RPG: The End War (OOC thread)
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@Jaloopa @PleegWat @HardwareGeek @PotatoEngineer @Gąska @Vault_Dweller Welcome to The End War. Everyone has their characters set up. Shall we get started?
Session Zero
As I understand it, the purpose of Session Zero is to establish some basic ground rules and tone expectations for the campaign. A lot of that's already happened in the other thread: basic concept has been presented, we know that certain races don't exist here, we'll be using Roll20 for combat, and so on.
WRT social interactions, I prefer to operate on the "be reasonable" rule. We're all here to have fun. Characters can do things that other characters wouldn't like, if they have a good reason IC to do so. But players griefing other players is a good way to draw the DM's wrath. Gremlining and murderhobo-ing will not be tolerated. Let's try to keep this enjoyable, for ourselves and each other.
Does anyone have any questions about details or rules that need to be resolved before we get started?
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@Mason_Wheeler So far, I have only been able to view (and edit) my own character sheet. Can you release everyone's character sheets (read only), if only to the other players?
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@PleegWat Good idea. Done.
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Expectations for turn lengths? How long before the DM just takes over and has the character attack or whatever?
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@Jaloopa That's tricky. In the general spirit of "be reasonable," we want combat (and gameplay in general) to move relatively quickly and not get bogged down waiting on people. But we do have players living in widely different timezones, with different sleeping schedules, etc. So I'm going to say, try to respond in a timely fashion, particularly if it's your turn in combat, and if you take more than about 10 hours or so I'll move for you. If slowness becomes a chronic issue for a certain player, I'll discuss it with them.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PleegWat Good idea. Done.
That just got me the Bio & Info tab, not the actual sheets. Which is fine but means we'll have to populate that tab (some of us didn't).
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
murderhobo
What if you're roleplaying as a sociopath?
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@error said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
murderhobo
What if you're roleplaying as a sociopath?
I tried this one time, with a character called Cidal, a priest of Eryth-Null. They died in, 1.5 sessions iirc.
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@error said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
murderhobo
What if you're roleplaying as a sociopath?
I think this is wonderfully done in Undertale. If you play through that game in typical JRPG fashion, killing everything in your path, everyone will treat you like the monster you are.
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@error said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
murderhobo
What if you're roleplaying as a sociopath?
Expect the world to treat you like one.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@error said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
murderhobo
What if you're roleplaying as a sociopath?
Expect the world to treat you like one.
TDWTF Plays Undertale!
Anyhow, since your RP scenario is apocalyptic, there's a common conception that morality starts to decay along with society. See The Walking Dead, Mad Max, et al.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@error said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
murderhobo
What if you're roleplaying as a sociopath?
Expect the world to treat you like one.
The world'll give you a great job, doing what you like, and ask you to teach others?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
Welcome to The End War. Everyone has their characters set up. Shall we get started?
My main question, which I was going to ask when the
got out of the way, was when this was going to happen. You've pretty much answered that. Also, I take this to mean you're satisfied with the tentative transgression I suggested.I'd suggest presenting us with the initial conditions (where we are, how long we've been in the army unit together — i.e., how well we know each other, any NPCs we already know — e.g., our superior officer(s), etc.), and then we'll have a better idea what clarifying questions we need to ask.
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@error said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
murderhobo
What if you're roleplaying as a sociopath?
"That's what my character would do" is classic murderhobo/gremlin, when applied to sociopaths. Gremhobo. Murderlin. (See also: My Guy Syndrome.) It's also a good way to get the rest of the party to collectively murder/abandon you.
Speaking of which, how much PvP are we talking? I'd rather keep it down to either zero or a reasonably-low level.
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@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
Speaking of which, how much PvP are we talking? I'd rather keep it down to either zero or a reasonably-low level.
So would I. It's not cause for instant smiting, but backstabbing your teammates for no good reason is a good way to accumulate some bad karma on your character's head rather quickly.
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@PotatoEngineer Since most of us are an army unit whose lives depend on cooperation and trust with each other, I'd say that (apart from (mostly) harmless pranks and practical jokes), there should be zero PvP between the soldiers. IDK what the DM has in mind for the paladin who's not (yet) a member of our party.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PleegWat Good idea. Done.
I haven't used roll20 before, and I'm not seeing an obvious way to see the other players' info. How do I do that?
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@HardwareGeek I am that paladin, and I will not be playing Lawful Stupid. Nor Paladin-With-A-Stick-Up-His-Ass. 5E paladins, thankfully, don't have that godawful "must only associate with Lawful Good people" requirement, and are not required to be the moral compass of the party.
There's a reasonable chance I will be the moral compass of the party for some dilemmas, due to background, but it's not god-required and I won't be at risk of Falling, so there's a limit to how far I'll push it.
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@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
5E paladins, thankfully, don't have that godawful "must only associate with Lawful Good people" requirement
That's good, because (for a change) my character isn't Lawful Good. But what I meant was whether the DM plans for there to be conflict with the party before (I assume) eventually joining it.
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@HardwareGeek No, his character is meant to come into contact with the party pretty quickly and join up (hopefully) without too much friction.
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@error said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@error said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
murderhobo
What if you're roleplaying as a sociopath?
I think this is wonderfully done in Undertale. If you play through that game in typical JRPG fashion, killing everything in your path
That's not typical JRPG fashion, that's just you.
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@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
Nor Paladin-With-A-Stick-Up-His-Ass.
Aww, come on, the unbearable aura of self-righteousness is the best thing about paladins.
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@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
Nor Paladin-With-A-Stick-Up-His-Ass.
Aww, come on, the unbearable aura of self-righteousness is the best thing about paladins.
It's funny for a session or six, but it gets so old after a while.
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@HardwareGeek said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
I'd suggest presenting us with the initial conditions (where we are, how long we've been in the army unit together — i.e., how well we know each other, any NPCs we already know — e.g., our superior officer(s), etc.), and then we'll have a better idea what clarifying questions we need to ask.
I'm not sure how this usually works, but I guess we also need to get some feel for how well we already know each other.
@HardwareGeek said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
I haven't used roll20 before, and I'm not seeing an obvious way to see the other players' info. How do I do that?
You go to the journal tab (where you found your own character info). You can now also see everyone else's character, though you can only see the Bio & Info tab. You cannot see the character sheet. Hence either we should fill that in with at least some basic info, as I did for Jillian, or mason has to look at his permission flags again.
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@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
Nor Paladin-With-A-Stick-Up-His-Ass.
Aww, come on, the unbearable aura of self-righteousness is the best thing about paladins.
It's funny for a session or six, but it gets so old after a while.
Suit yourself. I'm going to play the part of the village idiot as long as the DM lets me.
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After a bit of checking, it seems that it's a long-running issue with Roll20 that you can't see the actual character sheet portion of another character unless you have edit rights to that character.
And the Roll20 folks know about it and don't seem to think there's a problem with that.
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@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
Nor Paladin-With-A-Stick-Up-His-Ass.
Aww, come on, the unbearable aura of self-righteousness is the best thing about paladins.
It's funny for a session or six, but it gets so old after a while.
Suit yourself. I'm going to play the part of the village idiot as long as the DM lets me.
This is most likely related to the reason why your character no longer resides in his village...
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
After a bit of checking, it seems that it's a long-running issue with Roll20 that you can't see the actual character sheet portion of another character unless you have edit rights to that character.
And the Roll20 folks know about it and don't seem to think there's a problem with that. Why am I getting flashbacks?
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@Mason_Wheeler
indeed. So what now? Back to google sheets? Or manually copy all the key info to the other tab which we can all see?
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@PleegWat Good question. Let me do a bit more checking.
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@Mason_Wheeler Additional consideration: there may be observers who are also interested in knowing our characters, and I don't think they can view roll20 at all.
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@PleegWat said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
You go to the journal tab (where you found your own character info). You can now also see everyone else's character, though you can only see the Bio & Info tab.
Ah; seems there was a problem with my session. I had to refresh to see them. Also missing a lot of recent chat.
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Stupid broken oneboxing...
This is my bug report/Roll20-dev-chastisement on the subject.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PleegWat Good question. Let me do a bit more checking.
I rather like D&D Beyond. Character sheets are public (read-only, of course), and some of the stat handling seems a little more automated than roll20 (e.g., click "long rest" and it resets all the HP, spell slots, etc. automatically). Downside: Supplemental materials and advanced parts of the PHB are only available if you've purchased those materials through D&D Beyond — if you have paper copies or PDFs, they don't count. OTOH, if anyone in the campaign has the relevant materials, everyone in the campaign has access to them. I know one forum member has everything; he might be willing to join the campaign just for the purposes of the materials, even if he's not interested in actually playing.
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@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PotatoEngineer said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
Nor Paladin-With-A-Stick-Up-His-Ass.
Aww, come on, the unbearable aura of self-righteousness is the best thing about paladins.
It's funny for a session or six, but it gets so old after a while.
Suit yourself. I'm going to play the part of the village idiot as long as the DM lets me.
młody autokefaliczny prawosławny Kościół prawosławny, w ścisłej modlitewnej komunii ze starszą siostrą Kościołem rosyjskim i wzmocniony swymi świętymi modlitwami, przezwycięży wszelkie trudności i trudności
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Yeah, I think I haven't mentioned it but I meant to say earlier that we should wait for @apapadimoulis to re-add RPG categories before starting the game, so that we can set up proper access permissions as to prevent non-players from posting in game threads (both IC and OOC). Mostly because I don't trust @Gribnit to honor the gentlemen's agreement not to post in them.
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@Gąska or @boomzilla, who seems to be a bit more responsive at the moment,
notwithstanding.
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@Mason_Wheeler I think @Gąska's the most active here between them.
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska or @boomzilla, who seems to be a bit more responsive at the moment,
notwithstanding.@boomzilla explicitly said he's not going to restore them without our dear leader's approval.
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@apapadimoulis is the all-powerful dictator, and I'm not sure how much of that power he has delegated again since the ... events. I haven't really been following the situation, since most of that discussion moved into restricted threads, but @boomzilla may not have the power. Edit: Oh, yeah, @Gąska's right; he did say he could but wouldn't.
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@Mason_Wheeler I don't disagree his usecase is valid. But so's ours. Surely distinguishing between view on just info and view on both info and sheet isn't too difficult?
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@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
After a bit of checking, it seems that it's a long-running issue with Roll20 that you can't see the actual character sheet portion of another character unless you have edit rights to that character.
And the Roll20 folks know about it and don't seem to think there's a problem with that. In the Roll20 games I've played, it was with people I trusted, so we all got full rights to everyone else's characters. But I agree it's complete
to not have read vs. full permission granularity in Roll20. (It wouldn't surprise me if going to granular permissions would require a significant rewrite, which is why they're so resistant.)
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@PotatoEngineer Probably. Even his usecase suggests partial read access on the sheet, with only spells/abilities/features/etc which the party has seen/heard about being included.
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@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska or @boomzilla, who seems to be a bit more responsive at the moment,
notwithstanding.@boomzilla explicitly said he's not going to restore them without our dear leader's approval.
I sent him an email.
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@PleegWat said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@PotatoEngineer Probably. Even his usecase suggests partial read access on the sheet, with only spells/abilities/features/etc which the party has seen/heard about being included.
That would be a pain to implement. But I suspect the real flaw in Roll20 is how the plugins are set up. I'm making gobs of edits in the "Character sheet" tab without ever clicking the "edit" button on the sheet, because the plugin is taking care of all the writes for me. If there was a read/full permission split, then every plugin is going to start getting errors on the writes it does, which may or may not be handled elegantly.
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@PotatoEngineer Yeah, and at some point you're just overly making assumptions about the architecture of the system.
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@boomzilla said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska or @boomzilla, who seems to be a bit more responsive at the moment,
notwithstanding.@boomzilla explicitly said he's not going to restore them without our dear leader's approval.
I sent him an email.
You should probably lie down for a bit.
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@Gribnit said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@boomzilla said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska or @boomzilla, who seems to be a bit more responsive at the moment,
notwithstanding.@boomzilla explicitly said he's not going to restore them without our dear leader's approval.
I sent him an email.
You should probably lie down for a bit.
Yeah, I usually need a good rest after I put in a hard eight minutes-- Hours. I meant hours!
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@Gribnit said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@boomzilla said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Mason_Wheeler said in RPG: The End War (OOC thread):
@Gąska or @boomzilla, who seems to be a bit more responsive at the moment,
notwithstanding.@boomzilla explicitly said he's not going to restore them without our dear leader's approval.
I sent him an email.
You should probably lie down for a bit.
