Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike
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Okay, some of you may have read about my adventures with Couchbase in the Lounge thread.
What I'm searching for is some kind of synchronization solution between a central database and remote clients which may not have reliable connections. Realtime sync / events would be great as would be proper access controls. Oh, and it needs to support self-hosting - I want to avoid GDPR issues as good as possible so cloud solutions are a bit of a problem. Not to mention that self-hosting also means that I can pin the versions on both client and server. Cloud solutions can be a bit of a moving target. Oh, and it should offer C# / .NET.
Now, here's what I already found:
- Firebase. Fulfills all criteria except for the hosted solution. Also, it's Google.
- Mongo Sync (or whatever it's called). Hosted solution, also on the pricy side.
- Couchbase. Almost good but there's an issue with the access controls.
- Supabase. API is very sane, I also like their approach of "Not reinventing the wheel" (which means that instead of NoSQL like the rest, they're using PostgreSQL). Snags: There's no offline capabilities.
- ObjectBox. Also looks good but they only offer a C++/C target which would make using that in C# a bit of a pain.
Anyone else know of an offering which may or may not hit my requirements?
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@Rhywden said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
Okay, some of you may have read about my adventures with Couchbase in the Lounge thread.
Link? Sounds interesting.
A few years ago I'd suggest looking into Microsoft's enterprise portfolio, but I'm not sure how cloudy they're nowadays.
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@Gustav said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
@Rhywden said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
Okay, some of you may have read about my adventures with Couchbase in the Lounge thread.
Link? Sounds interesting.
A few years ago I'd suggest looking into Microsoft's enterprise portfolio, but I'm not sure how cloudy they're nowadays.
Couchbase: Best NoSQL Cloud Database Service
Couchbase is the NoSQL cloud database platform for business-critical and AI-powered applications. Uncompromised speed, versatility, affordability, and ease of use for building modern, AI-powered applications. ✓ Learn more.
Oh, yes, I forgot Azure. But they have the same problem as Firebase, namely the GDPR thing and the only cloud requirement
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@Rhywden I meant the thread where you described your "adventures".
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@Gustav said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
@Rhywden I meant the thread where you described your "adventures".
That's in the Lounge. Don't you have access to that?
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@Rhywden access to what? Just how many hidden categories do you guys have? There's like 10 of you around here!
How do I get access to that Lounge thing? It's not in the groups.
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@Gustav said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
@Rhywden access to what? Just how many hidden categories do you guys have? There's like 10 of you around here!
Ah, sorry. The Lounge is a special category which is supposed to be the opposite to the Garage - namely a category where you can talk a bit more open about work-related stuff without it ending up all over the public search engines. The discussions there are also supposed to be a bit more constrained.
You'll need to ask one of the mods to give you access (depends on whether you're deemed worthy of this Noble Priviledge).
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@Rhywden said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
You'll need to ask one of the mods to give you access (depends on whether you're deemed worthy of this Noble Priviledge).
Okay.
@lounge-mods can I?
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@Gustav I think you need to join this group: https://what.thedailywtf.com/groups/trust_level_3
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@error said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
@Gustav I think you need to join this group: https://what.thedailywtf.com/groups/trust_level_3
Isn't that automated via the Likes Thread?
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@Rhywden said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
You'll need to ask one of the mods to give you access
You may hit the
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@Gribnit said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
@error said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
@Gustav I think you need to join this group: https://what.thedailywtf.com/groups/trust_level_3
Isn't that automated via the Likes Thread?
Not since we migrated off Dicksores.
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@Rhywden said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
Oh, yes, I forgot Azure. But they have the same problem as Firebase, namely the GDPR thing and the only cloud requirement
Would (the Hamburg interpretation of) the GDPR be satisfied by requiring hosting in the EU and encrypting the data at rest? The big cloud providers all have EU zones for technical as well as legal reasons (data movement is very expensive at scale) and encryption would stop random trawls from getting it; someone would need to attack your active service VM to get the decryption keys.
State-level actors (especially ones outside Germany) are probably not going to care much about personal data of your high-school students. The ones who care will have legal routes to get it. You're defending against criminals, not spooks.
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@dkf said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
@Rhywden said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
Oh, yes, I forgot Azure. But they have the same problem as Firebase, namely the GDPR thing and the only cloud requirement
Would (the Hamburg interpretation of) the GDPR be satisfied by requiring hosting in the EU and encrypting the data at rest? The big cloud providers all have EU zones for technical as well as legal reasons (data movement is very expensive at scale) and encryption would stop random trawls from getting it; someone would need to attack your active service VM to get the decryption keys.
State-level actors (especially ones outside Germany) are probably not going to care much about personal data of your high-school students. The ones who care will have legal routes to get it. You're defending against criminals, not spooks.
Encrypting the data at rest would be moderately annoying to do and that thing with the EU zones is not quite settled.
GDPR also does not make a distinction between "highly interesting data" and "uninteresting data". As soon as it's personal, it's subject to it.
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@Rhywden said in Searching for some kind of Firebase-alike:
Encrypting the data at rest would be moderately annoying to do and that thing with the EU zones is not quite settled.
Some databases have the capability to keep their data encrypted. Don't know much about the details.
The bit with the zones depends on their exact legal status. I remember it as being complicated, but I've not had to bother much with it for the past few years (as I'm dealing with a necessarily on-premises project; it needs hardware not available in normal cloud providers).
GDPR also does not make a distinction between "highly interesting data" and "uninteresting data". As soon as it's personal, it's subject to it.
But the level of effort you need to spend on protecting the data does depend on it. The important thing is not to actually leak the data, but minimising resource spend on defending against the fantastically unlikely seems reasonable too.
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@dkf Well, there's another aspect I forgot to mention which makes the whole Cloud thing a no-go: Their way of fees. They're often highly variable and also rely on the other side having a credit card.
As schools are notoriously limited in their funds, not knowing exactly which fees will be incurred the next month is a headache. Yes, I know, you can set upper limits but again, a different amount every month is problematic.
Also, schools don't get business credit cards.
Self-hosting solves all those problems instantly.
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@Rhywden https://zumero.com/
I've never used it though
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@slapout1 Yeah, well, looks nice until you stumble across this:
Neither PhoneGap nor Windows 8 (they actually mean Windows 8 for mobile phones!) still exist. If they can't even be bothered to update the features page just one page behind the landing page...
Plus, last version update is from last March last year. They're also still talking about Xamarin which is now definitely EOL.
