Intel is the jealous ex
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Intel is really not handling the breakup with Apple well. They pile on more and more in their trashing of the M1 Macs. First with
benchmarksreal world usage, then by hiring the "I'm a Mac" guy to talk about how good not-Macs are and now by launching an entire site designed to trash Apple. Again with the "real-world usage" that are totally not benchmarks, because benchmarks are bad. Seriously, Intel needs to fire their entire PR department because they are driving more and more people away from Intel at this point.
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Many Apple M1 claims don’t translate to real-world usage and appear questionable.
It’s like ten thousand watts when all you need is x86.
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It’s just more of the same of last time: lots of claims that aren’t generally related to the processor but to the computer as a whole, or to the software running on it (and, of course, ignoring the fact that any developer who wants to, can make an M1 version anyway).
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@Gurth said in Intel is the jealous ex:
It’s just more of the same of last time: lots of claims that aren’t generally related to the processor but to the computer as a whole, or to the software running on it (and, of course, ignoring the fact that any developer who wants to, can make an M1 version anyway).
Your use of an implied
competentdisturbs me.
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Need to make a deeper analysis of this.
Form Factor Choice vs Extra Devices and Gear Required
That... doesn't even make sense from a comparison standpoint. Yes, you have a larger selection of form factors on PC due to a larger selection of computers, but as far as extra devices and gear goes it's pretty much the same on both sides.Full Screen Touch vs Touch Bar Only
So here we're doing sitationally useful feature A vs situationally useful feature B. And both are not supported by all devices. I have a Mac with Touch Bar and my use of it is limited, and I could as well do with a regular row of F-keys. And touch on a PC is just a great way to get smudges all over the screen anyway.Multi-4K Display Support vs Singular External Display Only
Well, that's one win I guess, for people who connect more than one monitor to their laptop. And I would assume the later Macs with stronger grapics hardware would fix that problem anyway.External Device Support vs Limited Device Support
What are they even comparing here? It's not like every external device will work on either system as it is all dependant on driver support. Something neither company has control over.Hundres of Games vs Limited Games
I think you can run "hundreds of games" on an M1 Mac too, as right now any 64-bit macOS game will work on M1 too. But yeah, this is not news to anyone. Mac has never been a choice for a serious gamer! Also, Intel, isn't a certain other company starting on A beating you on gaming performance nowadays anyway?
Nearly Limitless Creation Applications vs Limited Creation Applications
Another of the "Duh" points. Mac has less software available thanks to having a smaller marketshare! But it's not like Mac is lacking in creation application either, as it has been having stronger support in that area compared to others.So what have we learnt from there 6 points? Nothing that nobody already knew and that nothing has really changed in any way from Apple going M1 as most of this was true when Apple was all Intel too. Also, all of the points for PC that Intel are showing would also be solved by a system running AMD as it's nothing Intel-specific here.
Then Intel wants us to "see the difference" by showing of an extremely niche computer with an Asus ZenBook Duo. Also, 2-in-1 PCs where most comments I have seen from people who bought them are that they are extremely clunky as tablets and most just leave them constantly docked in laptop mode. And that Windows 10 is... not fun to use in touch mode.
Somethig interesting under Dig into Data too. Intel claims they were using "native versions of Adobe Premier[sic] Pro", but Adobe has not released a native M1 version of Premiere yet. Just Lightroom and Photoshop this far. So, uh, I dunno where Intel managed to get that native version they tested with...
And then Intel borrows Jensen Huang's "Everything Just Works
" and tell us that ALL THE APPS will run on a PC and that macOS is a walled garden, both statements which are false. If I, as the user, wants to run Logic Pro X, will that run on a PC? Nope! Can I install whatever I want on a Mac without Apple blocking it? Yep! Also, still something that neither Intel nor Apple has any control over as it's the software vendor that decides what systems to support. And seeing as the M1 is brand new, of course native support will be limited at the start.But yeah, all this just reeks of desperation from a company who has been curbstomped by its competition and abandoned by a major business partner. That instead of focusing on what makes the own product good and the advantages it has, it's all trashing the competition and coming up with bullshit reasons as to why tests made by others are flawed and only tests made by Intel are "real". All this does is make me think that "If Intel is being THIS desperate to trash Apple, the M1 must be really amazing." Looking at the Intel 11th gen overall, it looks like a company that has flat out given up on competing, because they got nothing to compete with. It's at best a minor speed bump and at worst a step back from gen 10. And just more of the same old at that. I don't see Intel trashing Microsoft for also dabbling in ARM computers. Or any other PC manufacturer with them. Maybe because Apple has the track record of taking things others have tried and doing them right.
Also, this is awfully similar to the PPC-to-Intel transition. Apple wanted less power hungry and more efficient devices. IBM could not deliver. Intel could. And now it's the same thing. Apple wants to keep pushing less power hungry and more efficient. Intel cannot deliver. Apples in-house CPU tech has matured to the point where Apple feels ready to put it in their computers instead of just their handheld devices. Why not take that step, then?
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Stupid PR on both sides aside, Intel is rightly running scared to some degree. However, I doubt we will see a mass exodus from non-Mac to Mac hardware just because of the M1. Some might switch, but they were likely on the fence already. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that going Mac isn't about perf, it's about buying into the Apple ecosystem and all the crap that gets forced down your throat with it.
But what's happening elsewhere is that people are looking at the M1 chips and thinking that maybe that high-end ARM chips are a reasonable alternative. Large clusters for HPC are are (especially on the larger end) already less bound to specific architectures (i.e., there are enough non x86 ones out there to require people to be somewhat portable), and they do care about perf and perhaps moreso perf/energy. #1 is already ARM. Out of the top 10, only two rely on x86 purely for crunching, all others have either non-x86, GPUs or both. Apple going ARM is giving that a lot of extra visibility.
Unfortunately, on the consumer side, it's pretty much MS that needs to get on the ball, since there's little chance of getting good consumer level ARM chips otherwise. (Other than the various ARM devices that you can run linux, that have been around for years.) Here's hoping for that.
As an aside, I like the touch+pen capabilities of the multi-purpose labptop/tablet hybrids. Only need to carry around one device, and for serious work, it's going to be a desktop either way.
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@cvi MS does have the Surface Pro X this far. Hopefully we can see some more options than just the 13" tablet/2-in-1. But yeah, methinks they need to try and push Windows on ARM more, and fix the x86-to-ARM emulation to be at least Rosetta 2 quality.
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@Atazhaia They have had a few different products, but none were ever especially lauded for great performance. That might be down to PR to some degree. But the products (including the Pro X) are all souped up phone/tablet SOCs.
fix the x86-to-ARM emulation to be at least Rosetta 2 quality.
And, yes, this.
Hey, at least it should be fairly easy to get the Linux on Windows subsystem ported to ARM natively.
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@cvi said in Intel is the jealous ex:
They have had a few different products, but none were ever especially lauded for great performance.
Where was that video I watched a while ago? Oh yeah:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhESSZIXvCA
Performance is probably not stellar if the test runs faster in a VM on another machine with fairly comparable specs.
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@Atazhaia said in Intel is the jealous ex:
driving more and more people away from Intel
Not possible. Every user is locked into a platform and the platform chooses the vendors. Plenty of people wanted to stay with the 680x0 family. They had no choice. Some people probably wanted to stay with PowerPC (Stockholm Syndrome is a very powerful thing); they had no choice either. The only thing driving people away from Intel is Apple. It may be a good thing, especially in the light of grievances such as this; but no one is in a position to choose a processor vendor, except maybe as between Intel and AMD, and not even that in the Apple ecosystem.
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@Gurth Extra sad is the fact that for about the same price as a Surface Pro X + keyboard I can get a maxed out M1 MacBook Pro. Not the Air, but the Pro. With 2TB storage compared to the 512GB on the Surface. A maxed out Air with the same 2TB storage would be ~$300 cheaper.
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And now Intel wants to be friends again...
After Anti-M1 Ads, Intel Wants to Make Future Apple Silicon Chips
Apple in November started releasing Macs with Apple-designed M1 chips, and the Apple silicon technology will eventually replace all the Intel chips...
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@Atazhaia said in Intel is the jealous ex:
And now Intel wants to be friends again...
That's the pattern of someone who's not just jealous but outright abusive. Unfortunately for them, I suspect that Apple aren't interested in playing the battered partner.
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@dkf said in Intel is the jealous ex:
@Atazhaia said in Intel is the jealous ex:
And now Intel wants to be friends again...
That's the pattern of someone who's not just jealous but outright abusive. Unfortunately for them, I suspect that Apple aren't interested in playing the battered partner.
y'never know with some kinks
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@dkf said in Intel is the jealous ex:
@Atazhaia said in Intel is the jealous ex:
And now Intel wants to be friends again...
That's the pattern of someone who's not just jealous but outright abusive. Unfortunately for them, I suspect that Apple aren't interested in playing the battered partner.
They sure are. It's just there's no reason for them to do so right now - Intel's chips aren't superior enough to their in-house solution for it to make business sense. Companies don't have feelings,
they only have profitsprofit is all that matters.
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It does kind of make me wonder what went on behind the scenes for the last several years. I mean, it’s not like Intel couldn’t see this coming — ARM-related things have been found buried in macOS for the last several major releases, for example, and at the point where Apple was putting their own chips into iPhones and iPads, it’s not a great leap of the imagination to think they’re bound to eventually do the same for Macs. So at some point, surely there must have been talks between Intel and Apple about this? Which, I imagine, saw Intel trying to keep Apple as a customer but not offering a good enough solution to Apple’s problems.
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@Frank-Wilhoit Well those G5/Cell/POWER5 chips were pretty dominant at floating point for a few years..
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@dkf said in Intel is the jealous ex:
@Atazhaia said in Intel is the jealous ex:
And now Intel wants to be friends again...
That's the pattern of someone who's not just jealous but outright abusive. Unfortunately for them, I suspect that Apple aren't interested in playing the battered partner.
They're the ones who've been the batterers for a decade and more...
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@Gurth said in Intel is the jealous ex:
It does kind of make me wonder what went on behind the scenes for the last several years.
The big problem was that Intel made a massive bet on a novel way of shrinking the feature size of chips (something with cobalt, IIRC) and it hugely didn't work out. I believe it was something like having the conductors in chips cracking away from gates due to thermal stresses. The result was abysmal yields. This was compounded massively by management being not technical enough to swallow their pride and license the tech that TSMC are currently using, preferring instead to double down on their problems for a few years. The result has made Intel's high-end manufacturing capacity irrelevant in many ways. Their chip designers have done the best they can, but they're totally hobbled without the smaller feature sizes (that parameter affects many other key design parameters).
They're trying to turn things around now, but the lead time on a process-technology switch is quite long, and competitors (AMD, Apple, etc.) are at a strong advantage. (The scuttlebutt on the topic has been fun to read in the more technical press.)
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@dkf said in Intel is the jealous ex:
preferring instead to double down on their problems for a few years.
What's wrong with that? I mean, accepting change in any form is a sign of weakness. And some of the biggest names in the industry have doubled down for a few years - DEC, Zenith, Magnavox...
Might be a good time to think of some 4-syllable jokes that scan right tho, yeah. ABAC is pretty limiting for an internal rhyme structure, but I have faith.
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