net.au, by any chance? :)



  • Also, for the record, I like the navbar on the left.  Seems more natural to me, no matter how many people say it's a design flaw. 



  • @PJH said:

    @vt_mruhlin said:

    Though it shouldn't exactly be difficult to add a "quote it all" button to make belgariontheking happy.
     

    Not selecting anything and clicking the quote button will emulate this functionality.

     

    Well, I believe his issue is that he has to click "reply" on the original message, then "quote" when he gets to the message editing screen.  That's a whole extra click.  He wants a "Quote" button back on the original message so he can do that with only one click.  Sounds kinda selfish if you ask me. 



  • @vt_mruhlin said:

    Well, I believe his issue is that he has to click "reply" on the original message, then "quote" when he gets to the message editing screen.  That's a whole extra click.  He wants a "Quote" button back on the original message so he can do that with only one click.  Sounds kinda selfish if you ask me. 
     

    I'm glad someone besides me thought this; I mean, how TF lazy can you be if you're bitching about having to do one more MOUSE CLICK? Does it take that much effort to move your index finger that fraction of an inch that you feel the need to whine about it? Can you imagine the level of crying if it took an extra keystroke instead?

    For Pete's sake, belgariontheking, spend a little time at the gym if that minor movement of your finger makes you whine.



  • The only suggestion I have is to bring back the bold indication of recently modified. This is one feature I do miss, and maybe Alex is still bringing things over to the new CS, so I'm not trying to whine too much. Like on the forums, it was very helpful and time saving to be able to quickly see which ones were changed since I last visited. That way when I came in, I just read the bold ones most of the time.



  • Okay guys, I'm going to be a total troll and say that I actually like the new color scheme.   Also, I can't help but notice that Alex's comment about complaints has turned into yet another avenue of complaints.  Seriously, I think that counts as The Real WTF.



  • obviously the real WTF is that it took 28 posts for someone to say something (other than the forum software) is the real wtf.

    Will the real WTF please stand up? 



  • @Daniel15 said:

    Whirlpool.net.au, by any chance? :)
     

    Yep, but I had already linked to it from another post recently so I didn't want to whore it too much. :) 



  • FWIW - I am so completely unaware of design stuff (sorry to all you oh-so-hip design dudes out there), that I really hadn't noticed anything had changed until I read this thread.

     <sarcasm>Can anyone tell me why designers get paid almost half as much as programmers? What for exactly???</sarcasm>



  • @KenW said:

    For Pete's sake, belgariontheking, spend a little time at the gym if that minor movement of your finger makes you whine.
     

    You mean that place with all the scary people (read: people in general) and the machines that could kill me?  (FUCK SHIT did it again)[1]  <reference person="Lewis Black">The IHOP is my health club.</reference>

    When I made that complaint, I didn't realize the extra functionality of being able to partially and selectively quote.  That makes up for the doubling in number of clicks. 

    Without any added benefit, could you obviously say that it was a good thing?  It may not be that bad, and maybe bitching about it was a bit much, but I would never believe that doubling the amount of work it takes to do anything to be a good thing, except for security's sake.  ("Are you sure you want to quote this post? Yes or no" versus "Are you sure you want to nuke city: MILWAUKEE, WI?  Yes or no")


    [1] - hit backspace once and it deleted two characters.



  •  My only complaints have 0 to do with the layout. I happen to like it, BTW.

     What pisses me off? Having to click "show full article" and "show all comments" EVERY TIME I VISIT. Cookies, motherf***er! Do you use them?? ;)

      



  • You look at my web-site and see how the looks, and you should realize that my way is good. One of them (ChronoJournal) http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/chrono/zzo38 is a OK way to do it, put command menu at top, content underneath. The other good way to do it is:

    • Don't mix up the URLs too much because then a link will be wrong
    • Don't mix system colors and page colors
    • If you want to do code highlighting at all, CSS is a good way to do it
    • Try to make it work fine without a javascript even if it includes a javascript, the script is just for helping and isn't required
    • Use full-width pages, don't cut put all the content in a table in the middle with nothing on the sides
    • Don't use tables to lay out pages, you should use tables to lay out data instead
    • If you don't like the color of my web-site, then go into your setting menu and change the color setting
    • Don't too many images
    • etc



  • As long as the site is functional, I don't care about the layout. 



  • I don't understand the fuss.  As long as this site is not Microsoft Word compliant, I will not post to the forums. 



  • I actually don't mind the new look, after all, it is better then pastel colors.



  • I just wanted to make a suggestion. Its not much of a bother, but just thought someone might find it useful. On the main articles page, where it has the All Comments, Featured Comments,  could we have a "Last Comment (date time stamp)"  after this text, maybe even linked to the last comment (sort of how the forums work)



  • I thought I would reply, so that not only the people complaining are heard.

    I quite like how the site looks now.

    I am still happy with thedailywtf.com, personally, I didn't mind worse than failure, maybe I'm just too easy to please.

    MFD is fun! I like the comic replies. Don't get rid of either.

    People will always complain. People will resist change just because it's change, rest assured you can ignore these people for the most part. Once the changes have been around long enough, they will resist new changes.



  • The "Add Comment" on the article-only view should be removed, as it serves no other purpose than to encourage people to post to the discussion thread without reading it first.

    Of course, it goes without saying that "Featured Comments" is a malfeature that serves no good purpose.


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